@zach915m In this video Zach mentions Radial and solid mesh are the same. But earlier says solid mesh helps tame treble energy above 2/3k or something ...
Just a FYI if you weren't aware, there are 3 different versions of Titan mesh. The Aeolus stock mesh (pictured in that video), which is listed for sale on ZMF's website as the radial vented mesh. Then of course there is the solid mesh and the stock Atrium mesh which is pictured below:
Here's a few posts by Zach earlier in the thread where he talks about the mesh:
Oh sorry if I gave conflicting info, the solid mesh is always darker with lesser treble peaks.
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Can you guys test this track? At 2:24 I believe the upper mids are too much. Hard to handle at louder volumes. I believe I am using radial mesh and Auteur Hybrid Pref.
Not sure what you mean by too much upper mids, but the song does get incredibly loud at that time stamp. Perhaps just turn down your volume as it's mastered pretty hot to me. Recording overall is very clean though.
Not sure what you mean by too much upper mids, but the song does get incredibly loud at that time stamp. Perhaps just turn down your volume as it's mastered pretty hot to me. Recording overall is very clean though.
I know it’s the recording but some songs the Atriums sound a bit sibilant or harsh. Not sure in which frequency range. Maybe 5k? Or lower? I’m hoping the solid mesh will tame it. It only happens for certain sibilant tracks.
The Atriums make me want to add a tube pre to my chain. I can imagine they would go well together.
It's both flashy and understated. The flash of a muted purple with the understated look of the grill vs. the other metal offerings and the perfect chassis color to match the headphone overall. This one is really special!
It's both flashy and understated. The flash of a muted purple with the understated look of the grill vs. the other metal offerings and the perfect chassis color to match the headphone overall. This one is really special!
Here’s more thoughts on the Expanse vs Atrium. The Expanse has the largest soundstage of any Mr. Speakers creation to date. But it still cannot touch the Atrium. The Atrium is simply wider and more atmospheric. I love it’s staging!
The Atrium is even more mid forward and on most tracks, has even more intimate vocals. I actually love this tuning choice of the Atrium. It feels like the lead singer is singing right to you and you’re surrounded by the other musicians/instruments. I actually found myself pulling the earcups more forward on my ears with the Expanse to try and make them sound more like the Atrium.
Somewhere around the 10kHz range, the Atrium has more energy, but not too much like Hifiman. This energy adds a bit of shimmer and air that is a little lacking on the Expanse. After a while, I miss that energy on the Expanse and crave the Atrium.
The Atrium has a gradual mid bass lift that rises and then gently drops a little as it approaches the sub bass at 20Hz. The Expanse has a tasteful upper bass boost between 100 and 200Hz. That bass boost can sound awesome on some tracks, but a little disjointed or out of place on others. The Atrium bass tuning always sounds natural.
The absolute technical performance goes to the Expanse. But the soundstage and most organic and natural tuning goes to the Atrium. They’re both gorgeous, but nothing makes you want to stare at a headphone more than ZMF.
I don’t care about the absolute in technical performance and/or detail. There is something about the character and tuning of the Atrium that just keeps me coming back. I truly feel like the only way I part with it is to get another ZMF.
I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree, entirely depending on what volume I'm listening at. At lower volumes, I find the Expanse to be much more mid forward, but on the Atrium they're better at higher volumes. I can't really say why
I haven't had any issues with this, although I do wish this boost was in the sub-bass region instead, since that's what tends to disappear at the lower volumes I listen at. The Atrium is somewhat better here in that regard.
I don't know that I fully agree. The soundstage for me goes to the Expanse. To me, it has an extremely natural soundstage. The Atrium seems to have an over-inflated soundstage to my ear. I love it, but it's not as natural/organic to me.
I think I agree, but I feel like they're both very technical in their own regard. Honestly, it's really hard for me to declare one "better" in any particular area than the other. They're very different to my ear and I love both of them.
Hmmmm, so I was A/B ing Atriums and Expanse for 2 hours. Playing random music from my library. Soundstage on the Expanse might be track dependent.
Try them with, Tycho - Adrift
Soundstage did sound Expansive at that point. I forgot I was listening to headphones at that point.
Both the Atriums and Expanse are good. Both have more note weight than the Susvara. Atriums are more aggressive/exciting than the Expanse. Expanse is more detailed and has a safer FR.
Older/poor recording like some older James Brown, etc can sound harsh on both cans. Maybe because they are both mid forward and the distortion from the original track is more centered in the mids. Not sure.
When doing quick A/B between the 2. Atriums are even more mid forward, vocals are a bit more emotive, kick drums have good attack. I think the biggest negative of the Expanse is its lack of slam. I think I wouldn't notice as much coming from a Susvara but comparing to Atrium or probably Utopia it is very noticeable.
Expanse at times sounded to have a bigger soundstage of the Atriums at times. People feel the Atrium have large soundstage so maybe the Expanse is bigger than we thought. I briefly compared soundstage on that track I listed earlier on the Susvara and Expanse and was surprised that it sounded bigger on the Expanse. It was more 3 dimensional. Sphere above and in front.
So both cans are good. And I can be happy with either. I think I am leaning towards the Atriums slightly due to more emotive vocals and longer decay of notes. Also because it is dynamic driver vs planar. It does have poorer details, imaging, less smooth frequency response, harsher at times but has better slam and secret sauce.
I think the Atriums will excel in a tube amp setup. I am definitely trying to get a tube pre in the future. I think the Atriums and Susvara would sound orgasmic. I don't think the Expanse would benefit from tubes. Maybe a good silver cable could help.
*Listening to Expanse now. Sounds great. More note weight than Susvara. Great balanced FR. TOTL amount of details.
Hmmmm, so I was A/B ing Atriums and Expanse for 2 hours. Playing random music from my library. Soundstage on the Expanse might be track dependent.
Try them with, Tycho - Adrift
Soundstage did sound Expansive at that point. I forgot I was listening to headphones at that point.
Both the Atriums and Expanse are good. Both have more note weight than the Susvara. Atriums are more aggressive/exciting than the Expanse. Expanse is more detailed and has a safer FR.
Older/poor recording like some older James Brown, etc can sound harsh on both cans. Maybe because they are both mid forward and the distortion from the original track is more centered in the mids. Not sure.
When doing quick A/B between the 2. Atriums are even more mid forward, vocals are a bit more emotive, kick drums have good attack. I think the biggest negative of the Expanse is its lack of slam. I think I wouldn't notice as much coming from a Susvara but comparing to Atrium or probably Utopia it is very noticeable.
Expanse at times sounded to have a bigger soundstage of the Atriums at times. People feel the Atrium have large soundstage so maybe the Expanse is bigger than we thought. I briefly compared soundstage on that track I listed earlier on the Susvara and Expanse and was surprised that it sounded bigger on the Expanse. It was more 3 dimensional. Sphere above and in front.
So both cans are good. And I can be happy with either. I think I am leaning towards the Atriums slightly due to more emotive vocals and longer decay of notes. Also because it is dynamic driver vs planar. It does have poorer details, imaging, less smooth frequency response, harsher at times but has better slam and secret sauce.
I think the Atriums will excel in a tube amp setup. I am definitely trying to get a tube pre in the future. I think the Atriums and Susvara would sound orgasmic. I don't think the Expanse would benefit from tubes. Maybe a good silver cable could help.
*Listening to Expanse now. Sounds great. More note weight than Susvara. Great balanced FR. TOTL amount of details.
The longer I’ve listened to the Expanse, the more I guess I prefer the mid forwardness of the Atrium. Of course this is track dependent, but vocals can sound too distant for me on the Expanse. And even if they sound a little distant on the Atrium as well, it’s always closer than the Expanse. And on some tracks with the Atrium, the vocalist sounds so close it’s like I could touch their face. I love that tuning. For sure that is just my subjective preference.
Also, I don’t hear any harshness with the Atrium. To my ears, it makes everything sound good. Some may find that as a fault, but I don’t. The Expanse seems to expose things more. So a track that sounds good on the Atrium, could also sound dull or too closed in with the Expanse. With the Expanse, I find myself gravitating towards certain songs and skipping over others. With the Atrium, I can put my songs on shuffle and just listen to anything and it’s always enjoyable. At the end of the day, that’s the most important attribute for me as a hobbyist. If I were mixing and editing, then I’d prefer the Expanse.
I know it’s the recording but some songs the Atriums sound a bit sibilant or harsh. Not sure in which frequency range. Maybe 5k? Or lower? I’m hoping the solid mesh will tame it. It only happens for certain sibilant tracks.
The Atriums make me want to add a tube pre to my chain. I can imagine they would go well together.
If it really is a recording problem, and the Atrium shows this exactly right, that is fidelity and surely that's the object of hifi.
Messing with anything to cure a problem that is with the recording, not the system, could be a backward step.
I don't find the Atrium to have any trace of sibilance or harshness.
If as I suspect, the sibilance problem is over emphasised, I'm sure it's not the Atrium but something else in your system doing this.
You've answered your own question already; do try some tubes; a tube pre might be the answer but more likely a full tube amp.
OK, I'm highly biased, but for me a good CD player with tube output adds even more magic.
Simplest path here would be pad swapping, which has significant impact on tuning. I forget which one you use, but generally I’ve found that treble energy goes on this order (high to low; all perforated): BE2 > Universe > Auteur (and without that, choice of material can have secondary impact). I personally love the stock Universe lamb. The Auteur will be even darker (for me it bleeds too much bass into mids, but may be good for your preference).
Per my point at top my post, try full tube amp. OTL can be both cheaper and better to achieve a smoother sound. But transformer coupled at high impedance setting (my setup) is fantastic.
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