[Wes S]

Anyone running their CC meshless? I've been going back and forth between the CO and CC tonight and the one thing that really stands out to me is the added clarity of the CO. Comparing on the same system with same cable, just swapping headphones. The CO is a touch more efficient, or less dampened, as it's louder than the CC by a small margin. But the clarity is really standing out. The CC side by side seems muffled. The main difference is the upper mids/treble.

I'm really at a loss on both Calderas in that they're far brighter than I normally like and can handle (easily aggravated tinnitus), yet I'm not getting the usual fatigue, and I kinda like it. But the CO really stands out here with it's added clarity. I might pull the mesh off the CC to see if it's the mesh or the overall tuning of the CC that's contributing to it's more muffled presentation.

I have only heard the CO at CanJam, but I was one of the only one's in the room at one time while listening so did get a good read on them, and they came off as a little too bright for me, and so I welcome the added warmth of the CC, and they have exactly what I was hoping to hear from the CO. Interesting, how you seem to be favoring the CO's and knowing how you like it warm, I was really betting you would favor the CC.

 

[erics75]

I have only heard the CO at CanJam, but I was one of the only one's in the room at one time while listening so did get a good read on them, and they came off as a little too bright for me, and so I welcome the added warmth of the CC, and they have exactly what I was hoping to hear from the CO. Interesting, how you seem to be favoring the CO's and knowing how you like it warm, I was really betting you would favor the CC.

Yeah these Calderas are quite disruptive to my norms. Despite the COs brightness I also find it a touch thicker in the low mids so it’s really throwing me for a loop. I should be running screaming from it, but instead I keep seeing it out. I also perceive a slightly pinched or nasal tone on the CC vs the CO. Only in comparison, not in a vacuum. I really want the CC to win out as I do way more office listening vs home listening, but the CO is really captivating me. Don’t get me wrong, the CC is excellent as well, but in the forge of competition its wilting from the heat a bit.

 

[zach915m]

Anyone running their CC meshless? I've been going back and forth between the CO and CC tonight and the one thing that really stands out to me is the added clarity of the CO. Comparing on the same system with same cable, just swapping headphones. The CO is a touch more efficient, or less dampened, as it's louder than the CC by a small margin. But the clarity is really standing out. The CC side by side seems muffled. The main difference is the upper mids/treble.

I'm really at a loss on both Calderas in that they're far brighter than I normally like and can handle (easily aggravated tinnitus), yet I'm not getting the usual fatigue, and I kinda like it. But the CO really stands out here with it's added clarity. I might pull the mesh off the CC to see if it's the mesh or the overall tuning of the CC that's contributing to it's more muffled presentation.

I *think* that they are just tuned a bit differently as some areas of CC are more forward in the mids and some areas are more laid back, but this all depends on some slight factors like what volume one listens to and HRTF.

The largest difference is definitely damping, as the closed headphones just need more of it. As you can see in the graph below even with more damping - the CC still have some treble areas in the 8K plus area that are higher.

The largest factor I think is that open headphones need so much less damping, which causes the impulse response and therefore the "transient attack" or as many of us call it the dynamic range of the first impulse to be greater.

The Caldera Open is supreme in this area and one of the things that makes it sound like such a dynamic/planar hybrid between it self and other headphones.

And while the Caldera Closed is "less" in the dynamic impulse department, I do wonder if any other planar closed backs can match the Caldera Closed's great impulse response. Which as you guys know from my CC video and ramblings on some "other sites' that I value impulse type measurements that show transient info highly.

The planar closed back realm is a niche for sure, and by far the most challenging tuning job I've had to work on. I am super proud of where it ended up and while I do agree it can't match the impulse of similar flagship opens like Caldera Open etc in that dept, it's is still VERY high in this regard and I think when compared to other planar closed backs would tell the real story. And I also think is a important reason why many people have a hard time understanding areas beyond frequency response when it comes to perception because there haven't been major studies conducted like Harman, but it doesn't negate the science around what an impulse response is and how we hear it.

TLDR:/ Treble and mesh is one factor but impulse respinse in a closed back planar can further explain attack and decay differences between open and closed headphones.

Edit to include graph, closed VS open:

 

[zach915m]

Yeah these Calderas are quite disruptive to my norms. Despite the COs brightness I also find it a touch thicker in the low mids so it’s really throwing me for a loop. I should be running screaming from it, but instead I keep seeing it out. I also perceive a slightly pinched or nasal tone on the CC vs the CO. Only in comparison, not in a vacuum. I really want the CC to win out as I do way more office listening vs home listening, but the CO is really captivating me. Don’t get me wrong, the CC is excellent as well, but in the forge of competition its wilting from the heat a bit.

You try those deep pads yet?

 

[erics75]

You try those deep pads yet?

Excellent reply above, very informative! And that makes total sense as you explained it as that’s what I’m hearing and getting fixated on, but trying to explain it in basic FR terms. I’ll say this, the CC isn’t that far off the CO in impulse response. When rapid swapping sets you’ll hear it. But give your ears a minute to acclimate and the difference isn’t as big.

Oh yeah I’m rocking deep pads on both the open and closed, my ears gravitated to them pretty quickly.

These are some impressive headphones sir, I bow in respect. To offer this much clarity and high frequency presence without being fatiguing is a remarkable accomplishment.

Honestly I really want to keep both sets, I love them so much. But budget won’t allow so picking the keeper is proving an excruciating process. Can’t wait to further test them on the Aegis!

 

[zach915m]

Excellent reply above, very informative! And that makes total sense as you explained it as that’s what I’m hearing and getting fixated on, but trying to explain it in basic FR terms. I’ll say this, the CC isn’t that far off the CO in impulse response. When rapid swapping sets you’ll hear it. But give your ears a minute to acclimate and the difference isn’t as big.

Oh yeah I’m rocking deep pads on both the open and closed, my ears gravitated to them pretty quickly.

These are some impressive headphones sir, I bow in respect. To offer this much clarity and high frequency presence without being fatiguing is a remarkable accomplishment.

Honestly I really want to keep both sets, I love them so much. But budget won’t allow so picking the keeper is proving an excruciating process. Can’t wait to further test them on the Aegis!

Haha time is your friend!

I'll work on getting that Aegis over - we should be shipping later this week or early next. As a note - and I should repeat this in the Aegis thread, upgrade/alternate tubes may come in a separate box.

 

[vsg28]

Caldera Closed impressions from Resolve based on the High End show demo: "This was easily one of the better experiences of the show for me so far, and they also had it running from one of the Feliks Envy tube amps. It’s not at all neutral, but it did a warm and relaxed, lush kind of sound signature very well. So quite relaxed in the ear gain but not in a way that detracted from its overall sense of resolution and incisiveness. I think my only critique would be that the mids were occasionally a bit too ‘gooey’, but then again it’s unclear if that’s just a characteristic imparted by the tube amp. But I can definitely see people liking this one."

 

[zach915m]

Caldera Closed impressions from Resolve based on the High End show demo: "This was easily one of the better experiences of the show for me so far, and they also had it running from one of the Feliks Envy tube amps. It’s not at all neutral, but it did a warm and relaxed, lush kind of sound signature very well. So quite relaxed in the ear gain but not in a way that detracted from its overall sense of resolution and incisiveness. I think my only critique would be that the mids were occasionally a bit too ‘gooey’, but then again it’s unclear if that’s just a characteristic imparted by the tube amp. But I can definitely see people liking this one."

I appreciate that he liked them, but I'm always a bit confused when reviewers of his magnitude feel the need to give impressions (clarification: impressions of finality) of our headphones when hearing them for a short time at a show when we are very much a modular tuning system (not that that negates anything he's saying in a singular format). Especially given the fact that we won't be sending them to the show for coverage.

It would be more appropriate if they were going to cover them to give a quick impression to tease a longer review but that's not the case here.

It's been quite well documented my asks for us to remain uncovered by the headphone show for various conflict {implicit bias} of interest reasons, but it seems this won't be honored. Oh well.

And no I won't go into a further discussion of this here sorry!

 

[idairyou]

And no I won't go into a further discussion of this here sorry!

That's good. Nothing more annoying than online/social media drama.

And no one wants drama to distract users from the quality of the product.

 

[betula]

Caldera Closed impressions from Resolve based on the High End show demo: "This was easily one of the better experiences of the show for me so far, and they also had it running from one of the Feliks Envy tube amps. It’s not at all neutral, but it did a warm and relaxed, lush kind of sound signature very well. So quite relaxed in the ear gain but not in a way that detracted from its overall sense of resolution and incisiveness. I think my only critique would be that the mids were occasionally a bit too ‘gooey’, but then again it’s unclear if that’s just a characteristic imparted by the tube amp. But I can definitely see people liking this one."

I guess, that's high praise from him as he usually dislikes this kind of sound and tuning (ZMF, Meze and so on.) He is more on the neutral/analytical side and also loves his measurements.

 

[jamato8]

I appreciate that he liked them, but I'm always a bit confused when reviewers of his magnitude feel the need to give impressions of our headphones when hearing them for a short time at a show when we are very much a modular tuning system (not that that negates anything he's saying in a singular format). Especially given the fact that we won't be sending them to the show for coverage.

It would be more appropriate if they were going to cover them to give a quick impression to tease a longer review but that's not the case here.

It's been quite well documented my asks for us to remain uncovered by the headphone show for various conflict {implicit bias} of interest reasons, but it seems this won't be honored. Oh well.

And no I won't go into a further discussion of this here sorry!

Having done a number of shows in the past for a few different manufacturers, I totally agree with you. You have to sit down, use the equipment for an extended time and see what works and what doesn't and even, when it comes to headphones, for time for the ear pads to shape to your head for the best seal, which can be 10 minutes or 30 minutes but there are many things, just like a venue for live music, that will shape the sound and time is needed.

Also I have noticed, that some reviewers, no matter their stature in the community, will make controversial or obtuse statements, to seem more astute or learned about what they are doing. This is not a reflection on whom you mention but something I have noticed over the years and even more so lately.

 

[vsg28]

I guess, that's high praise from him as he usually dislikes this kind of sound and tuning (ZMF, Meze and so on.) He is more on the neutral/analytical side and also loves his measurements.

It's a gamble to gauge the Caldera Closed on a short demo in less-than-ideal listening conditions for sure, but I do feel like more and more people will be talking about the Caldera Closed based on time spent at shows. I would like to think it will end up being one of the more defining headphones of this generation because of what it is capable of out of the box and the subsequent tweaks courtesy the modular system.

 

[betula]

It's a gamble to gauge the Caldera Closed on a short demo in less-than-ideal listening conditions for sure, but I do feel like more and more people will be talking about the Caldera Closed based on time spent at shows. I would like to think it will end up being one of the more defining headphones of this generation because of what it is capable of out of the box and the subsequent tweaks courtesy the modular system.

For sure, but it will take more time for the picture to crystallise. As you say, it is really difficult to get proper impressions of ZMF headphones at shows. The sound can differ quite a bit depending on the several tuning options: 6 compatible earpads for some models, plus different meshes and we did not even take the audio chain into account.
It is awesome to have such a wide range of tunability, but the flipside is that the same person can get very different impressions of the same headphones at shows, depending on the above circumstances.

 

[zach915m]

It's a gamble to gauge the Caldera Closed on a short demo in less-than-ideal listening conditions for sure, but I do feel like more and more people will be talking about the Caldera Closed based on time spent at shows. I would like to think it will end up being one of the more defining headphones of this generation because of what it is capable of out of the box and the subsequent tweaks courtesy the modular system.

Yeah that situation is far more complicated than just "impressions based on shows." Impressions from shows are great, and I welcome them absolutely.

I do feel bad often about the modular system we created and I'm going to strive to make it easier defined in the coming year with info graphics and such. It cna be a terribly hard thing to navigate and understand when you don't own the headphone.

 

[zach915m]

Here's the YouTube ad I made - they say the most important part is the first 5 seconds haha.

What do you guys think more flames? I believe it accompanied by a funny zmf Tagline and link or logo.