ZMF Bokeh - Open Back Headphones

[DACattack]

@binarypie Yep, I've heard that from others: it's shouldn't make a difference. YMMV, of course. I've had the Yggdrasil for several years, and when I added it to my setup it made an immediate and obvious improvement to the sound--bass in particular was deeper, more defined and precise, soundstage width and depth both expanded, and separation of instruments--especially in busy passages--improved. Dynamics also were enhanced. It was the second most impactful overall change I've made in my system over the years besides upgrading transducers.

I'm generally skeptical of many claims for equipment, but I'm sold on the quality of your DAC making a difference. Tubes are another area where it's easy to hear improvements. Cables, only a little, if at all. Fuses? Um, no (snake oil there).

 

[theveterans]

@binarypie Yep, I've heard that from others: it's shouldn't make a difference. YMMV, of course. I've had the Yggdrasil for several years, and when I added it to my setup it made an immediate and obvious improvement to the sound--bass in particular was deeper, more defined and precise, soundstage width and depth both expanded, and separation of instruments--especially in busy passages--improved. Dynamics also were enhanced. It was the second most impactful overall change I've made in my system over the years besides upgrading transducers.

I'm generally skeptical of many claims for equipment, but I'm sold on the quality of your DAC making a difference. Tubes are another area where it's easy to hear improvements. Cables, only a little, if at all. Fuses? Um, no (snake oil there).

You should try Ethernet filtering. They make quite a noticeable difference too and Bokeh Open should easily reproduce that difference

 

[binarypie]

@binarypie Yep, I've heard that from others: it's shouldn't make a difference. YMMV, of course. I've had the Yggdrasil for several years, and when I added it to my setup it made an immediate and obvious improvement to the sound--bass in particular was deeper, more defined and precise, soundstage width and depth both expanded, and separation of instruments--especially in busy passages--improved. Dynamics also were enhanced. It was the second most impactful overall change I've made in my system over the years besides upgrading transducers.

I'm generally skeptical of many claims for equipment, but I'm sold on the quality of your DAC making a difference. Tubes are another area where it's easy to hear improvements. Cables, only a little, if at all. Fuses? Um, no (snake oil there).

Cables, power filters, special USB, magical caps, etc... anything that seems like it breaks the laws of the universe and reasonable spending is always suspect to me.

Tubes shouldn't be so expensive but supply and demand dictates that.

 

[theveterans]

Cables, power filters, special USB, magical caps, etc... anything that seems like it breaks the laws of the universe and reasonable spending is always suspect to me.

Yes they do break the laws especially Ethernet cables, Ethernet filtering and passive power cords, but this is what's fun about the hobby: things you believe shouldn't break the universe but they do, you just can't measure them at the analog output of a DAC

 

[ch1525i]

I agree. I have the Yggdrasil A2 w/the Unison upgrade and it's excellent, but I recently bought the Gungnir 2 and it's, dare I say, better than my Yggy, which genuinely surprised me.

@ch1525i if you're looking to upgrade from your Modi MB it's a superb DAC, both with speakers and with headphones.

I will have a look. I like my Schiit gear so upgrading in that family makes sense. I've also considered the Laiv uDAC as my space is limited but I'm worried about it being balanced only to my Gemini I would not want to jeopardize it at all

 

[binarypie]

Yes they do break the laws especially Ethernet cables, Ethernet filtering and passive power cords, but this is what's fun about the hobby: things you believe shouldn't break the universe but they do, you just can't measure them at the analog output of a DAC

That's true. To each person this hobby is something different and that's what makes it awesome. I'll likely never be in your camp but I'll still learn new things from you.

 

[DACattack]

@binarypie One other thing which I've noticed makes a difference in the sound is Schiit's "megaburritocombo" filter on their MB DACS. The latest Yggdrasil models and Gungnir 2 (and I believe the Bifrost 2/64 as well), all offer a NOS mode--where you can disable the filter and do your own upsampling and whatever other digital jiggery your heart desires--so it's easy to compare with and without. For me, when I compare between them, I think the filter is an important part of their secret sauce.

@theveterans I've read your posts in other threads that ethernet filtering has made a substantial difference for you. I won't ever say no to trying something out of hand (other than fuses), but I'm not sure I want to add yet another audio rabbit hole to explore. Perhaps one day. Glad it's made such a difference for you though.

@ch1525i I don't know much about the Laiv DAC, but the Gungnir 2, while not small is certainly not Yggy size, and is thinner than I expected. The Multiform tech it uses is fascinating and I'll be curious to see whether and in what form that propagates to Yggy. I do know that if that becomes available for it--and I fully expect that it will--that I'll definitely jump at that upgrade, given the impact it seems to have had on the G2. Best of luck sorting out your DAC situation.

 

[binarypie]

@binarypie One other thing which I've noticed makes a difference in the sound is Schiit's "megaburritocombo" filter on their MB DACS. The latest Yggdrasil models and Gungnir 2 (and I believe the Bifrost 2/64 as well), all offer a NOS mode--where you can disable the filter and do your own upsampling and whatever other digital jiggery your heart desires--so it's easy to compare with and without. For me, when I compare between them, I think the filter is an important part of their secret sauce.

Oh that's an awesome feature! I've been looking at Gungnir 2 just because I want to pair it with a Freya and a Mojinar to go back to the brushed metal look. I know it's shallow but I really don't like the finish on my Jotunheim or my Modius.

 

[DACattack]

@binarypie LOL, oh I totally get it--I enjoy the brushed metal look better myself. I decided to Forkbeard my main 2-channel system (hence the Gungnir 2 purchase) and decided to go all black, because both my Folkvangr and my pending Mjolnir 3--sigh, it keeps getting moved back (ordered in beginning of February and looks like mid-May now at the earliest (I know, I know, such shallow first world problems))--are black. When I send the Yggy back to the mothership when the next round of upgrades comes in toward the end of the year, and I get the chassis update, I'm going to switch from silver to black. Yeah, it's completely absurd but the mix of silver and black was starting to bug me. Sigh, there's truly no help for me, is there?

If you decide to upgrade your Modius to Gungnir 2 you absolutely won't be disappointed, especially if you get it in silver.

(And, to keep this at least a little ZMF focused, I received the email today from ZMF that the wood has been selected for my Opens. And so it begins!)

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Just want to add that, as a Verite Open lover, Bokeh Open with Solid Mesh synergise quite well! Tame the energy a little bit on treble, but ultimately what make me truly like it is the mesh create more focus and provide more density at Midrange area (paired with Sparkos Gemini).

 

[devilboy]

Just want to add that, as a Verite Open lover, Bokeh Open with Solid Mesh synergise quite well! Tame the energy a little bit on treble, but ultimately what make me truly like it is the mesh create more focus and provide more density at Midrange area (paired with Sparkos Gemini).

Really...hmm.
At times my BO is ever so slightly bright on the top end. Classical music makes up 90% of my headphone listening and when a lot of violins come in, sometimes it's a little bit too hot. This is with the regular mesh, not the solid.

 

[binarypie]

Just want to add that, as a Verite Open lover, Bokeh Open with Solid Mesh synergise quite well! Tame the energy a little bit on treble, but ultimately what make me truly like it is the mesh create more focus and provide more density at Midrange area (paired with Sparkos Gemini).

I really do need to try the solid mesh. I wouldn't mind cutting the highs down just a bit. What does it do to the mids and lows?

 

[devilboy]

I really do need to try the solid mesh. I wouldn't mind cutting the highs down just a bit. What does it do to the mids and lows?

Yes. Good question...

 

[binarypie]

Yes. Good question...

I spent 5 min to swap them out and so far I'm not a huge fan.
It does indeed lower the highs but it compresses everything and makes it sound like I'm listening behind a very thin wall.
I'm going to swap them back. This sound isn't for me.

EDIT:
Back to stock mesh. Immediately songs sound well brighter and more dynamic. I'm staying with this setup and the lamb pads.

EDIT 2:
I'm going to add some details here. I am NOT an audiophile.

Lights by Ellie Goulding
With the solid mesh you get all of the Ssssss sounds without any dynamic brightness. It's like the worst of both worlds. All of the steel drum sounds in the song are flat and all of the resonance is gone. Frankly the solid mesh is not meant for this kind of music.

RATATATA by Babymetal & Electric Callboy
This song has a metal back beat, electronic drum machine, heavy metal vocals, and pop vocals. It's all over the place. The solid mesh mutes the female voices and the dynamic shift between heavy metal male to poppy female vocals is lost. It's just well uninspiring.

Flying or Crying by Zach Bryan
The emotion in Zach's voice is gone. It ruined this song for me. The raw edgy heartfelt sound was just replaced with an FM radio sound. Oh this pissed me off so much.

 

[betula]

What does it do to the mids and lows?

To put it simply: dulls them a bit. Extra front dampening feels like a blanket on the sound. Softens and tones down the treble, but the 'blanket' extends to the mids and bass as well. Stock mesh it is for me without a second thought.