[bkelly]

Kelly,

Your comments are a little more difficult to answer. First off let me say that ideally I could easily use two different headphones setups. One cold-bloodedly accurate and the second charming to listen to. My favorite setup that I've heard so far, all things considered, is the Cary with the HD600's w/Cardas cable. It wasn't the most accurate or revealig thing I've ever heard but it was beautiful and if I had the money I would already have one.

When I first got into this headphone thing I was kind of hoping to go in that direction since my main speakers sytem is a little on the clinical side. In an ideal world the headphone setup would give me a different look into things than the main speaker. The mains are all transistor powered and I really wanted to go for the tube sound in my headphnhes system. That's why I've contacted you about the RKV. For my purposes the Melos is just not enough of what I want to hear. It is a great amp though. I ultimately want something like the Cary/HD600 setup at about a fourth of the price. Althugh I think the 590's are very worthwhile and should be seriously considerd by anyone looking in the under $500.00 range they are not the ultimate to me. I'm eventually hoping to do better.

I just fend for the 590's becasue I think they are high quality headphones and have been improperly and unfairly criticised and honestly I suspect it has been for reasons that have nothing to do with the way they sound. User sites like these should be about getting at the truth about different products. That's all I am trying to do. I'll skip any discussion about what is truth, the real meaning of truth and how true is truth anyway becasue I think everyone knows what I mean.

I haven't looked at my former posts but I don't think I have said that the 590's were flat. If I did it was in a weak moment. What I am trying to say is that on my system with the 600's in stock trim the 590' present a noticaebaly more realistic presentation of what the instruments really sound like.

The problem in comparing these two phones is they are characteristacally different (although they do sound like they came form the same family to me, in no way does the 590 sound like an AKG for an example). The 590's sins are ones of commision (detractors claim that they are too bright, too forward and too agressive) while the 600 hundreds sins are primarilly ones of ommison ( upper mid recesion, too veiled and a rolled off top end). For me and I'm sure a ton of other people I prefer a little excess for very critical listening and during the process of listening I just sort of take that into consideration and mentally edit it out. Reversely though I think you'll agree that is quite a bit more difficult to edit back into the recording things you are not hearing to begin with. For this reason alone I clearly prefer the 590 so far. With a cable swap things may be different. We will see.

Forgetting the 590 vs 600 debate I don't know that much about the HP-1000's. Aren't those discontinued. Right now I'm trying to buy a pair of RS-1's to try out.

ON your recommendation I'll definitely look for the Beyerdynamics.

Well, that's it for me. Got to run.






Best
Brian

 

[scrypt]

At a local engineer's suggestion, I'm going to look at AKG 501s, Beyerdynamic 250-80s and, possibly, 831s for mixing/critical listening options.

Much as I enjoy Kelly's ability to articulate his views and explain his findings regarding headphones, I don't trust his (or any audiophile's) final calls on headphones enough to buy them myself -- I've learned that on this forum. People have been raving about KSC35s and dissing V6s for as long as I've been here and for my purposes as a musician, composer and listener, both of those assessments have proved absolutely useless. I can't be bothered with deciphering the aesthetic behind someone else's imperfect sympathies, nor unpacking comparisons between the "reverb" of a w100 and the room sound of a "bad venue." I'll have to hear the phones myself.

Apart from that, certain tricks and tips I pick up here can be useful, and Kelly's explanation of the effect of certain third-party cords on the sound of 600s was admirably logical and clear -- as was his description of amp problems with 600s, a description with which I concur. But that doesn't mean I'll agree with his conclusions about cords or the viability of other kinds of headphones. I'd rather ask an engineer because, generally speaking, s/he knows what I want (in the brutal mercenary sense).

 

[richpjr]

bkelly,

Have you had a chance to try any of the upgrade cables for the 600 yet? If so, how do they sound?

Rich

 

[bifcake]

Are you guys still at it? I'm surprised to see that many of you are still alive. The way you were carrying on, I thought there'd be carnage and a pile of bodies on top of 600's and 590's. I'm fascinated by the fact that you guys are able to find things to say that haven't been said. I love it how you take a horse, kill it, beat it, gut it, skin it and then pick the bones clean. THIS is what it's all about!!!

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by scrypt At a local engineer's suggestion, I'm going to look at AKG 501s, Beyerdynamic 250-80s and, possibly, 831s for mixing/critical listening options.

I like the 250-80 more than the V6 in my brief auditions but it may not be as revealing. It's the closest to the V6 on your list probably. You've heard from everyone that the 501 is bass-shy. You may not have heard that the DT831 is also a little bass shy and also on the bright side. The DT831 is a fine headphone for listening (especially if you like horns) but I wouldn't be able to trust them at all for mixing.

A lot of musicians seem to still like the DT990 and DT770, but honestly, this is probably in large part due to have comfortable they are (that you can wear them for 8 and 10 hours). I'd like to spend more time with these two headphones myself.

If you really want the most clean and neatral sound for critical listening and mixing, I have three suggestions in this order (just see if you can audition them):
1: Stax (cons: open - so you can't use them for recording, requires own amp; expensive)
2. Grado HP-1000 (cons: open; no longer made; expensive; needs good high current dynamic amp to sound good)
3. Etymotic ER-4S (cons: in ear is not for everone; some don't like blocking the outside world so completely)

By all means, do not trust my or anyone else's opinions. They are, after all, opinions. But, for the record, I do not in the least consider myself an audiophile. Educated consumer, perhaps. You may notice that I dislike a lot of the things that audiophiles tend to really dig: Cary SEI, Audio Technica W100, Homes Powell... and that even the things they like that I think sound good are too inaccurate to make my wish list: Sony R10, Orpheus.

My posts aren't intended to convince anyone what to buy -- only to provide some adjectives to help people decide what to audition next if they're looking for certain qualities over certain others.

 

[bkelly]

Richjpr,

Yeah, I've done the cable swap and just as others have suggested they do make an obviuos improvment. My computer is in the shop and when it get back I will detail my observations about each.

In the meantime I will say that I liked the Clou Red the best although I don't think this is generally the most popular. "KR" on another thread says ti makes the 600 sound like they wee on steroids. I agree.

I'll get back to you in a few days.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

UPDATE: My previously-stated feelings on both 'phones in this thread were when I had only the HD590s. But today I bought a pair of the HD600s, and here are my feelings of both the HD590s and HD600s now:

YEE-HAA!! I've jumped off the HD590 bandwagon - and onto the HD600 train!!

 

[richpjr]

I guess this thread will never die...

 

[bkelly]

No reason for this thread to die.

I would go over my cable swapping experience in great detail but it is pointless since they made improverments in the 600's but not enough for me to favor then over the 590 so I am selling my 600's to a musician friend of mine who wanted them for "casual" listening (his word) but he didn't plan to use them for "criitical" (his word again) listening.

I should say though that after sending my 590's to Sennheieser to get a left earspeaker that matched my right I have been without the 590's for a few weeks and the more I listened to the 600's the more I found them acceptable although I still don't like them well enough to keep them.

 

[Chastity]

<starts sharpening an icepick>

 

[scrypt]

<<There might be better ways to attach an Equinox cable to a pair of 600s than applying one of those pointy hoo-has zombie bartenders use to pop six-packs of iced human livers -- Don't hurt yourself, please -- We're a community in pain after the terrible events on the three-tier thread and we care deeply, really we do -- Mediocrity against hate, sentimentality over self-injury -- those are my motti, and I mean that to the depths of my being>>

But to get back on topic: I just bought a human liver key-chain on the medical floor of Barnes and Nobel and was pleased to see they had every kind of body-part key-chain you could want: spleen, kidney, brain, lung, spinal column, you name it.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Today - just to confirm my original findings - I took both the 600s and my 590s back to the same Great Indoors store where I had purchased the 600s, and had a salesperson (who just happened to be a DJ) listen to both of those 'phones. The PCDP was a Sony D-EJ721; the amp, my TAH 4.5V. The music playing was Dave Brubeck's "Take Five", from his 20-bit-remastered Time Out CD.

The result? He said that the 600s are much better balanced than the 590s. The 590s sounded a bit shrill compared to the silky-smoothness of the 600's.

 

[Eagle_Driver]

And back at home I tried both my HD590s and my HD600s directly from the headphone jack of my Sony PCDPs. To my surprise, my HD600s were almost as loud as my HD590s at any given volume-control setting!

As to how the HD600s sound directly from the portable, they don't sound bad, maybe a little thin and with the highs attenuated.

 

[bifcake]

The 600's are really nice sounding phones. Of the stuff I've heard (I haven't heard grado), the only headphone that sounds better is the Orpheus.

 

[kelly]

Sometimes I just feel like taking a massive dump in a thread. Now is one of those times.

Eagle Driver
Posts like that really inspire me. I can't legally talk about what they inspire me to do, but moderators basically telling other users they "whine too much" when they disagree irks the holy living hell out of me. They know in the end that if they disagree too much, you can always close the thread, and will, at your leisure as you've done in the past.

Furthermore, you're acting like the grand authority on a headphone you've barely just purchased. You've listened almost exclusively with portable CD players and occasionally with one of the cheapest headphone amps available (it costs less than the headphones). Finally, out of sheer desperation to win your petty argument, you bring in your expert witness - a sales guy from the chain store where you bought the headphone... oh but wait, he's a DJ, too. You really discredit yourself.

I don't agree with bkelly on a number of things and the HD600 vs HD590 thing is one of them. I think it's too easy to mistake brightness for detail and I think that happens a lot even with well intended people with good equipment behind them. bkelly disagrees with me and that's fine. Forums are here so we can discuss and disagree sometimes. But at least he's a nice guy and I enjoy the conversations.