ZMF Caldera Closed

[dguitarnut]

Leaving pads and meshes alone till full burn in.
For you folks with both CC and CO do you adjust volumes when comparing?

 

[idairyou]

Leaving pads and meshes alone till full burn in.
For you folks with both CC and CO do you adjust volumes when comparing?

It takes about 150 hours of burn in on the CC.

The CC takes a few more ticks on the volume dial to equalize with the CO. On the Bliss the CO I take to maybe -17 on some tracks, and on the CC I will be at -15.

I didn’t get along with my AC’s either……..after I getting the CO I’m starting to suspect you are right . But I will give it the full burn in as I just love the aesthetics. What amazes me about the CO is the 3D expansive stage which hasn’t materialized yet in the CC. Patience patience patience.

On the CC or the AC, you're not going to get same expansive soundstage as their open counterparts, but it's still an excellent soundstage for a closed back. For me both the CC and AC sound very open, the sound is never in my head, and I forget that I have closed backs on after a few seconds.

While the soundstage has a predefined bubble of sound, for me it goes beyond my shoulders and sounds like sitting at my desk listening to a good set of desktop speakers about 3 feet away from me. It's just as holographic as the CO with excellent layering and separation of instruments and vocals within the soundstage, and for me that is more important than the width of the stage presentation.

In one aspect for me I like the soundstage of the CC and AC more than the CO or AO. With any open back I have to cut out any visual distractions to get full expansiveness of the soundstage and on the CC and AC I don't have to do that.

 

[dguitarnut]

Could be that closed backs aren't your thing.

It takes about 150 hours of burn in on the CC.

The CC takes a few more ticks on the volume dial to equalize with the CO. On the Bliss the CO I take to maybe -17 on some tracks, and on the CC I will be at -15.

On the CC or the AC, you're not going to get same expansive soundstage as their open counterparts, but it's still an excellent soundstage for a closed back. For me both the CC and AC sound very open, the sound is never in my head, and I forget that I have closed backs on after a few seconds.

While the soundstage has a predefined bubble of sound, for me it goes beyond my shoulders and sounds like sitting at my desk listening to a good set of desktop speakers about 3 feet away from me. It's just as holographic as the CO with excellent layering and separation of instruments and vocals within the soundstage, and for me that is more important than the width of the stage presentation.

In one aspect for me I like the soundstage of the CC and AC more than the CO or AO. With any open back I have to cut out any visual distractions to get full expansiveness of the soundstage and on the CC and AC I don't have to do that.

Thanks so much for such great info!…………..specially about the long burn in times and volume adjustments.

 

[robo24]

Leaving pads and meshes alone till full burn in.
For you folks with both CC and CO do you adjust volumes when comparing?

I use an app to detect the difference and adjust my DAC that many dB. CO is always louder.
Yeah it may be then that closed just aren't for you. I actually slightly prefer the soundstage on the CC to the CO and find it very 3d.

 

[rsbrsvp]

Does anyone have a sound comparison of "top wide perf suede" to "hybrid top perf only" on the cc?

 

[rsbrsvp]

By black mesh should arrive any day. In the meantime I wanted to try "no mesh". I figured between the two pads I have, the Hybrid and the Thick, the Thick would bring more weight and darkness which would be needed without the mesh. I am far from sold on this- but so far I like it better than the standard red mesh and hybrid pads. Things are brighter and more open and sound much much closer to the CO.

I was wondering - if using no mesh , which pads would bring the most thickness, base, darkness and control brightness of the available pad options? I am so impressed by my above experiment- that I want to experiment the "no mesh" option and see if I can tweak it more.

 

[rsbrsvp]

After more listening an hour later- with NO mesh- I am thrilled. I feel all the lushness and congestion is gone. It became so energetic, and the soundstage perception seemingly doubled. Look- I am 55 years old- so maybe a 35 year old would be bothered by the brightness. Seems to me IMHO a postitive brightness which I would call ENERGY.

This sounds like a CO- really really close- IMHO and maybe even sounds a touch better- just a smigen more tamed and focused- but the detail retreival is now IMHO so close I cant tell the difference and energy level as well. Gone is the warm character and back is the CO liveliness in FULL IMHO. Absolutely stunning soundstage without the mesh. You would never know it is a closedback if you did not look at the headphone.

I'll give it a few days to adjust- but at this point meshless is it. I love it. Time will tell as the ears often trick us short term.

 

[rsbrsvp]

OK. Another hour- this time going back and forth between CO and CC. Both with thick pads and both with no mesh.

They sound around 90% identical. The CO has more openness and brightness, while the CC is a bit more focused and warmer- this is the major difference and is the reality of being a closedback- I guess. However, the warmer lusher nature of the CC is reduced substantially in this configuration- even though it still remains a bit darker than the CO. But detail, seperation, energy, perceived frequency response- very similar IMHO.

I have a program on my PC than emulates speakers using crossfeed called "goodhertz canopener". When I activate it on the CC it opens up the CC to the point wher it really could fool me I'm listening to the CO. WIth the crossfeed activated on the CC, the tone, timber, tambour are nearly identical between the two in this configuration IMHO... but I prefer less to no DSP-- more natural.

I realize, different ears, different expectations, and different equipment will make a difference- but I am just reporting my findings. If this remains my conclusion in two weeks- I think I will have to sell one of them as they are so so similar in sonic presentation in the form I have them...

A stunning achievement for the CC. By the way- without the mesh- I do think sound is leaking quite a bit more.-- Gotta be honest.

I cant believe how disappointed I was just two days ago when I got the CC in stock form and they sounded so conjested to me... What a turn around.

 

[rsbrsvp]

Just tried the CC with no mesh and the Hybrid pads. Perhaps even better. Soundstage a bit smaller than thick pads, but midrange is noticably fuller and sound is more 3D, more textured. Just excellent; more balanced for sure than the thick pads. What a difference the removing of the mesh made for me.-- so far.....

 

[hafzz123]

Just tried the CC with no mesh and the Hybrid pads. Perhaps even better. Soundstage a bit smaller than thick pads, but midrange is noticably fuller and sound is more 3D, more textured. Just excellent; more balanced for sure than the thick pads. What a difference the removing of the mesh made for me.-- so far.....

So, removing the mesh on CC makes it sounds more open and lively? I do feel the stock configuration CC is a little bit too tame and polite for my taste

 

[rsbrsvp]

So, removing the mesh on CC makes it sounds more open and lively? I do feel the stock configuration CC is a little bit too tame and polite for my taste

absolutely. Donesnt mean you will like it. I have seen some other's say they tried it and felt it threw things off balance. So- trust your ears.

 

[AnyDave]

absolutely. Donesnt mean you will like it. I have seen some other's say they tried it and felt it threw things off balance. So- trust your ears.

It wouldn't hurt anything to try the mantle mesh if you feel inclined as well. That could be a step between no mesh and the black mesh.

 

[rsbrsvp]

It wouldn't hurt anything to try the mantle mesh if you feel inclined as well. That could be a step between no mesh and the black mesh.

You mean to try the mantle mesh of the CO on the CC?

 

[sparty09]

absolutely. Donesnt mean you will like it. I have seen some other's say they tried it and felt it threw things off balance. So- trust your ears.

All your testing gave me the bug last night to try some different things too. Was enjoying stock mesh with thick pads but popped on green with protein. Really enjoyed the thicker sound but did notice slight dip in clarity.

Might try no mesh next, always great having the easy modifications! If anything it makes you a pro at pad rolling ha.

 

[AnyDave]

You mean to try the mantle mesh of the CO on the CC?

I've never actually tried it, but it will fit on the CC the same was as it does on the CO, so you could try it if you are curious.