[roger7]

  Intona powered by Aqvox psu.
 
Pretty happy with the chain since it finally beats CD/DVD players
Maybe the chain with Uptone Regen and the Sbooster is better?
https://www.sbooster.com/botw-pp-eco-5v-6v/regen-usb-hub
 
If using the second chain I need to remove vbus blocker or feed the Intona by the Aqvox...don´t know what to do yet.

 
I think is cheaper to buy Teradak DC-30W and sbooster

 

[rb2013]

  Intona powered by Aqvox psu.
 
Pretty happy with the chain since it finally beats CD/DVD players
Maybe the chain with Uptone Regen and the Sbooster is better?
https://www.sbooster.com/botw-pp-eco-5v-6v/regen-usb-hub
 
If using the second chain I need to remove vbus blocker or feed the Intona by the Aqvox...don´t know what to do yet.

It'll be interesting to see.  I think this kind of system experimentation can really bare fruit.  Then just sell what you don't need.

 

[rb2013]

A couple of posts I found today from a CA thread: I wonder what became of this project?
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/lan-input-dacs-21722/index5.html

12-29-2014, 08:41 PM

#113​

​

Superdad

Music lover; Owner, UpTone Audio

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Originally Posted by tranz
Now if there is a well implemented LAN input where data goes

directly into

I2S but is clocked by the DAC that might logically solve much of

this.






Well that is the USB>Ethernet Audio Bridge solution that will be licensed

to OEMs by UpTone/Swenson in 2015. No OS, no big processor, no DLNA,

noIP addresses to fuss with;works with ALL player s/w (USB>Ethernet

dongle is and appears as an XMOS async-USB sound card capable of

32/384 or DoP--without drivers under OS X, with standard

XMOS/Thesycon drivers under Windows, etc.).

And Tranz, your ranking of SQ for the configurations you tired does

particularly surprise me.  But what did you have the NAS units connected

to as the renderer

(i.e. the device connected to your DAC)?

​

 

[onlythat]

Prot- I shall indeed post the comparison. Gino- the power 'lineage' is FAR less complex than ol' rb's. It's simply a Mac mini with two Audioquest Jitterbugs (one in series with USB cable and one in parallel in an unused USB port), a split Litespeed 2G USB cable (an rb fave) with power lead plugged into my small Teradak X1/x2 linear power supply which can power either the PUC or now the F-1. I have tried the regen actually with the PUC in the past and it only hardened the sound. The jitterbug on the other hand did to the sound what I had hoped the Regen would- make it less digital. Yes- I tried an LPS with the regen. Better than an SMPS but still a step backwards. So the Jitterbugs stayed and the Amber regen went.

Thus far- rb is bang on about the reliability of the F1. ( I got burned on the Mx u8 which dropped out and clicked all the time. That's why I didn't order the SU1-- too much money to gamble with). But this F-1 has now been playing in the background for break in constantly without a single issue or dropout for two days continuously! It was also recognized immediately by my computer and connected as a USB device instantly. Zero issues. The PUC similarly NEVER has dropouts or issues and was immediately recognized etc. so at the very least, to float my canoe, the F-1 will need to be just as reliable.

Already the F-1 in the very brief time I've had to compare, has demonstrated huge sound staging and is perhaps slightly more lit up on top than the PUC, but it is clearly settling in. There was definitely not as much bass as with the PUC on my brief day one listen but that is improving. I thought I distinctly heard soundstage 'height'- which is an impressive feat and one I'm not sure even the mighty PUC manages.

Thus far the F-1 is easily surpassing any other of rb's recommended converters - that's for sure. I wish I had more time to really closely a/b against PUC but haven't except for brief hour or so when I first got it and took that pic. (I've since put a rubber footer between PUC and F-1 to prevent shorts).

I can tell already the F-1 is certainly gonna end up being in the same league as the PUC and may even have already shown me signs of outstaging it as regards lateral spread, depth and even 'height'. Incidentally- another reason the PUC is so musical seems to be its timing- the PRaT it has- and the F-1 is showing early signs of possibly being even a bit pacier than the PUC. Jazz in my brief session with the F-1 definitely had my toes a tappin'.

Will keep ya posted. By the way- I certainly feel these elite DDCs have contributed as much or more (probably more) sonically to my system and ultimately, to my music, than most amplifiers I've owned. You may not be able to have a system without an amplifier granted, but the music coming out of the speakers is eminently more listenable and enjoyable with a great DDC. The PUC is certainly that and the F-1 is shaping up in that direction...

 

[rb2013]

2nd interesting post from CA thread on USB over Ethernet:
 

 

12-29-2014, 11:51 PM

#121​

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Superdad

Music lover; Owner, UpTone Audio

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Originally Posted by Jabs1542
Are you using the Ethernet wire as an interconnect cable

(not passing IP

traffic on a network)?






Still Ethernet packets, just pairing the two (through any 100Mbps or

greater Ethernetswitch) using MAC addresses instead of IP addresses.

John has writtencode that breaks apart the USB stack in a certain spot,

converts to Ethernet, then picks up part of the protocol again at the

other end. One of the cool things is all the code he has ripped out

(of the XMOS USB 2.0 reference source code) in the process.

And again, a big part of the SQ is not having the whole UPnP/DLNA

model in the way. BTW, both the PS Audio Bridge and the MSB LAN

modules are UPnP/DLNArenderers, with all the complexity and s/w

issues that come with it--just take a look at the big boards with

processors. With our USB>Ethernet Audio Bridge, theDAC end board

will have just a tiny Ethernet PHY chip, an XMOS chip (and clock

for it and the PHY), a couple of small logic chips, low noise voltage

regulators and some isolators. Will probably be about 40mm square.

​

 

[rb2013]

Prot- I shall indeed post the comparison. Gino- the power 'lineage' is FAR less complex than ol' rb's. It's simply a Mac mini with two Audioquest Jitterbugs (one in series with USB cable and one in parallel in an unused USB port), a split Litespeed 2G USB cable (an rb fave) with power lead plugged into my small Teradak X1/x2 linear power supply which can power either the PUC or now the F-1. I have tried the regen actually with the PUC in the past and it only hardened the sound. The jitterbug on the other hand did to the sound what I had hoped the Regen would- make it less digital. Yes- I tried an LPS with the regen. Better than an SMPS but still a step backwards. So the Jitterbugs stayed and the Amber regen went.

Thus far- rb is bang on about the reliability of the F1. ( I got burned on the Mx u8 which dropped out and clicked all the time. That's why I didn't order the SU1-- too much money to gamble with). But this F-1 has now been playing in the background for break in constantly without a single issue or dropout for two days continuously! It was also recognized immediately by my computer and connected as a USB device instantly. Zero issues. The PUC similarly NEVER has dropouts or issues and was immediately recognized etc. so at the very least, to float my canoe, the F-1 will need to be just as reliable.

Already the F-1 in the very brief time I've had to compare, has demonstrated huge sound staging and is perhaps slightly more lit up on top than the PUC, but it is clearly settling in. There was definitely not as much bass as with the PUC on my brief day one listen but that is improving. I thought I distinctly heard soundstage 'height'- which is an impressive feat and one I'm not sure even the mighty PUC manages.

Thus far the F-1 is easily surpassing any other of rb's recommended converters - that's for sure. I wish I had more time to really closely a/b against PUC but haven't except for brief hour or so when I first got it and took that pic. (I've since put a rubber footer between PUC and F-1 to prevent shorts).

I can tell already the F-1 is certainly gonna end up being in the same league as the PUC and may even have already shown me signs of outstaging it as regards lateral spread, depth and even 'height'. Incidentally- another reason the PUC is so musical seems to be its timing- the PRaT it has- and the F-1 is showing early signs of possibly being even a bit pacier than the PUC. Jazz in my brief session with the F-1 definitely had my toes a tappin'.

Will keep ya posted. By the way- I certainly feel these elite DDCs have contributed as much or more (probably more) sonically to my system and ultimately, to my music, than most amplifiers I've owned. You may not be able to have a system without an amplifier granted, but the music coming out of the speakers is eminently more listenable and enjoyable with a great DDC. The PUC is certainly that and the F-1 is shaping up in that direction...

Good news so far!  Give it plenty of run time - 200 hrs at least before any real critical eval.  As the bass will deepen and the tone gain richness.
I loved the PUC2 Lite - and it does bass so extremely well.  So after the F-1 it's my next favorite.  But give the F-1 some time - it's magic takes some time for the mind to digest and adjust too.  Spatial ambient clues of an extreme nature!
 
PS I completely agree on what these 'little' devices do - I'm shocked by it really.  Never in my wildest imagination would have thought they could achieve such audio changes - for the very good.
 
BTW Many on the CA thread who have had both - think the PUC2 sounded better then the Berkeley USB.
So Cheers to that!

 

[rb2013]

More good stuff on USB versus Ethernet - or some combination of the two.
 
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/lan-input-dacs-21722/index6.html
 

12-30-2014, 12:46 AM

#129​

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Superdad

Music lover; Owner, UpTone Audio

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Originally Posted by YashN
Any pointers on why it is? There could be similar issues with extra noise because of packets processing requiring power during spikes, but maybe wireless is easier to isolate?






Well, both USB and Ethernet are packetized systems with a PHY chip (crazy things filled with PLLs and overlapping phase clocks) at both ends, so both can, depending upon quality of signal, make their PHYs work hard to recover data, thereby generating "packet noise" on the ground plane, PS, and I guess even data lines.

Potential advantages for Ethernet include:
a) every port has an isolation transformer at its input;
b) if you use unshielded cable (or at least don't tie the shield drain wire at more than one end of the cable), then there is true galvanic isolation between the computer and the DAC.

In addition, we hope that some upstream issues of the computer quality will make much less of a difference when Ethernet is used. Present Ethernet solutions (virtually all DLNA based except for Miska's NAA, Apple AirPlay, or LMS products like Sonore's, etc.) may be getting this benefit, but perhaps there is still too much other hardware and s/w stuff in the way for those to be a slam-dunk to knock outUSB (sorry, mixing sports metaphors; I'm not much of a sports guy).

The prototype of our solution will have both Ethernet and USB inputs (we are using the same XMOS chip for both, and besides, John knows how to do a REALLY great async-USB input that takes clock from DAC and does best possible isolation), so there will be a very fair show-down between the two methods just before we start demonstrating to the licensees who are waiting for this. I am hoping/expecting that Ethernet input will match or exceed the equally carefully done USB input. Then we can worsen the computer at the other end and see how immune the solution is/isn't.

​

 

[onlythat]

This just in: significant other in nearby room trying to sleep so I can't turn it up much, but at the very upper limit of late night approved listening levels, the staging with the F-1 on the Bill Evans track 'Detour Ahead (take 2) as streamed from Tidal through Audirvana+ is positively cavernous, with one of those 'close your eyes (or don't) and the speakers don't exist; just the music' type deals. Also there's a LOT of detail (people talking and glasses clinking together etc) on offer. Yes- this is definitely better than hour one with the F-1 I'm tapping my feet even at these low levels so this thing can definitely boogie too. Yep- the F-1 is shaping up to be no joke.
I just really want a carbon fiber box so I can have a carbon fiber F1 like Schumacher.

Really staging and PRaT are damned impressive!! Could it be this newer xmos technology removes even more noise/signal jitter/timing error etc so the timing in particular is even crisper than with existing technologies? Might be...

I wanna add that if the PUC outperforms the BADA and the F-1 ends up outperforming the PUC (and that's a big 'if'), then rb just gave us all a 180 dollar piece of gear that outperforms a 2000 dollar piece of gear! A neat trick, eh? It's a good time to be an audiophile. Finally.

 

[rb2013]

Where is this wonderful device! 

.  I'm hoping coming soon!  Wondering if this is what the ICRON ASIC 1GB LAN USB extender does in some fashion - break the USB PHY apart, transmit it, then reassemble it - clean from all the PC junk...
 

 

01-01-2015, 12:39 PM

#173​

​

Superdad

Music lover; Owner, UpTone Audio

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Join Date​

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Originally Posted by MikeJazz
Superdad, can you confirm that your solution requires that the source computer has to be on all the time?






Yes, it does. Here is how it will be used:

a) The computer (anywhere in the house, and playing any locally stored, network stored, or web streamed files) gets a small dongle (about the size of your thumb) plugged into its USB port. An Ethernet cable--yes, a second one separate from the one already connecting your computer to your LAN--runs from the dongle to your Ethernet switch/router, or if you want, could run directly to your DAC.

b) The dongle looks like an async-USB2.0 XMOS-based 32/384 (and DSD128 viaDoP) sound card--because that is what it is! Just as always for XMOS, no drivers needed under OS X, licensed Thesycon drivers provided for Windows. So just like with any USB-connected DAC, you can use ANY player s/w you like, and ALL streaming services, web browser, whatever can send audio out through it.

c) At your audio system end--anywhere else on the same LAN (can't cross Ethernet bridges without some special configuring) a DAC with another tiny module (consisting of Ethernet PHY, another XMOS chip, clock for those, ultra-low noise regulators, and special format isolators) pairs with the dongle via MAC address and not via IP address (we did not want to have to include a web page into the device for setting IP address, etc.--keeping it totally simple). This module (which can include a USB input if the DAC licensee wants that as well) accepts the master clock from the DAC and outputs to the DAC's main board a special format signal (sorry, important part of secret sauce, having broad implications for future), where it is received by isolators, run through a flip-flop and finally results in a I2S signal for the DAC.

d) Remote control of the user's chosen player s/w (since keeping the computer in a separate room is a typical application) can be via whatever of the many available means the user chooses. Anything from tablet/phone remote app (Apple's Remote app is fine on iOS if one is just using iTunes), to screen sharing/VNC, to whatever is available specifically for chosen player s/w.
We are staying out of the software business. The whole idea is to offer 99% compatibility with whatever s/w you use, and to not have any s/w support headaches.
And no, it is not multi-room, multi-channel, or anything fancier than what I have stated.

I hope you can all see how the UpTone/Swenson USB>Ethernet Audio Bridge solution will be very different from DLNA or other server/renderer models. There is no OS, no big giant processing chips, no s/w system, etc. We are just breaking apart the USB stack, putting the data into an Ethernet packet stream, receiving at the other end and finishing the USB protocol (not nearly as simple as I make it sound; lots of serious code written). And of course, this being a John Swenson affair, isolating, clocking (from DAC master clock), and PS regulation are all state-of-the-art. We, and our prospective OEM licensees, will be carefully comparing SQ of the Ethernet link to USB (both on the same DAC-side module, and versus the client's existing USB input). If it is a winner, then 2015 will be a very big and busy year for us.

To make this post the last word for a while about what is still a work in progress, let me preempt the obvious question about broader availability: After we get a few OEM licensees under our belt, we intend to offer a DIY version that capable users can install in their DACs in much the same way as they do with a typical USB>I2S board. Such a kit version will most likely include USB input in addition to the Ethernet (why not? the XMOS is there; just needs another PHY chip and a USBjack), and low jitter/phase-noise audio clocks--while still offering the line in to run from DAC master clock. And of course our required USB>Ethernet dongle will be included for the computer end (I guess if someone wanted our board set just for the USB input we would knock something off the price to omit the dongle from the kit).
A stand-alone, external box retail version does not make sense (unless we output I2S), but we have some radically different other ideas for when we get there--a long way down the road.

Thanks all for the interest. But please, no more questions on this for a while. We must first get it out there and prove the concept.

HAPPY NEW YEAR,

​

 

[rb2013]

This just in: significant other in nearby room trying to sleep so I can't turn it up much, but at the very upper limit of late night approved listening levels, the staging with the F-1 on the Bill Evans track 'Detour Ahead (take 2) as streamed from Tidal through Audirvana+ is positively cavernous, with one of those 'close your eyes (or don't) and the speakers don't exist; just the music' type deals. Also there's a LOT of detail (people talking and glasses clinking together etc) on offer. Yes- this is definitely better than hour one with the F-1

I'm tapping my feet even at these low levels so this thing can definitely boogie too. Yep- the F-1 is shaping up to be no joke.
I just really want a carbon fiber box so I can have a carbon fiber F1 like Schumacher.

Really staging and PRaT are damned impressive!! Could it be this newer xmos technology removes more noise/signal jitter/timing error etc so the timing in particular is even crisper than with existing technologies? Might be...

My 'reputation' remains unsullied!
 
Yes! SS is just cavernous  - Miles - 'Sketches of Spain' SACD that I digitalized at 32/176k playing on my office system as I write this.  Mind blowing horn work - he's right here!  Playing behind me I swear.
 
PS You should hear it with a W4S Recovery/LPS and this freaking 1GB LAN USB Etherent deal - just crushes my old $30K analog rig to pieces

 

[onlythat]

Yes- soundstage shaping up to be cavernous as advertised; but as for your hard-won reputation and its potential degree of sullification, well... we'll just have wait for more break-in before deciding with just how big a boot (if at all) the PUC gets booted l! Preliminarily I am indeed suspecting you will still be able to leave your house without a trench coat, a fake moustache and a rakishly tilted beret.
Of course, if that is already your preferred daily attire, then no issue

I definitely want a Wyred Revovery. Man! do I need yet another LPS for that or can I use the DC out from my Teradak like I did for the regen?

 

[wakka992]

Hi guys,
 
for ensuring galvanic isolation on the USB to Ethernet extender, is there any Ethernet Cable without copper out there? I don't know, a short fibre optic one?  
 
I think that otherwise Power on Erhernet would be available in the connection nullifying the Galvanic Isolation... 

 

[Caper]

Playing with my F1 chain and again impressed how it sounds.
My Hegel H80 pushes my small Klipsch to new hights.
 
95% volume playing Boris Blank Fat Roller.
Streaming Tidal Hi-Fi.
So smooth and detailed and full of bass even if I am pushing the system to maximum potential.
It doesn´t get better than this from such a small system.
 

 

[Currawong]

The box arrived and I've been having fun with drills and files. Now I'm going to have to unsubscribe I think, lest I start getting tempted to buy more gear to tweak with! 

 
  

 

[roger7]

  Hi guys,
 
for ensuring galvanic isolation on the USB to Ethernet extender, is there any Ethernet Cable without copper out there? I don't know, a short fibre optic one?  
 
I think that otherwise Power on Erhernet would be available in the connection nullifying the Galvanic Isolation... 

 
First, ethernet connection implies galvanic isolation as a standard (if we are talking of real USB ethernet extenders). Otherwise one broken device on the network would be able to destroy other devices on that network. And RJ45 cables are made of copper
Second, there are fiber connections but are mostly used for longer runs and greater speeds than standard 5e (or 6/6a/7) RJ45 cables. And of course fiber optics need different NIC (not standard RJ45 port). Sure, there are USB fiber extenders.