[falis]

 
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What bigshot thinks is also pretty much irrelevant to musical quality......

But I'll agree with his comment on Charles Ives.

 

[bigshot]

It helps to know who Charles Ives is!

 

[falis]

Ole Bob was pretty short-focused too then.  Check out Richard Thompson's 1000 Years of Popular Music.  
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Fahey is a great and important musician. When you mentioned him, it reminded me of this great quote by Bob Dylan...
...
Anyone who wants to be a songwriter should listen to as much folk music as they can, study the form and structure of stuff that has been around for 100 years. I go back to Stephen Foster. -Bob Dylan

 

 

[falis]

I hope you weren't responding to me, youngster.   I grew up in his hometown, which oddly enough revered him (because he was supposed to be famous), but I doubt very many people there would have appreciated his work.  Factory town and all that.
 
- Ed
 
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It helps to know who Charles Ives is!

 

 

[bigshot]

Yes!

Here is a great primer for learning about recent history...
http://www.donaldclarkemusicbox.com/rise-and-fall/index.php

Absolutely free and sure to open eyes and make people mad

 

[WisdomListens]

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Sure, thats your opinion. I don't know much about jazz.

You should look into it. If you had a wider frame of reference, you might understand better. Jazz is the greatest creative achievement of the 20th century. No other artistic contribution to society comes close to being as important or as diverse. It's on a par with the technological milestones of putting a man on the moon and connecting the world with the Internet. Today, we value technology and science and waste time with trivialities when it comes to creativity.

The world is becoming aesthetically illiterate, which is ironic when technology is providing us with access to information like never before. Why is this? I'd venture to guess it's because many of us don't have a solid grasp on the recent history of our own culture. We don't respect the arts enough to speak about it seriously and challenge ourself to go outside the box of irrelevance placed around us by commercial media.

In order to know who we are as a society, you need to make an effort to understand music older than the Beatles and movies older than Star Wars. You need to be prepared to research and debate and THINK about our rich popular culture heritage. It's fine to limit yourself to just what's in front of you or what appeals to your ignorance if you really aren't interested in the arts. But if your frame of reference is as narrow as an inch in front of your nose, you shouldn't pretend to know the big picture. When you come across someone who has a different opinion that's based on information you don't have, that's an opportunity for learning, not an excuse to get mad at them.

Is this directed towards me?
 
Yes I am learning a lot from everyone here including you. Instead of saying 'you are wrong' I said 'Sure, that is your opinion.' Are you learning anything from this?

 

[falis]

Looks like a very interesting read.  Thanks!
 
- Ed

 

[bigshot]

I grew up in his hometown, which oddly enough revered him (because he was supposed to be famous), but I doubt very many people there would have appreciated his work.

It's funny that even his neighbors didn't appreciate him as anything other than a good insurance salesman until Koussevitzky and Bernstein told them they should. Is there a museum dedicated to him? His is one of the most amazing and sad stories I have ever heard. He must have been strong as granite inside.

 

[scompton]

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 I'd venture to guess it's because many of us don't have a solid grasp on the recent history of our own culture.

I'd say many of us don't have a solid grasp on history of any sort, culture or otherwise, recent or otherwise.  It really isn't a recent phenomenon either.  I remember when I was in high school in the 70s, I bought an album from the 60s, probably a Beatles album.  One of my coworkers couldn't understand why I'd want to buy an album that was more than 3 months old.

 

[bigshot]

Is this directed towards me?

I'm just leaving a trail of breadcrumbs for anyone heading down the path.

 

[logwed]

My favorite genre is rock of the progressive variety, generally (sorry bigshot...). 
 
However, I have a great deal of respect for jazz, and I do enjoy listening to it. However, I derive most of the enjoyment from thinking about when I played, and recognizing the technical ability and creativity that the musicians have. I don't think that jazz is genre that people today can appreciate and relate to if they do not have a playing background/a very in-depth study of music. I know that if I hadn't played in a competition  big band for 4 years of my rather short life, I almost certainly would not be listening to jazz today. 
 
I think that a similar problem affects how the mainstream appreciates classical music, since it and jazz are both built around subtlety and musicianship. If you don't know how it is played from experience/study and you don't know what to listen for, you won't appreciate the music.
 

 

[WisdomListens]

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Is this directed towards me?

I'm just leaving a trail of breadcrumbs for anyone heading down the path.

What?

 

[bigshot]

I'd say many of us don't have a solid grasp on history of any sort, culture or otherwise, recent or otherwise.

If I can ask, why do you think that is?

When I was a kid, my Dad used to talk about Dickens, who wrote a hundred years before. I watched Laurel and Hardy and the Marx Brothers and listened to Glenn Miller and Al Jolson. My brother was, and still is a Civil War nut. My family was average, not overly educated. But the American culture of the century that came before was a part of our everyday lives. What is different today?

I have some theories, but since you are aware of it and it's your own generation, I'd be interested in hearing yours.

 

[bigshot]

I don't think that jazz is genre that people today can appreciate and relate to if they do not have a playing background/a very in-depth study of music. (snip) I think that a similar problem affects how the mainstream appreciates classical music, since it and jazz are both built around subtlety and musicianship. If you don't know how it is played from experience/study and you don't know what to listen for, you won't appreciate the music.

Holy crap! That's a really good theory! I'll have to think about it a bit, but it does make sense. In 1900, most parlors had a piano, and most families played or sang. Sheet music was to them what CDs are to us.

As we slide further and further into a passive role in creative culture, things might just continue to get worse and worse. Ouch! I don't want to think about that! It's bad enough already!

 

[scompton]

I've always been of the opinion, at least since I was a teenager, that people in general have little intellectual curiosity.  My guess is this has always been true, but the more easily consumed forms of mindless entertainment there are, the easier it is to fall into the trap.  When I was a kid, there were 3 networks, PBS and a couple of independent TV stations.  I think the average kid probably read more in the 60s and 70s.  I could be wrong about that though.  I do remember plenty of kids who wanted nothing to do with reading.