Yeah it is. I’d be happy to do a head-to-head with my black label if it’s indeed a red label.
ZMF Pendant by Ampsandsound; impressions, tube-rolling, and general discussions
- Thread starter KPzypher
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Oh yeah, red label has landed! Gonna let it burn in and see what all the fuss is about...
Nice... cool to have both flavors
Yes! I'm glad to have both.
Some initial impressions: I'm already hearing some differences. Very similar tonal presentations, detail, extension, all of that, but these red labels, man do they pack a punch! The black label I have sounds more laid back, detached, and somehow "slow" (in the best possible sense). Not these. They're aggressive, bold, with a ton of dynamism and stage. No harshness at all. All this without burn in...I'll report back again after a few days.
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Pretty much exactly what I'm hearing
@tholt Does your red label have any hiss to it? Mine definitely does, more towards the right channel, but not in only one side, and after about 50 hours of burn in. I'm gonna keep burning it in and hope for the best, but it makes me think if the tube just has too much gain for my amp or something.
I am perceiving a slight amount of hiss on the L channel. It's quite slight, but if I'm listening for it it's there. This is from the high Z output on pretty sensitive headphones. Moving to the low Z output it's less, and with planars on low Z output I can't hear it at all.
I swapped power tubes just to rule that out -- the hiss remains. I haven't tried a different rectifier.
I presume this isn't happening with your black label? As far as gain goes, I am assuming the black and red labels have the same, so if your black label is quiet I would think the red should be too?
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shwnwllms
1000+ Head-Fier
The black labels I have are dead quiet. Black labels are older than red labels but red labels should not have a hiss to them. Black labels (military spec) are a tighter spec than red label (medical grade) but either should have the blackest of backgrounds and should be dead silent. These red labels are a new batch so that may be part of it. (The black labels that a few of us got in January were the last dozen or so he had on hand and was in the process of getting more in) I would let them burn in for a bit and if they don’t even out I would contact Vuong for a replacement.
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Yeah the black labels are dead quiet. I reached out to Vuong already and he just said to burn them in, so I’ll continue to do so.
I’m not sure if asking for a replacement is the smartest thing to do since 2 out of 2 tubes from this batch seem to have a slight hiss. Maybe it’s the difference in application of the tubes, or perhaps just how the red labels interact with this amp.
Interesting and good to know. Glad you reached out to him, at least he's aware. I guess I'm always used to a bit of noise from this amp, be it slight hiss or hum, just figure it's part of the tube game. But since they are supposed to be dead quiet I'll monitor it as it burns in. Perhaps exchanging may be an option if it gets to it.
How much hiss would you say yours has? I'd say mine is slight. Audible but not pronounced nor distracting.
Haha this is an attitude I should adopt myself!
It's pretty noticeable on quieter tracks for me, but all my headphones are pretty sensitive and I use them exclusively on the high gain. With my HD 8XX for example, I can go an entire movie without noticing it, but on a softer guitar solo track, it's obviously there in the background. Listening to rock music it's completely inaudible (and by the way, the Aeolus is the most enjoyable I've EVER heard it with this tube), so I might even just keep it, hiss and all, for my "rocking out" sessions with this amp.
The hissing sound reminds me of what I get from my Emptoiva BasX A-100 with jumpers installed. I think it's a high gain thing. When you hear how much more dynamic and explosive this tube is vs the black label, it may not be a stretch to think it's not microphonics of the tube we're hearing, it's just a lot more power.
I've never had a dead quiet tube amp that I can recall. I've had quiet tube preamps, but from what I remember all A&S amps I've had (SE-84, Mogwai SE and this one) had a hint of tube hiss and/or very slight transformer hum. Nothing worth really noting and nothing that got in the way of any genre or volume of music
Hmm. My hiss is not as noticeable as it sounds like yours is. If you hadn't asked, I may not have even zeroed in on it. So far this tube is incredible. Impressive in all areas. The way it sorts busy passages, layering and its staging presentation are super impressive. No harshness, nice deep bass. I'll burn it in still, but it's definitely superior to my first G73-R.
Well, wouldn't you know it, I took out my "burn in tubes" and plugged back in my main power and rectifier tubes, and the hiss is almost completely silent! Guess the burn in did the trick. As did leaving the amp off for a while after 50+ hours of burn in lol
Yeah this tube is awesome. Now that I have some silence in my system I'll find a time later this week for an attempt at a head-to-head. Both are just fantastic tubes, but I do think this one has a bit more of that exhilarating factor to it. Pairing it with the Valvo's certainly enhances that.
Alright, I was able to get some listening in tonight so here are my impressions, which I'm sure will change and eveolve the more time I get to compare these two.
First of all, the changes are VERY subtle. They're both G73-R tubes, both amazing, but one leans into one direction while the other into a slightly different direction. Also keep in mind that my black label is much more played in, so that could be a factor. I used my Auteur Classics for the comparison, as they're the headphones I listen to the most.
Ok so what I'm hearing from the red label: more bass level and impact, slightly more precise imaging, a little more "shine" (not really emphasis) on the treble region, and a slightly enhanced sense of space and separation. It's subtle. To me it just gives me this impression overall. Things are spaced apart better, each element more easily identified and delineated, and there's this sense of subtle vibrancy to everything that's not quite treble elevation, yet it's noticeable and quite beautiful. The center image is likewise more precise, which is something I look for.
By contract, the black label is more cohesive, smooth, and with a more intimate midrange and slightly slower sound. The edges of instruments are more blurred as a result, less defined. It's laid back in comparison, though if you know these G73-R tubes, you know how damned dynamic they are. The black label is just ever so slightly less so than the red label. I think @4LoveOfSound said something like "it slows down the music enough to pick apart every detail." That's such a fantastic way to put what the black label G73-R does into words. It's also dead silent. I'm still getting a level of hiss from the red label, though it's subtle...especially with my bedroom window open lol
I can't pick a winner. I like the red label for the engagement and space, and the black label for the blackness of background, smoothness, and cohesion. I'll probably be sticking with the red label for a while (unless I ask Vuong for a hiss free tube) since it's the new sound. I also find myself wanting more "engagement" these days, so the red label fits the bill big time. I hope you all get to try one!
First of all, the changes are VERY subtle. They're both G73-R tubes, both amazing, but one leans into one direction while the other into a slightly different direction. Also keep in mind that my black label is much more played in, so that could be a factor. I used my Auteur Classics for the comparison, as they're the headphones I listen to the most.
Ok so what I'm hearing from the red label: more bass level and impact, slightly more precise imaging, a little more "shine" (not really emphasis) on the treble region, and a slightly enhanced sense of space and separation. It's subtle. To me it just gives me this impression overall. Things are spaced apart better, each element more easily identified and delineated, and there's this sense of subtle vibrancy to everything that's not quite treble elevation, yet it's noticeable and quite beautiful. The center image is likewise more precise, which is something I look for.
By contract, the black label is more cohesive, smooth, and with a more intimate midrange and slightly slower sound. The edges of instruments are more blurred as a result, less defined. It's laid back in comparison, though if you know these G73-R tubes, you know how damned dynamic they are. The black label is just ever so slightly less so than the red label. I think @4LoveOfSound said something like "it slows down the music enough to pick apart every detail." That's such a fantastic way to put what the black label G73-R does into words. It's also dead silent. I'm still getting a level of hiss from the red label, though it's subtle...especially with my bedroom window open lol
I can't pick a winner. I like the red label for the engagement and space, and the black label for the blackness of background, smoothness, and cohesion. I'll probably be sticking with the red label for a while (unless I ask Vuong for a hiss free tube) since it's the new sound. I also find myself wanting more "engagement" these days, so the red label fits the bill big time. I hope you all get to try one!
4LoveOfSound
500+ Head-Fier
Nice comparison! Maybe someday, I'm still watching the auctions! It's kind of funny. You can pretty much describe the differences between the ZMF VO and AO in the same way! The VO would be the red label and the AO would be the black label. Just like you say you can't pick a winner, I can't pick a winner between the two headphones.Alright, I was able to get some listening in tonight so here are my impressions, which I'm sure will change and eveolve the more time I get to compare these two.
First of all, the changes are VERY subtle. They're both G73-R tubes, both amazing, but one leans into one direction while the other into a slightly different direction. Also keep in mind that my black label is much more played in, so that could be a factor. I used my Auteur Classics for the comparison, as they're the headphones I listen to the most.
Ok so what I'm hearing from the red label: more bass level and impact, slightly more precise imaging, a little more "shine" (not really emphasis) on the treble region, and a slightly enhanced sense of space and separation. It's subtle. To me it just gives me this impression overall. Things are spaced apart better, each element more easily identified and delineated, and there's this sense of subtle vibrancy to everything that's not quite treble elevation, yet it's noticeable and quite beautiful. The center image is likewise more precise, which is something I look for.
By contract, the black label is more cohesive, smooth, and with a more intimate midrange and slightly slower sound. The edges of instruments are more blurred as a result, less defined. It's laid back in comparison, though if you know these G73-R tubes, you know how damned dynamic they are. The black label is just ever so slightly less so than the red label. I think @4LoveOfSound said something like "it slows down the music enough to pick apart every detail." That's such a fantastic way to put what the black label G73-R does into words. It's also dead silent. I'm still getting a level of hiss from the red label, though it's subtle...especially with my bedroom window open lol
I can't pick a winner. I like the red label for the engagement and space, and the black label for the blackness of background, smoothness, and cohesion. I'll probably be sticking with the red label for a while (unless I ask Vuong for a hiss free tube) since it's the new sound. I also find myself wanting more "engagement" these days, so the red label fits the bill big time. I hope you all get to try one!
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