[Sha1rholder]

The connectors on the headphone-side are 3.5mm mono. From the photo, the bottom part of the plug may have some chase to fix it.

Source

I collected the impedance and sensitivity of flagship headphones. Lower sensitivity (higher zone in the chart) means you need more power, and higher impedance means (right area) you need more voltage, thus making it more difficult to drive in some aspects.



And this is the power [mW] necessary to gain 100dB.
Formula: Power [mW, 100dB] = 10^((100-Sensitivity)/10).

Say, HD800s has very high impedance [300ohm], but thanks to their high sensitivity[102dB], we do not need much power [0.63mW] to drive.
On the other hand, DCA's new Expanse has a very low impedance [23ohm], but because of its very low sensitivity [86.5dB], it needs much more power [22.39mW] than Sennheiser's.

We can say YH-5000SE needs more power than Mezes but not demanding like Hifiman or Audeze.



Power is a product of Voltage and current. Voltage vs. power is like this.




Generally, if a pair of headphones demands more power, driving them is more challenging. However, in more detail, ATH-ADX5000 demands a higher ability to supply voltage to an amp than Th909 though they need a similar level of power, for example.

Moreover, I focused only on the volume (SPL, sound pressure level). But the demanded performance of an amp or "drive-ability" is determined by many aspects, not only by how easy to get loud sound.

Conclusion: YH-5000SE will not demand so much power from the amplifier, but probably slightly more demanding than Meze's flagships.

Extremely grateful for your efforts, I've learned a lot from it! May I repost these to Baidu Tieba (a Chinese forum), with citation of the source?

 

[Sha1rholder]

The connectors on the headphone-side are 3.5mm mono. From the photo, the bottom part of the plug may have some chase to fix it.

Source

I collected the impedance and sensitivity of flagship headphones. Lower sensitivity (higher zone in the chart) means you need more power, and higher impedance means (right area) you need more voltage, thus making it more difficult to drive in some aspects.



And this is the power [mW] necessary to gain 100dB.
Formula: Power [mW, 100dB] = 10^((100-Sensitivity)/10).

Say, HD800s has very high impedance [300ohm], but thanks to their high sensitivity[102dB], we do not need much power [0.63mW] to drive.
On the other hand, DCA's new Expanse has a very low impedance [23ohm], but because of its very low sensitivity [86.5dB], it needs much more power [22.39mW] than Sennheiser's.

We can say YH-5000SE needs more power than Mezes but not demanding like Hifiman or Audeze.



Power is a product of Voltage and current. Voltage vs. power is like this.




Generally, if a pair of headphones demands more power, driving them is more challenging. However, in more detail, ATH-ADX5000 demands a higher ability to supply voltage to an amp than Th909 though they need a similar level of power, for example.

Moreover, I focused only on the volume (SPL, sound pressure level). But the demanded performance of an amp or "drive-ability" is determined by many aspects, not only by how easy to get loud sound.

Conclusion: YH-5000SE will not demand so much power from the amplifier, but probably slightly more demanding than Meze's flagships.

Hey, please check this out: https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones.../?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3

There are something wrong in your post

 

[jamesjames]

I believe so. I've been using the Sony MDR-Z1R as my main closed-back headphone for the past two weeks and I've found that its midrange dip (between 4KHz and 8 KHz) is part of what gives the Z1R its very interesting and compelling spatial qualities. I went into more detail about it on the Z1R thread in this post. The gist is that the massive dip in the mid-treble forces vocals behind the main set of instruments, which matches the layout of a choir in a symphony orchestral performance. In such performances, the choir is usually positioned behind the orchestra, and the Z1R emphasizes this quality in a very immersive way. All of the spatial cues are exaggerated in a way that makes it seem like you're standing in the conductor's position and can hear the orchestra all around you, the soloists up front, and the choir in the back. It's not actually a matter of soundstage size, but of spatial positioning within that space. This works extremely well for orchestral music and I feel very immersed in the music. Everything sounds right about its tonal balance in combination with the spatial imaging in those orchestral recordings.

One of the things that the treble dip does is that strings and vocals sound somewhat muted or recessed. This can result in the Z1R sounding strange in studio-recorded music where the inherent spatial properties of the track don't align with the intended spatial tuning of the headphone. If I EQ out that treble dip, then strings and vocals cut through the mix more, they're positioned closer in, and they have significantly more texture, but those spatial qualities are diminished or lost. Then you're positioned like an audience member with the music in front rather than all around. And part-way EQing out that treble dip is also difficult, because half-measures often just result in a very strange sound where vocals and strings are more prominent, but their prominence doesn't make sense within the spatial presentation. It wouldn't make sense for the violins to be so clearly heard when the bass drums and brass are booming and blaring at the same time.

With the Yamaha, I'm guessing that they tried to go for a similar sort of spatialization, but with a key difference in how the midrange is presented. The YH-5K has a big FR spike at 1.5 KHz vs the Z1R's spike at 3 KHz. This is interesting because it's like the emphasis is on one harmonic series lower (fundamental vs 2nd harmonic, or 2nd harmonic vs 4th harmonic, etc.). 1.5 KHz is roughly where many of the throat-generated frequencies lie in vocals, so it should result in a richer, throatier tone to vocals rather than a "breathy" tone like the Z1R or many of the Hifiman models. I think, from my demo, that this is pretty accurate to the sound; the vocals are distant vs the instruments, like the treble dip would imply, but they are deeper/richer. However, this combination can sometimes sound like the vocalist is singing through a megaphone.

I've also drawn similarities with how sound is presented on the Stax SR-L700mk2. That one actually measures along the same lines as the Yamaha with a peak at 1.2 KHz and a general recession between 2-4 KHz. The Stax thus also has an interesting spatial presentation to vocals vs instruments, kind of a triangular soundstage with vocals far away at the point (imagine your head inside the triange and looking towards one of the points). But it's not as extreme, so it doesn't have as much of that megaphone quality as the Yamaha.

I think your comparison with the Stax phones is interesting. I've owned a few Stax models over the years. I don't have measurements for the SR-007mk2, but on reflection I would say it has even more in common with the Yamaha than does the SR-700mk2 - for broadly the reasons you've outlined. Ultimately I moved on to the SR-009S - but thought the 700 was better than the 007. I'm tempted to suggest that anyone attracted to the Yamaha sound could also usefully try the Stax SR-007mk2. Even with a new Stax amp it's probably less expensive. The SR-700mk2 and Stax amp would be a step up again in my terms (and even cheaper!), having a more conventional tuning.

 

[HiFiDJ]

I feel like it's worth emphasizing how amazing of a job these Yamaha engineers did with the technical design of these headphones. I don't see much discussion how well-executed the acoustic design are on these. Yamaha is about the only other company that takes great care and focus on this specific aspect on their headphones (even on their flagship loudspeakers, check their website to see the details), and imo other companies should follow suit (I guess DCA can also be included in this). While they're open-back headphones and the drivers are close to your ear, you still have to manage the pressure and reflections inside the housing--it's like a mini room. And I think Yamaha does it best. Why other manufacturers don't prioritize this is puzzling...

You have the large internal housing (magnesium at that) which provides ample volume for frequencies, specifically low frequencies, to breathe. In addition, you have the Dutch steel that manages the pressure inside, how it works I have no idea but why people aren't asking about it is even more baffling. Inside the rear of the cup you have angled surfaces which reminds me a lot of well-built concert halls. Also included is the circular waveguide that sits right in front of the driver which I think contributes to its very focused presentation...

I think their acoustic design is a large reason why the yammy sounds so open in their staging, focused in their presentation, clean throughout the frequency range, and full-range all the way from the high frequencies down to the very low fundamentals. Anyway, just thought I'd put my 2 cents on them.

 

[Floorless]

Almost all reviewers I watched keep saying they are $5000 headphones. True that is what they cost right now but...

I think these should be considered as $3000 headphones, or even cheaper. After looking at the prices of the individual components in Japan (those are some expensive cables)

And breaking that down, I wonder what the non SE edition will actually cost.

357,500 Japanese Yen =
2,419.4769 US Dollars

Where in contrast, HD800s new rrp is ¥257,400 or $1799.95 USD

 

[SolarCetacean]

Where in contrast, HD800s new rrp is ¥257,400 or $1799.95 USD

But if you wanted a like-for-like comparison, then you'd have to do the same exercise with the HD800S: subtract the cost of the two cables bundled within the package to arrive at the true cost of the HD800S itself. The YH5K is a pricey headphone whichever way you cut it. Saying that it's a $3000 headphone where you're required to pay an extra $2000 in extras isn't a particularly effective advertisement in my mind.

 

[HiFiDJ]

Almost all reviewers I watched keep saying they are $5000 headphones. True that is what they cost right now but...

I think these should be considered as $3000 headphones, or even cheaper. After looking at the prices of the individual components in Japan (those are some expensive cables)

And breaking that down, I wonder what the non SE edition will actually cost.

357,500 Japanese Yen =
2,419.4769 US Dollars

Where in contrast, HD800s new rrp is ¥257,400 or $1799.95 USD

The 800s isn't in the same league as the yh5k, assuming you have a chain to back it up. The $5k price tag is appropriate in lieu of other flagship headphones, but the value of it is different for other people.

 

[Floorless]

Ya I added back the price off the pads and cable, or you could say removed just cost of extra cable, extra pads and stand. The OG HD800 I have did not include two cables, their cable costs are also half the price. In doing that I feel the performance of the headphones aligns better with the pricing. Clarifying the ¥455,000〜¥475,000 price as a package, extras added.

Mostly because I kept watching reviewers constantly hammering that they are $5000 headphones. I just don't see it that way.

Anyway,
I've listened through HA-L7A and didn't really fault comparing HD800s by the side with the same amp. More presence in lows, less general ear piercing feel with exception of a couple of piano notes I heard (in both headphones). Initially felt like voices were more distant. Need more time to form better opinion. But did not walk away thinking I'm done listening to these anyway.

 

[jamesjames]

The 800s isn't in the same league as the yh5k, assuming you have a chain to back it up. The $5k price tag is appropriate in lieu of other flagship headphones, but the value of it is different for other people.

I think this is simply wrong. In my terms (and I suspect the terms of many others), the HD800S is superior in all respects. That said, I don't see how it relates to the question of price. Views on the question of value can also be expected to differ.

 

[HiFiDJ]

I think this is simply wrong. In my terms (and I suspect the terms of many others), the HD800S is superior in all respects. That said, I don't see how it relates to the question of price. In terms of value, on the other hand, views can be expected to differ.

I was referring to his mention of the 800s. Seems like he was comparing the two, but I could have misinterpreted the post which would be my mistake.

That's fine if you think I'm wrong (it's an opinion after all based on my experience), but my key words were: assuming you have a chain to back it up...

I've tried the yh5k on other amps from (what I consider) the lower end side to the higher end side. It was obvious how they responded to them, and I can see where others are coming from when they say the bass was muddy, for example (and yes the bass was crap on lower end amps).

I obviously can't impart my experience on you, but I'm suggesting (with a passion) that the potential of totl headphones are unlocked with more highly resolving gear (with matched synergy). And the yh5k are flagship headphones.

It's impossible to have the same experience on entirely different chains.

 

[jamesjames]

I was referring to his mention of the 800s. Seems like he was comparing the two, but I could have misinterpreted the post which would be my mistake.

That's fine if you think I'm wrong (it's an opinion after all based on my experience), but my key words were: assuming you have a chain to back it up...

I've tried the yh5k on other amps from (what I consider) the lower end side to the higher end side. It was obvious how they responded to them, and I can see where others are coming from when they say the bass was muddy, for example (and yes the bass was crap on lower end amps).

I obviously can't impart my experience on you, but I'm suggesting (with a passion) that the potential of totl headphones are unlocked with more highly resolving gear (with matched synergy). And the yh5k are flagship headphones.

It's impossible to have the same experience on entirely different chains.

I'm afraid I think references to 'totl headphones' are meaningless and unhelpful. There are many headphones and many views as to whether particular phones require special amplification to let them do their best. In my view the HD800S will always sound 'better' than the Yamaha - irrespective of amplification. That will be my opinion whether or not someone considers the HD800S or the Yamaha to be within a class some describe as 'totl'. Particular phones may well perform differently with different amplification - this has nothing do with whether someone thinks they are 'totl'.

 

[HiFiDJ]

I'm afraid I think references to 'totl headphones' are meaningless and unhelpful. There are many headphones and many views as to whether particular phones require special amplification to let them do their best. In my view the HD800S will always sound 'better' than the Yamaha - irrespective of amplification. That will be my opinion whether or not someone considers the HD800S or the Yamaha to be within a class some describe as 'totl'. Particular phones may well perform differently with different amplification - this has nothing do with whether someone thinks they are 'totl'.

You're right, it's not all that helpful without proper context. But it's not something easily conveyed either. That's why I wrote an article with specific comparisons with all equipment stated up front. I'm obviously limited to what I have on hand, but at least you're aware of where I'm coming from. You either closely relate and find credibility in my opinion and experience, or you don't. But take everything with a grain of salt in the Internet anyway. Simple as that.

Although, in general, totl is whatever the company considers its flagship. And Yamaha most certainly considers this their statement piece.

You've never heard them on my chain and I've never heard them on yours, so there's already an obvious discrepancy. Doesn't matter whether you think higher quality amplification matters or not, the point being you didn't put your ears where I've heard them from. To clarify, that doesn't mean your experience is any less than mine. Both are simply data points.

I can go on and on about how the yh5k outclasses the 800s in spades from a performance standpoint (according to my standard of ideal sound based on my personal experiences), but like I said in my article, once you factor in your taste all bets are off. Some people love the 800s for what they are, quirks and all, and that won't change.

 

[HiFiDJ]

Ya I added back the price off the pads and cable, or you could say removed just cost of extra cable, extra pads and stand. The OG HD800 I have did not include two cables, their cable costs are also half the price. In doing that I feel the performance of the headphones aligns better with the pricing. Clarifying the ¥455,000〜¥475,000 price as a package, extras added.

Mostly because I kept watching reviewers constantly hammering that they are $5000 headphones. I just don't see it that way.

Anyway,
I've listened through HA-L7A and didn't really fault comparing HD800s by the side with the same amp. More presence in lows, less general ear piercing feel with exception of a couple of piano notes I heard (in both headphones). Initially felt like voices were more distant. Need more time to form better opinion. But did not walk away thinking I'm done listening to these anyway.

But you are not accounting for how much the cables, pads, and stand actually cost to make. So Yamaha could be selling it for a marked up price individually but when they bundle it with the headphones the price shifts in some way. They are accessories after all, so it's not as straightforward as you might think.

 

[Floorless]

Well HiFiDJ is right in that I compare, I have to compare with HD800 as that's what I currently have.

I got an itch to try a couple of other headphones and Yamaha entering the game again caught my attention. I like the look of the matching amp too. Still bewildered on the DSPs but that's another topic.

Again I need more time to really let what I hear sink in, but naturally initially I am trying to see if the price difference can be valued audibly, and initially do not see it as a near double the price audibly (being aware the difference is more and more nuanced the higher you climb).

I initially thought just the price gap would suggest it'll immediately be identifiable as in another tier, but initial listening seems it's closer, like maybe your paying for the build materials used more than anything. I don't think I would consider one a clear replacement for the other. Some songs that reach into the far ends of the frequency range were more enjoyable on 800 as Yamaha added too much weight, but I also felt many tracks were more interesting on Yamaha too.

So really, $5k?

Then thoughts that the SE includes more items in it's package seems to match the gap vs initial experience better.

I look forward to further auditioning.

 

[HiFiDJ]

I like the look of the matching amp too. Still bewildered on the DSPs but that's another topic.

I have a theory why, but it's just speculation on my part.

Again I need more time to really let what I hear sink in, but naturally initially I am trying to see if the price difference can be valued audibly, and initially do not see it as a near double the price audibly (being aware the difference is more and more nuanced the higher you climb).

In my mind, it's not mainly about the price (assuming this is money set aside solely for the hobby). I understand wanting to get the most out of your money... In that case, I'd just stick with the 800s (even though I vastly like the yammy more). But it's more how much enjoyment you'll get out of them. You can certainly go as high as you want, but if you don't enjoy it that much more then what's the point.