Your favorite sub-$1,000 closed-back headphones?
- Thread starter MikeZhao
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I actually really love the Z7 lol. Also the TX00 from Massdrop really good!
Redcarmoose
Headphoneus Supremus
I looked across the whole thread and didn’t notice anyone offer up the original Z7....handmade in Japan.
Different take on the Sony house sound and a nice complementary headphone to the MK2.
I found an open box brand new set for $360. They rock!
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Thats not true! I mentioned the Z7 just before your post lol
I looked across the whole thread and didn’t notice anyone offer up the original Z7....handmade in Japan.
Different take on the Sony house sound and a nice complementary headphone to the MK2.
I found an open box brand new set for $360. They rock!
Just tried the Z7 mkII ! quite close to the Z1R, these ones are below the USD1,000!
More than the Z7M2 ?
Hmmm I do not own the Z7M2s nor MDR-Z1Rs, but from my audition, Z7 version one is closer to Z1R sound. Z7M2 doesn't have as much bass, though the sound have a bit more detail. Soundstage remains unchanged (big & impressive for closed back!) I think overall Z7M2's sound signature is different. Though I think if you like Z1R you might find the original to be closer, probably because of the bass focus.
jaydunndiddit
Head-Fier
Yeah, no case was odd but it's to cut cost so I get that. I picked up a Slappa on Amazon for about $20 and it fits both pads and the cable so it's a minor nuisance IMO.
Since they only supplied one cable, I think they we're trying to hit that sweet spot of mobile and desktop use as most wouldn't have a spare of this type laying around. I think if they cut it back by a foot or so it wouldn't be an issue for mobile. At least it's durable and doesn't kink so another minor quibble considering all things.
bcaulf17
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Works for me. Which pads do you use with them? Sorry if you already mentioned that and I missed it. I’ve also read it’s tricky to swap the pads.
jaydunndiddit
Head-Fier
I vastly prefer the sheepskin pads over the velour. The stock velour pads are WAY too firm. Especially for those that wear glasses like I do. The sheepskin are plush and seal great even when wearing my glasses so I am a bit biased in that regard.
Also, they are the same size as any Fostex TH600/900 round pads so I had a fun time going through that as well. Angled pads didn't yield much difference at all to me staging wise but these were short listening tests as I swapped through everything.
The issue with pad fit is most pads have too much material on the lip to nest and fit in the ring on the headphone. You can pop the ring off to my knowledge but that's more of a hassle to me. You can just pull them over the driver housing and they stay in ace just fine and otherwise don't exhibit any shortcomings. I wouldn't even bother with the ring for other style pads unless you're OCD and just HAVE to have the cleanest look possible.
bcaulf17
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Thanks again for all the information you’ve provided, man! I know the original 1770 was considered a mixed bag but these look to be tuned a little better and priced better, and they seem like they’re a great mix of reference-type sound and listening enjoyment. With something like that I feel like it’s hard to go wrong.
Redcarmoose
Headphoneus Supremus
Never heard the the Z7 MK2 though I can recommend the Z7 MK1 simply due to reading how it’s so different than the MK2. Even above we read about less bass with the MK2 vs MK1; that’s how I understand it too. Though the thing is owning the Z1R and Z7 MK1; they start to sound like totally different headphones after a while. Where at first I thought the Z7 was close to the Z1R? Though now they seem to have complementary and completely different sound stages and sound characters.
The Z1R IS more refined but the Z7 has a rebellious disregard for refinement? It’s the ruggedness of texture and full on attitude that makes the original Z7 fun.
When I first started to read about the Z7, reports were about the “fake” midrange. The foggy lower midrange missing detail?
So finding an open-box special for $360 OTD, I listened to it off my iPod but getting home on my main gear, I almost cried. It was way better than I expected. Using the Sony MUC-B20SB1 and TA-ZH1ES takes the sound to a fantastic level. Maybe the level Sony envisioned?
Later I took the headphone and tried substandard amps and cables and sure enough, people were right. It’s a finicky headphone that needs some help to overcome it’s shortcomings. But.....with that said it’s great.
Below I will post my flagship review minus photos as I’m not done yet.
The Battle of Three Sony Flagships
OK, well the title is slightly misleading. This is really a collection of thoughts concerning the Z7, the IER-Z1R and the full-size Z1R. It’s also somewhat myopic as no other IEMs or headphones are introduced for reference. Probably this ends up most useful for someone already owning one of the three but curious about how the other two could fair in their collection.
I choose an IEM and two full-size headphones as these three actually represent Sony’s recently introduced top of the line models. Being the level they are at they were/are completely hand made in-house at Sony’s headphone factory in Tokyo Japan. This in itself remains in strict contrast to everything else Sony has released recently except the DMP-Z1 desktop unit; which is also an in-house build.
Mini Review:
This is a summation which encapsulates the total review in a short fast read. The basic concepts have been reduced for folks skimming along short of time or interest.
Sony Z7:
This full-size flagship was introduced in 2014, two years before the Z1R. Sound-wise the Z7 offers a more focused, more robust and less refined signature than the full-size Z1R. We are gifted with a smaller soundstage though still amazingly expansive. Bass is all in one area as well as a charming upper treble soundstage presentation. Build quality is through the roof as well as form factor being smaller of the two full-size flagships here. This headphones exudes excitement and fun in an almost wonderful bad taste way.................. it’s the very definition of a guilty necessity.
The Sony IER-Z1R:
Taking the Sony House sound to a more mature and maybe advanced level; because everything is clearer; it’s that detailed 3D no stopping clarity! A more physical and carved-out bass than with the full-size Z1R yet focused like the Z7. The IEM here actually becomes more refined and touchable as well as comprehensible! Here we are met with a more in-your-head soundstage, being a more concentrated and mind-bending elixir.
The Sony full-size Z1R:
Still the king, though given that freedom of judgment and criticism kings enjoy. While the IER-Z1R may beat it in technicality the Z1R remains it’s own unique experience by capturing nuances only a big headphone can do. Slightly less intense and upfront, it’s ends with more relaxed charm.
- Z7 super fun in a cutting school kind of way!
- IER-Z1R intense fun that does not turn off!
- Full-size Z1R refined slightly more laid-back fun...stately!
End of Mini-Review:
The Reviews and Comparisons:
It’s safe to say we have had a refinement along the way. While each transducer offers it’s own take on the Sony house sound, the history being what it is has shown a nice progression. Though I have purposely left out the Z7MK2 and what could be maybe thought of as an earlier IEM flagship the XBR-Z5 for the sake of simplicity!
Test Equipment:
Sony Walkman 1Z high gain
Sony Walkman 1A high gain
Sony Sony TA-ZH1ES amplifier low gain (Sony Dock, AudioQuest Carbon USB, Sony 1Z DAP)
Sony Z1R 4.4mm Kimber cable (Sony MUC-B20SB1)
Sony Z7 4.4mm Kimber cable (Sony MUC-B20SB1)
Sony IER-Z1R stock 4.4mm cable
It’s important to note the playing field has been leveled with all headphones being used with the same equipment and music. Only with this methodology could the differences be accurate and comparable. It also should be said, all this equipment was designed to be part of one ecosystem, all sounding optimized yet slightly different. Your choice as best would really be a matter of taste in the end.
Controversy:
The Sony house sound is revolutionary. It contains a set of tones which could come off as garish. It’s different for sure.........almost brutish and unrefined yet holding a level of refinement and detail at the same time. If anything it’s weird and different upon a first listen. It also could be considered an acquired taste like blue-cheese, seemingly wrong but then right after acclimation. Personally I love the sound but also realize that it is the result of whole systems and audiophile synergy which smooths out the imbalances and clarifies the strong points. And even with all the ideas of getting correction....tone is everything. For some the Sony house sound will never be acceptable. For many they fall-out of romance due to other headphones offering a more acceptable rendition of reality. There is no right of wrong here, no one sound signature is either containing good or bad taste!
At the same time I’m not sure about this particular U shape tone being an existing thing in headphone history. The 1989-1990s Sony house sound was more middle of the road. We may even have Dr. Dre to blame introducing the ridiculous bass-heavy “Beats” changing popular sound signature history, channeling the night-club spirit into everyday sound perception. Weather you choose to believe this is the old-school “Hi/Fi” sound or the sound of high school car stereos; it’s your call, not mine.
What I can promise:
If you like the sound of one of these headphones there is a good chance you will like any or all of them. It doesn’t get much simpler here at Head-Fi. And while the Z7 is out of production there are still new-in-box offering out there; I only paid $360 on close-out. Both the full-size Z1R and IEM namesake the IER-Z1R are still in production with over 3200 IER-Z1R units complete at the time of this writing.
The Sony Z7:
Giant 70mm drivers stuffed into cast magnesium shells has this beauty stand out. Just the unique foam pad design is a first helping create the immersion this headphone is capable of. As we are going to learn choosing this over either of the other ear-monitor or headphone purely depends on mood. As far as I’m concerned all three are success stories. Though as far as longevity issues the full-size Z1R has the Z7 beat with expensive real leather lamb-skin pads. Also the Z7 was introduced before 4.4mm standardization, meaning you may need an extra cable before joining the other two in balanced use? Taking cables, I can’t recommend the Sony/Kimber 4.4mm (Sony MUC-B20SB1) as an aftermarket blessing enough! Controversy aside, the cable has moved the Z7 into the true flagship realm in my humble viewpoint.
Uses:
Where the full-size Z1R lends itself to Classical and Jazz, I can’t help but feel the Z7 yearns for electronic and general popular music. The Z7 offers more electricity and bounce, more brash and attitude! Yes........it’s all attitude here! The kind of attitude that ignores convention, careless yet exciting almost sleazy! Did I just call the prior Sony flagship sleazy.......yep, I did. The Z7 is a fun walk on the wild side................. a departure from anything as remotely stuffy and correct as the R-10. You can call me a nut too as I would choose the “wrongness” of the Z7 over the “correctness” of the R-10 any day. Go ahead and test me, I’m not trading.
The sound:
Where the full-size Z1R offers a more balanced and expensive take, here the Z7 meets us with a car stereo replay. Still due to it’s technical abilities all can be well and good whatever genre you move to. Funny too as all three of these headphones have you wonder what was removed as being just as important as what was included. It’s the frequency response character which actually makes room for the illusion of both more detail and a higher-wider-bigger-broader-thicker and more physical soundstage. So the illusion is real here, beautiful and exhilarating due to authorities and speediness. If you read about the naysayers explain fogginess in the lower mid-range it’s simply not here with the right cable and amp. The treble on the other hand is there. A boost which can get smoother with cable and amp synergy, but there is no denying this is a realistic U, like it or not. It’s when we get what’s going on and find the natural charm and uniquely special character personality, that love may be found here.
What’s missing:
.......well in a way it’s what is missing that allows for focus. The full-size Z1R has details and expanded midrange and treble textures, where the Z7 takes stuff like hi-hats and cymbal crashes and unashamedly directs them into place. If the Z1R is Francis Ford Coppola, the Z7 is Quentin Tarantino! So the Z7 has less information but it’s the critical place, the information is placed where this magic happens. It would be this lust for less smoothness this want for directness which has us reach for them. At times doing what is right is not the most fun.
The IER-Z1R:
All these headphones come in nice boxes. The though the IER-Z1R comes with a cardboard jewelry box, with drawers. Also for the record, the IER-Z1R comes included with the greatest of cables, both 3.5mm and 4.4mm balanced. Of all the headphones talked about here, it’s the IEM which is dependent on fit. Meaning they may not fit your ears, and if they don’t fit your ears the party is over. This single concept makes full-size headphones much easier to use in the end. Though for this extra effort we are gifted with a inner head-stage. As the tip sits inside your cranium the sound is both inside and outside your head. This concept in and of itself gets us a different perspective in sound display. Also I can’t help but reinforce the medical insertion of detail into your brain. The IEMs go the extra mile to put the music closer to your soul and under your skin. Also the display is like reading a normal size book where full-size headphones can almost take more effort to take in?
Now here’s the kicker!
After spending a couple weeks with the IER-Z1R you can discover one really important aspect while momentarily switching back to the full-size Z1R! Maybe this is a given going to IEMs? But ........the bass response of the full-size Z1R becomes noticeably less physical. This one aspect is actually fairly startling. It’s not that the full-size Z1R does not go as low, it’s that the IEM has a profound physicality, the physicality of a brick wall in the bass department. It’s strange to look at the full-size Z1R low-end as airy, as most view it as thick and substantial. Much of this must be due to whole build differences and functionality differences between IEMs and full-size headphones? Again the IER is injecting our music in a more robust and intensive way. If this ends up a subject of preference it’s because maybe there is no right or wrong at this stuff. So in contrast think sound farther away or sound inside of you.....almost.
Besides the above bass realizations, it really comes down to sound stage preference. The farther back presentation may be better for work when concentrating could be split? The IER-Z1R could almost be hard to think over, and it’s that immersion factor people pay for here.
Strangely this forwardness is also shared by the Z7. It’s the openness of the full-size Z1R which makes it the odd-man-out.
With these three difference soundstage signatures it’s as if we are offered three styles of the Sony house sound. Also I can’t help but put them in order of creation. The Z7 is slightly old fashion and classic, the full-size Z1R progressive and forward thinking and the IER-Z1R from long far off in the future. These three choices also reflect off each-other substantiating each special personality and quality. Beyond a persons mood, it truly could end up being musical genre preference which has someone make a choice? It could even be thought of as having different rooms in a house, where each area offers an emotion and a reality all within the household walls.
The Full-size Z1R:
More endgame maybe than the Z7 as price would have you guess. The packaging is more top of the line. Also many view the full-size Z1R as a correction for the Z7. And the perception of improvement and refinement is a nice gesture even if some fully accept and appreciate the Z7 for what it truly is. The full-size Z1R ends up the refined gentlemen, the Z7 the more playful kid. It’s both these characters which will attract praise. Both share the same physical feel in the hand (with the Z1R bigger} and both become easy to drive not wanting excessive power to sound good and come alive. Still it’s interesting how both have been criticized in much of the same parallel ways. It’s almost hard not to realize it’s partially the over-all Sony sound people are having issues with. The V or U curve makes room in the response by back emphasizing the midrange. The treble gets a lift from flat and both headphones include an increase in bass energy with the IER-Z1R getting more increase in sub-bass. Again most of my improvements gaining listen-ability came from correct amplification and cables. Where improvements took place was the areas of complaints. Some felt the all three products failed to display the needed midrange and were missing tones, or had an “off” tone. While at first thinking the IER-Z1R has advanced getting a more “mainstream” sound, I’m not so sure the midrange has really been increased all that much. What we have is an IEM with simply more perception of upfront detail. The midrange is what it is with the Sony house sound. Though after possible physical and mental burn-in there can be a normalization which occurs making everything seem correct.
Of course this correctness is still a matter of subjectivity and controversy. Though with all three added power seems to control the lower midrange “fog” and just like real “fog”; when it’s gone it’s gone! At times I listen for it but never notice it. Again though most of these produce a “fog-fest” when under-powered and there is no other way to describe it. And increase in damping factor will also increase perception of lower bass. Most of the time the bass may be increased by a dB, but come off as more due to bass clarity and speed. None of these headphones are responsible for a slow bass when driven right. Though in the end the shops are stocked with more models showing a more emphasized and revealed mid-range. Though after drinking the cool-aid and joining the Sony cult, we are not interested in more midrange, with more mids adding a feeling of thinness and lack of authority! Amazingly for Sony cult members Sony can do no wrong. Everything sounds balanced and in place. Beyond that stuff sounds musical, exciting and real-life. In short nothing is missing!
Combinations:
The audiophile is always looking for gold. Even if he has gold in his hands he is never totally happy........................always needing more gold. None of these attitudes diminishes the importance simply of music and the appreciation of it. It’s just that there is an underlying curiosity which causes new combinations to be sought after! First and foremost all this equipment was meant to go together. Not only does it go together but it’s designed to complement the headphones. With that said different combinations bring out and fine tune variations in playback personality. As a group..........even with our talked about equipment; we are looking for improvements. It’s safe to say most of these changes are subtle enhancements or corrections. Some may choose one equipment grouping, some another. These examples here, if anything help describe equipment character, still any one equipment comination would normally be enough. It’s maybe important to point out the full-size headphones do really really well with the 1A/1Z DAPs here. They may need to be on high gain setting and placed at high volume but neither gets any performance degradation at high volumes.
The TA amplifier:
Being a home unit it not only offers more power than the 1A and 1Z DAPs it was created and designed by a different engineering wing at Sony; responsible for the long running TA group. The TA offers a slightly laid-back sound as it has less treble boost than the 1Z and is more low end emphasized than the 1A. Still with all the headphones and IEMs here it offers the best imaging and separation. It’s a difference in soundstage offered which holds this rock-solid imaging and separates everything enough to analyze it. Over the DAPs the sound comes off slightly bigger. Also this clarity somehow makes stuff seem faster, which would maybe occur with better damping factors? More power means the diaphragms are started and stopped faster adding to better and transients and transparency. It’s easy to wonder why folks try to use a DAP with home headphones and expect total perfection. Though in defense these DAPs do a great job getting closer to desktop performance than what could be found even five years ago.
Sony 1A:
Much of the time it’s the 1A’s playful relatively flat response with added warmth...... ends so charming. It’s the IER-Z1R in this combination which ends slightly magic. Somehow the IER-Z1R adds dynamics to the 1A playback taking it to a both speedy and authoritative big town! Both the Z7 and full-size Z1R are fine with the 1A, but most of the time the 1Z starts to show why it’s top dog.
The Sony 1Z:
People always wonder if the step is the step to make. They like there 1A but wonder if the grass is greener next door; simple human nature really. The improvement is hard to quantify and you may read reports of folks thinking the differences are huge or maybe small. Really it just depends where you focus your attention. Besides a bass add and treble boost the 1A has a more one dimensional soundstage. All these headphones get their soundstage thicker front to back with the 1Z as well as an added U response. Though most of the time I find myself having newly discovered preference for the IER-Z1R and 1A; as there is some real magic there.
Disclaimer:
If anything reviews like these offer ideas for research. Nothing here can compete with a hands on listening test. Though if you think you like the Sony house sound, these are some of the best examples of where to find it. Cheers!
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Wow, what an amazing review! I second of what you say about the Z7s, they are the cool kid that doesn't care about rules, they just wanna play and have fun!
Thanks again for this thorough review! I hope people on the net who is looking for Sony top end can find this gem easily.
Great review, many thanks for sharing all this !! will give the Z7 a try soon
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