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ZiShan T1 Hi-Fi Player Thread

Discussion in 'Portable Source Gear' started by IcedFrosty, Jul 27, 2019.

Is this the best DAP under $100?

  1. Yes

    11 vote(s)
  2. No

    10 vote(s)
  3. Way above the price range!

    4 vote(s)
  4. Could be

    18 vote(s)
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  1. Merlin-PT
    Datasheet doesn't show a circuit for stereo, they only show for 4 separated channels and for mono, so I was thinking something like we see in pag.110 for mono operation (140dB), but not all 4 channels would do mono, we could have 2 chs mono and another 2 chs mono doing "137 dB (Stereo)", _maybe_ separating (at VOUT) that mono circuit in 2 blocks, one block for each internal DAC.
    Anyway my curiosity was how this will be done in T1, if they will use 4 dual opamps and all channels or not.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
    Ivan TT likes this.
  2. fabien32
    i think you two started on the wrong feat. and sometimes people don't get along for difference in personalities. i think you both should stop talking to each-other. anyway just trying to make peace, not becoming part of the argument
    DBaldock9 and Ivan TT like this.
  3. HeyManslowdown97
    I believe it’s coming out in month or so. I’m hoping before 11.11 so I can save $$$.

    I’m also interested in the ES9038 T1. It would be rad if they made that one ES9038 2x!

    I’m really impressed with T1 Ak4497eq. Surprisingly, plays warmer and has a more noticeable characteristics of “Verita” audio signature. At the heart of any DAC is the it’s sound that only improves with better quality parts and I look forward to doing some even swaps with better cross referenced parts and changing amps and caps.

    What I love about the T1 is that it’s as small as the Z series and like the Z series easier to open and mod for the looks of it!

    The AD8397, 8022 and the 8556 are on my list along with some of my already favorite Amps to put in the T1. So exciting
    IcedFrosty likes this.
  4. HeyManslowdown97
    Because it’s got a seal and someone else’s design with its own audio signature and encrypted firmware. And this is a public thread about a consumer based product not development forum and discussion thread.

    It’s not development board. It’s not open sourced. Common sense. You don’t know what thought process was put into it and speculate a lot. And I don’t have to pass your litmus tests.

    I have no personal agenda it’s actually quite the contrary I am not gonna put your “crazy idea” of replace the MSOP and you stating that HF sounded “colder” and more analytical but you did say it.

    If you want to implement a headphone amp with the Ak4497 data sheet you can make your own board. You can’t be mad when people point out that it’s not part of the original design and that you shouldn’t make claims when you haven’t probably tested everything and haven’t sufficiently made your own dac Audio signature. We don’t even know if your mods sound good because nobody’s heard your Zishan to evaluate it’s “enhanced” sound.

    If you have this talent for it, I’d say go for it instead wasting the time to correcting me.

    Honestly, though I have read a lot of what you write and I believe you are very knowledgeable but that it’s is is information. If you wanted a challenge yourself there is another level to this.

    Personally, my expertise is on the source material. The digital part what makes the music and it’s just as important. If you were playing inferior files than looking for problems in the components you are not gonna magically make it sounded any better. I’ve witness you say that you play mp3s and those that pull up datasheets complain about sibilance on varies tracks do the same. It’s not going to magically go away because you perfected the datasheet or made some kind of trick in the dac nor is every improvement going to play all music styles perfectly.

    My personal agenda is great sound audio not gotcha questions about the circuitry you have posed. I don’t care what your opinions are in regards to circuit wizardry nor is it in my agenda to silence you permanently which has been yours off thread because you don’t like my thoughts and opinions and feel they are diminishing the quality of discussion (even saying so direct onto the thread) and are looking for ways to kick me off these threads. That seems very clear to me that it is your personal agenda to do so you can get back to making this all about your pioneering re-designed Zishans and hacking the board inspired by reading other foreign thread discussions.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  5. fabien32
    when you do, please share your findings
    HeyManslowdown97 and DBaldock9 like this.
  6. HeyManslowdown97
    The clocks in the T1 aren’t keeping good time (it’s not bad per se but noticeable). I will replace them as well if I can.

    There is also a lag in the firmware much like the DSD Pro and at times the player has trouble between tracks (it’s not a dealbreaker in the experience) but would really love a multicore CPU in future Zishans!
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2019
  7. fabien32
    what is the clocks? and what would be a good replacement ?
  8. HeyManslowdown97
    Correction: AD8516 not AD8556 (which has nothing to do with audio op amps lol)

    I replaced the Dual crystal oscillator with two NDK NZ2520SD in the DSD Pro. I am not sure what frequency are in the T1 yet.

    I will also replace the microprocessors in the DAC that control the high frequencies and PWM which I will do again.

    The best way I can describe it’s effect on audio in my own words is, have you felt some parts speed up while others are slowed down. That's what it feels like. When you ”fix” it the audio sounds like a metronome that musicians use to keep time but it’s not “clicking” the meter instead it’s keeping time. Some people don’t like it and feel it’s to clinical, “cold” “analytic”. I don’t however.

    There’s are especially two PWM versions for audio one being the Class D amplifier and the other SACD encoder which the Zishan DAC are designed using.

    “A new class of audio amplifiers based on the PWM principle is becoming popular. Called class-D amplifiers, they produce a PWM equivalent of the analog input signal which is fed to the loudspeaker via a suitable filter network to block the carrier and recover the original audio. These amplifiers are characterized by very good efficiency figures (≥ 90%) and compact size/light weight for large power outputs. For a few decades, industrial and military PWM amplifiers have been in common use, often for driving servo motors. Field-gradient coils in MRI machines are driven by relatively high-power PWM amplifiers.
    Historically, a crude form of PWM has been used to play back PCM digital sound on the PC speaker, which is driven by only two voltage levels, typically 0 V and 5 V. By carefully timing the duration of the pulses, and by relying on the speaker's physical filtering properties (limited frequency response, self-inductance, etc.) it was possible to obtain an approximate playback of mono PCM samples, although at a very low quality, and with greatly varying results between implementations.

    In more recent times, the Direct Stream Digital sound encoding method was introduced, which uses a generalized form of pulse-width modulation called pulse density modulation, at a high enough sampling rate (typically in the order of MHz) to cover the whole acoustic frequencies range with sufficient fidelity. This method is used in the SACD format, and reproduction of the encoded audio signal is essentially similar to the method used in class-D amplifiers.”
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  9. Ivan TT

    They provide clocking for DAC, 2 are used for 44.1k and 48k sample rates and their multipliers.

    I used these in my DSDs, but they are smaller and tricky to solder in:

    But any quality oscillator will be an improvement, ideally 25ppm precision (or below, but things get expensive fast with oscillators).

    Sound becomes more natural, detailed, immersive, cathedral level soundstage, one of better updates in my opinion.
  10. fabien32
    if price is not an issue, witch one should i get ? if you have a link that would be great
  11. Ivan TT
    Or like this (photo not mine):
  12. fabien32
    I don't understand that photo ?
  13. fabien32
    what about this one ?
  14. Ivan TT
    TCXO 0.1ppm, 49.152MHz and 45.1584MHz
    The only issue is they are a bit large...
    Sorry, we were discussing AD8397ARZ few pages back.
    In this mod discrete transistor output stage has been bypassed and AD8397 that was soldered instead of OP275 drives single-ended headphone output directly.
    If not for those two red wires high current drive AD8397 has will be of no use as there is a transistor output stage after it that feeds 3.5mm output, but removing (bypassing) this stage allows AD8397 drive 3.5mm single-ended output directly.
    Not audio, so will not matter that much.
    Most likely CPU clock.
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
  15. fabien32
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2019
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