Yamaha YH-5000SE — a flagship from an orthodynamic headphones veteran!
Dec 23, 2023 at 12:43 PM Post #1,441 of 1,553
Oh whoops, I meant to no sonic success! It seems like to keep the unique midrange character you need a thin-ish pad. I had some mild success with a Fostex T50RP stock pad but I didn’t think it was any better than the Yamaha pads. The upper midrange dip remained with pad swapping so the main midrange trait that changed seemed to be the 1-2k rise, and messing with that too much made them sound even more cavernous to me.

For reference, I did measure the YH5k without pads for anyone else that wants to experiment!
This is pretty sick! If you've got some tubes it would be cool to see if you can capture how they bring up the midrange or if it's in people's heads. In regards to the pads, fenestrated pads get closer to that open feel the original pads. The jersey material and thin foam they use really does some the some fun things with the sound.

Also, regarding the midrange dip, I've found the most success with the YH-5000SE when I play into it rather then against it. I usually adjust my volume based on the vocals and it fixes a good chunk of the distant nature of the mids for me.

Interestingly, on this Whathifi article they specifically mentioned that they used the Utopia, D8000 and the HD800S to compare and benchmark the YH-5000SE so there is definitely something very deliberate about the midrange dip.
https://www.whathifi.com/features/y...rding-yh-5000se-journey-and-future-headphones
“complicated... not easy to make” structure, which is made out of magnesium – chosen for its plastic-like lightness but greater strength and rigidity, and a big contributor to how comfortable, and consequently suitable for long listening, the YH-5000SE are. (They weigh 320g, in case you were wondering, making them lighter than the Focal Utopia (490g), Final D8000 (523g) and Sennheiser HD800S (330g) – all models which Yamaha says were used to compare and benchmark the YH-5000SE from a sound quality perspective.)
 
Dec 24, 2023 at 6:11 PM Post #1,443 of 1,553
Sort of follows their "true sound" philosophy, in a way...

D8000 (only heard the pro) - tonal balance (from what I've heard from others)
Utopia - dynamics
Hd800s - sound image
1703459447060.png

That checks out, I know likely different measuring rigs and whatnot, but hello 3k dip!
 
Dec 24, 2023 at 6:29 PM Post #1,444 of 1,553
so there is definitely something very deliberate about the midrange dip.
I believe so. I've been using the Sony MDR-Z1R as my main closed-back headphone for the past two weeks and I've found that its midrange dip (between 4KHz and 8 KHz) is part of what gives the Z1R its very interesting and compelling spatial qualities. I went into more detail about it on the Z1R thread in this post. The gist is that the massive dip in the mid-treble forces vocals behind the main set of instruments, which matches the layout of a choir in a symphony orchestral performance. In such performances, the choir is usually positioned behind the orchestra, and the Z1R emphasizes this quality in a very immersive way. All of the spatial cues are exaggerated in a way that makes it seem like you're standing in the conductor's position and can hear the orchestra all around you, the soloists up front, and the choir in the back. It's not actually a matter of soundstage size, but of spatial positioning within that space. This works extremely well for orchestral music and I feel very immersed in the music. Everything sounds right about its tonal balance in combination with the spatial imaging in those orchestral recordings.

One of the things that the treble dip does is that strings and vocals sound somewhat muted or recessed. This can result in the Z1R sounding strange in studio-recorded music where the inherent spatial properties of the track don't align with the intended spatial tuning of the headphone. If I EQ out that treble dip, then strings and vocals cut through the mix more, they're positioned closer in, and they have significantly more texture, but those spatial qualities are diminished or lost. Then you're positioned like an audience member with the music in front rather than all around. And part-way EQing out that treble dip is also difficult, because half-measures often just result in a very strange sound where vocals and strings are more prominent, but their prominence doesn't make sense within the spatial presentation. It wouldn't make sense for the violins to be so clearly heard when the bass drums and brass are booming and blaring at the same time.

With the Yamaha, I'm guessing that they tried to go for a similar sort of spatialization, but with a key difference in how the midrange is presented. The YH-5K has a big FR spike at 1.5 KHz vs the Z1R's spike at 3 KHz. This is interesting because it's like the emphasis is on one harmonic series lower (fundamental vs 2nd harmonic, or 2nd harmonic vs 4th harmonic, etc.). 1.5 KHz is roughly where many of the throat-generated frequencies lie in vocals, so it should result in a richer, throatier tone to vocals rather than a "breathy" tone like the Z1R or many of the Hifiman models. I think, from my demo, that this is pretty accurate to the sound; the vocals are distant vs the instruments, like the treble dip would imply, but they are deeper/richer. However, this combination can sometimes sound like the vocalist is singing through a megaphone.

I've also drawn similarities with how sound is presented on the Stax SR-L700mk2. That one actually measures along the same lines as the Yamaha with a peak at 1.2 KHz and a general recession between 2-4 KHz. The Stax thus also has an interesting spatial presentation to vocals vs instruments, kind of a triangular soundstage with vocals far away at the point (imagine your head inside the triange and looking towards one of the points). But it's not as extreme, so it doesn't have as much of that megaphone quality as the Yamaha.
 
Dec 24, 2023 at 7:19 PM Post #1,445 of 1,553

That checks out, I know likely different measuring rigs and whatnot, but hello 3k dip!
I've said it before but I don't hear the recessed/dipped mids some of y'all are talking about (unless I use the suede pads) 🤷‍♂️, and neither does the bass roll-off like the graph suggests. Although I'm finding that only my SS amp is able to bring out the sub-bass the yh5k can be capable of.
 
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Dec 24, 2023 at 8:38 PM Post #1,446 of 1,553
I don’t think the bass rolls off so much as levels off vs 1kHz with the midbass boost. On an absolute level it has as much sub bass as something like the Susvara but the YH5k benefits perceptually by having a midbass boost to give it a thicker sound.

The main difference between the pads I’ve noticed in both leather and suede pads through subjective listening and measurements is that leather pads boost 1-2k much more and give the feeling of very forward mids, but in a lot of music I listen to, the leather pads’ extra shout makes fundamentals and early harmonics sound forward but the rest of the harmonics sound recessed which makes for a cavey sound for me.

Here are both normalized to 500Hz:
IMG_6915.jpeg


If you hear the upper mids sounding recessed with the suede pads, it’s probably the forwardness of the leather pads’ 1-2k rise masking the rest which I can see being the case.
 
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Dec 24, 2023 at 11:39 PM Post #1,447 of 1,553
YH5k benefits perceptually by having a midbass boost to give it a thicker sound
The pairing with the modwright ha300 gives it a thicker/weightier sound and adds some slam/impact. But in general I prefer not having extra mid bass boost in exchange for a more linear (and cleaner) presentation in the bass. To me, that's a more accurate representation of what you'd find in well designed concert halls. Although even with this amp, it can't quite achieve the level of bass quality to where I'd be personally satisfied. Still a good pairing synergy-wise though imo.
If you hear the upper mids sounding recessed with the suede pads, it’s probably the forwardness of the leather pads’ 1-2k rise masking the rest which I can see being the case.
I do agree that the leather pads are relatively forward but only slightly. The suede are noticeably more recessed (and dead-sounding) even compared to other hps I have on hand (d8kp, utopia, mysphere 3.1/3.2, & hd800s) on my personal chain.
 
Dec 24, 2023 at 11:44 PM Post #1,448 of 1,553
The pairing with the modwright ha300 gives it a thicker/weightier sound and adds some slam/impact. But in general I prefer not having extra mid bass boost in exchange for a more linear (and cleaner) presentation in the bass. To me, that's a more accurate representation of what you'd find in well designed concert halls. Although even with this amp, it can't quite achieve the level of bass quality to where I'd be personally satisfied. Still a good pairing synergy-wise though imo.

I do agree that the leather pads are relatively forward but only slightly. The suede are noticeably more recessed (and dead-sounding) even compared to other hps I have on hand (d8kp, utopia, mysphere 3.1/3.2, & hd800s) on my personal chain.

It took a lot of amp rolling for me and the most I’ve been able to enjoy it is with my Esoteric A100 with a speaker tap adapter. I also think my Luxman L550A is a decent pairing on the SS side but it does sound grander while being a little more controlled on the Esoteric.
 
Dec 25, 2023 at 10:18 AM Post #1,449 of 1,553
Dec 25, 2023 at 11:28 PM Post #1,450 of 1,553
Currently in Japan for Christmas and went to an audio store where they had these. To my surprise the price was so "affordable". I say affordable because 2K GBP is much more easy to swallow than 5K GBP.

I will probably bite the bullet and buy a pair. I had a very short listen at the store, but it was on an impressive sound system, listening to unknown tracks which made it harder to judge. I loved the design, i loved the fit and comfort.

In a few days i will go back to the shop and give it a good listen.

I got a meze liric, and a dt1990pro and i love them, but i have a feeling the YH will replace the DT (although they were purchased last month).

At home, i got a a schiit Vali 2+ connected to a schiit modi+ - anyone knows if these will be enough for the yammys?
 
Dec 26, 2023 at 1:35 AM Post #1,451 of 1,553
At home, i got a a schiit Vali 2+ connected to a schiit modi+ - anyone knows if these will be enough for the yammys?
I think it depends on how far you are willing to take the yammy. They scale and respond to higher end equipment like most totl headphones do.

Can you do better than schiit gear?
Of course, there's always something better.
Do you have to replace all your gear?
Not necessarily but be aware you are leaving a huge gap in performance.

You can always build a chain around the yammy in the future but if you want to get the most out of them, that usually means spending more than you'd like. But, again, it depends on how far you're willing to take them. Only you can answer that.
 
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Dec 26, 2023 at 2:53 AM Post #1,452 of 1,553
I think it depends on how far you are willing to take the yammy. They scale and respond to higher end equipment like most totl headphones do.

Can you do better than schiit gear?
Of course, there's always something better.
Do you have to replace all your gear?
Not necessarily but be aware you are leaving a huge gap in performance.

You can always build a chain around the yammy in the future but if you want to get the most out of them, that usually means spending more than you'd like. But, again, it depends on how far you're willing to take them. Only you can answer that.
Thank you for your reply. Spot on, I might add.
I bought the schiit gear last month (budget choices that pairs well with the dt1990pro) but I can see how the yammys will benefit from higher end equipment.

I'll get the yammys and see how they feel with the gear I got and take it from there. The way I see it, if I get the yammys, they'll probably force me to upgrade my gear at some point.

Thanks again.
 
Dec 26, 2023 at 3:04 AM Post #1,453 of 1,553
Currently in Japan for Christmas and went to an audio store where they had these. To my surprise the price was so "affordable". I say affordable because 2K GBP is much more easy to swallow than 5K GBP.
Japan is currently in a period of historic yen's depreciation. I think the yen will appreciate again next year. (I hope so.) If you want to buy it, now is the time!

Enjoy the rest of your trip!
 
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Dec 26, 2023 at 3:38 AM Post #1,454 of 1,553
Japan is currently in a period of historic yen's depreciation. I think the yen will appreciate again next year. (I hope so.) If you want to buy it, now is the time!
Yes, totally. That's the main reason I have the purchasing power. If yen would be equal to gbp, i wouldn't shell that much, so I'm grateful.

Maybe I'll buy two if its allowed and sell one for less the price they ask in the western markets.

Thank you. Wishing you happy holidays.
 

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