Xin Channel IV amp appreciation thread
Oct 8, 2006 at 10:37 PM Post #16 of 67
Quote:

Originally Posted by kugino
here's something i found on my supermini IV (with the latest and greatest updates
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)...crossfeed works fine until you really pump up the volume. then it reverts to separating the L and R channels as though crossfeed were off...turn the volume down again and you can hear the crossfeed work again. i don't know if this is true with just my supermini or if others can replicate this problem.



That's the opposite of how my non-updated Mini behaves. I've commented more than once about it...xfeed sounds like mono at normal volumes, then sounds like it should at 95%+ volume.

One problem that I've noticed with my Mini is a crackling sound with bass heavy music. This is with bass boost on, added impedance, low gain with my ER4P. It only happens at high SPL. It happens with fresh Alkaline and full charge NiMH. At first I thought I had damaged my ER4P but tested with the same offending track amping with my PA2v2, no crackle. At first I thought it may be that the amp was overdriven because the track had been EQ'd with added deep bass(30 & 60 Hz). I make analog copies from DVD concerts and tweak where needed...then I noticed the same problem with bass heavy MP3 tracks ripped from CD, no EQ (EAC>LAME).

I plan to send mine back next week after my PC MkIII-USB arrives.
 
Oct 11, 2006 at 2:51 AM Post #17 of 67
Just got done listening to Thom Yorke's "The Eraser" on my Maxed Out SMIV that arrived today (should have got it yesterday, but it was Columbus Day).

Through my Imp900, Xin amp and Dt770-80 - ****! It hasn't been burned in yet, but I am happy.
 
Oct 21, 2006 at 1:59 AM Post #18 of 67
I received SMIV after all critical upgrades. I swapped the opamp in channel 4 and 3 with op275 as I didn't like the sound of default 14558D. R and L uses default OP2134.
SMIV is having wonderful sound with widest and deepest soundstage I have ever heard. Bass is very energetic and deep. Mids are sweet and have 6th 7th row presentation. Trebles are crisp and very fast. Timbre is very accurate.
The sound is super clear with wonderful layering. I can hear the exact placement of instruments in space. It gives even most subtle details I have never heard before with my recordings.
After the upgrades the gain has some boost. Before I have to switch on gain boost, for my Hd580. Now it drives my HD580 to ear bleeding levels. Bass boost is very impressive. It gives the right amount of bass energy without over-powering to boomy bass.
I thought default OPAMP in 3\4 channel still had some veil over trebles and Mids. Xin feed doesn't give any impression on modern music for me at least.
It has only 25 hours of burn in. I will again post when it has full burn in.
With OPAMP rolling, bass boost, gain control, internal fast charging with trickle mode and auto off the amp is a wonderful little box which is well worth of the money and wait. I think my quest for ultimate portable amp ends here (Till I get upgraditis AGAIN!!
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)
 
Oct 21, 2006 at 2:07 AM Post #19 of 67
Did I tell that there are several dozens of OPAMP configurations tested by various fans at XIN Forums? OPAMP rolling gives one, the cutting tools to shape the SQ to his preference. Swapping is very easy and do not demand any expertise in electronics. I will later list the known OPAMP combinations here. It makes XIN amp the ultimate tweaker's amp.
 
Oct 21, 2006 at 3:07 AM Post #20 of 67
I'm somewhat overwhelmed with the info on Xin's site and forums. I was thinking of placing an order but just can't get comfortable with a default request. I may post my own thread here but since you seem to be happy with yours do you have any idea how this config would sound?

L-R: AD8066
L-R Buffers: BUF634 (Low-C)
3/4: OP275 or OPA2134
3/4 Buffer: 2X HA5002

I'm looking for a big simle out of the box and what I'd like to hear is: large soundstage, background detail brought forward, mellow but smooth highs and punchy bass.
 
Oct 21, 2006 at 4:08 AM Post #21 of 67
Yeah After going through the information in the forum I think that is one of the best configurations. I thought Ron used High-C for R\L buffers. Ron and GOTO seems to be in agreement that HA5002 is better buffer for the 4th and 3rd channel. I can definitely say OP275 is better option for 3rd and 4th than stock configuration. Other option would be Op2134. But if you want more energetic bright sound Op275 is the better option than dark op2134. I have not tried yet but AD8066 seems to be one of the best in R\L channel according to Ron.

I am writing up a sort of opamp guide and list for XIN amPS and will post it here.
 
Oct 21, 2006 at 4:16 AM Post #22 of 67
But I think you will run into a pleasant surprise when you listen to the default with OP275 in 4rd\3rd. Why don't you go for that and later get your dream configuration?
 
Oct 21, 2006 at 4:34 AM Post #23 of 67
I'm not too savy when it comes to the tech stuff so I'd rather start with what some of the experts seem to think sounds pretty tip top and work down from there (meaning less complicated) if I want to change things up.

edit - what all would I need to add to cart for:

AD8066 (dual channel) for L-R, Lo-C BUF634 for L-R buffer. OP275 & 2X HA5002 for 3/4.?
 
Oct 21, 2006 at 5:07 AM Post #24 of 67
JuSt add default into cart and mention your requirements in the "If you have any special requests:" field!
 
Oct 21, 2006 at 5:10 AM Post #25 of 67
Xin IV amps: OPAMP ROLLING GUIDE AND RECOMMENDATIONS.

I thought of putting up a guide as the data are scattered everywhere. It will make easier for the newbie’s and shall we make it a habit to list down the tested and recommended opamp configurations here for the benefit of all?


OP-AMP Rolling

• Take off the lid in Supermini.
• For Supermacro, take off the 2 back screws, remove back plate and batteries. Take off the 2 front screws with a 5/64" socket wrench and the volume knob with a 1/16". Remove the front panel. Before you move the circuit boards out of the case, make a mark on the case bottom; so later you can put the boards back in the original direction. This is important for proper case grounding. From the back, push the circuit boards out of the front (don't push on the battery contacts!). Lift the upper board so you can access the opamps and sockets.

imgp2200a.jpg


imgp1965.jpg


imgp2210.jpg


In above picture SMIV (Macro) has two OPA134s(single OPAMP) in L\R with 2X HI-C BUF634 in L\R buffer channels. It has OPA2134(Dual opamp) in 3rd and 4th channels with 2X Lo-C BUF634s in thier buffer sockets. If someone uses dual opamp like OPA2134 in L\R it has to put in the position illustrated in the second picture. it will look like,

imgp2228.jpg



Use a small flat screw driver to lift the old opamps. Remember its direction - the first pin is at the left bottom; you'll put in the new opamps the same way. It might make things easier if you take out the buffer for channels 3&4 first in the case of supermacro.
• Before you put the new opamps in, push the pins (legs) against a desktop surface to make sure they become vertical. Fresh opamps have legs slightly stretched out making them too wide to be inserted into the sockets holes.
• Align the legs to the sockets holes (first pin to the left bottom hole) and push the opamp down into the socket with a flat screw driver.
That's it. A tweezers or classic Swiss Army knife are handy tools for rolling opamps. Before you put the circuit boards back into the case, you may test the effect using the included AC adapter. This way, you can easily swap, test and compare more opamps.

Source: macro manual

OPAMP TABLE

Supermacro
L\R Channel-OPA2134, OPA134, OPA2107, NE5534, OPA627, AD8397, OP275, AD8066, AD8620,

3\4 channel -OP275, OPA 2134, AD8397*, JRC4580,

Buffers------ HI-C BUF634, Lo-C BUF634, HA5002**


Supermini
L\R Channel(OPA2134, AD822, AD8620, ST-WV: need buffer) AD8397#, AD8656# and AD8616#, solid tube, LM8272,

3\4 channel AD8397*, AD8656 and AD8616

Buffers-----LMH6643***

* need a special version for 3\4 channel
**must be mounted on special adapters
*** Supermini can not take BUF634 and HA5002 as beffers
# They have internal buffers

Important notes

Buffers

These are output drivers used in L\R and 3\4 channels when the opamps doesn't have the output capacity due current and voltage limitations. For Supermacro, Buf634 and Ha5002 can be used as mentioned above. In case of Buf634 220 ohm resistors are soldered between pin 1 and 4 of BUF634s to set them into Hi-C mode for better sound. Lo-C BUF634 (without 220ohm R) seems to have more smooth and warm sound. It has the benefit of having longer battery life.

Ha5002 is set to High C internally. HA5002 is thought to be better buffer for the 4th and 3rd channel in Supermacro. They must be mounted on special adapters.

As AD8397, AD8656 and AD8616 has internally built buffers they do not need buffers for functionality. When they are installed in L\R or 3\4 one has to bypass the buffer socket. This can be achieved with a dummy opamp provided by Dr. Xin or connecting the pin 1 and 3 of OPAMP socket with a wire or resistor lead. The pin 6 and 8 too should be connected likewise.

imgp2346s.jpg


Supermini can not take BUF634 and HA5002 as buffers and only buffer available is LMH6643.

For more refined and high end sound one can stack the buffers. Stacking is done by soldering two or three buffers of same class on top of each other to their corresponding same pin siblings. (eg: pin 1 to pin 1, pin 2 to pin2 .....etc,) This will drain more power from the batteries and limit the battery life.

Stacked buffers

imgp2217.jpg


OPAMPs

Some of the really good opamps used in the Mini can be destroyed if used in the SM-3/4 amps due to the higher voltages used. So when an new opamp is used in Supermacro or Supermini it is always prudent to check the DATA sheets of the OPAMP, to see whether its optimal operational voltages are met in the amp. Failing to do so will give either suboptimal performance or fried OPAMPS!!! The operating voltage inSupermacro is 12V-15V depending on the power source. Supermini without Dc-Boost provides voltages below 5V (3V). If OPAMPS with more higher voltages are used with supermini one has to enable the DC to DC boost (5.5V) with the jumper inside.

SOURCES FOR OPAMAP DATA CAN BE FOUND HERE!

http://www.fixup.net/talk/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1970



There is no DIP8 version of the AD8397 and AD8620. they need an adaptor.

OP275 and AD8610 are more detailed than OPA627, let alone OPA2134. BB chips tend to be rich and dark.

AD8066 (needs an adapter), OP604 and AD743 (single channel) supposed have better imaging and soundstage.

OPA2134 or OP275 in 3rd and 4th, seem to work better for those, who need energetic and bright sound with smooth extended treble.

For IEMs AD743 seems to be a good choice in L\R.

Please let your opinions flow to make it better!
 
Oct 21, 2006 at 5:19 AM Post #26 of 67
Quote:

Originally Posted by iamjacksears
I'm not too savy when it comes to the tech stuff so I'd rather start with what some of the experts seem to think sounds pretty tip top and work down from there (meaning less complicated) if I want to change things up.

edit - what all would I need to add to cart for:

AD8066 (dual channel) for L-R, Lo-C BUF634 for L-R buffer. OP275 & 2X HA5002 for 3/4.?



The best expert you have is your own ears. Some do not like the sound of tubes in amps but I prefer them to solid state. Some feel certain amps are not truthful to the sound but what is? Go to any concert and you are not going to ever hear what you hear at home on a good system or on your headphones. Humidity in the same concert hall will affect high to low frequencies. The number of people and where you sit. So what is truthful to the sound. Nothing is and not even the original recording site is truthful. So what? So personal taste comes into the equation, which may or may not be what many or a few prefer in their sound. That is why it is good to have a base and then try out some other opamps. I must add that there are few if any portable amps that can be configured like the Xin amps and for that matter there aren't any home units that I know of that can. The way I have my system configured I find no need to have a "home unit" as this covers it and drives my HD650 just great with a large open and airy soundstage and solid tuneful bass (on good recordings). I do notice that on poorer recordings I notice they do not sound as good as they used to as the blemishs are shown up all the more, which is fine with me as I don't like to gloss over anything except my short comings. :^)
 
Oct 21, 2006 at 7:04 AM Post #27 of 67
Shall we list down the tested combinations with their sound signature in the following posts?

Mine is,

OPA134 X 2 in L\R with HI-C BUF634 X2
OP275 with HI-C BUF634 X2

and I love the sound! my next step will be to swap AD8066 for OPA134!
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Oct 21, 2006 at 7:13 AM Post #28 of 67
I thought of writing it as LR.OPA134X2 + HBuf634\34.OP275 + HBuf634

Sort of convention.

SUPERMACRO

(LR.OPX1 or2 + Buffer\34.OP + buffer)

0 for buffer if no buffer and St after buf if stacked,

So iamjacksears' combination will be,

LR.AD8066X1 + Hbuf\ 34.OP275 + HA5002

LR.OP627 + Hbuf(St)\ 34.Op275 + Hbuf(st) Maxxed out version


Supermini

LR.OP + Buf\34.Op (If there is no buffer 0 for buff)

eg.
LR.OP275X1 + LMH6643 \ 34.OP275
LR.AD8397 + 0 \34.Ad8397 (default)



Shall we follow that too? [
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]
 
Oct 21, 2006 at 7:27 AM Post #29 of 67
So some tested configurations are,

LR.OPA134X2 + Hbuf \ 34.OP275 + Hbuf
LR. opa2111X1 + Hbuf \ 34. opa2134 + HA5002(St) (St stacked)

Configurations with better imaging

LR.AD8066X1 + Lbuf \ 34.OP275 +Ha5002
LR.AD743X2 + Lbuf \ 34.OP275 +Ha5002
LR.OP604X2 + Lbuf \ 34.OP275 +Ha5002

For IEMs,

LR.Ad743X2 + 0 \ 34.OPA2107 + Lbuf ( o for bypass buffer)
LR.OPA.2107 + Lbuf \ 34..OP275 + Lbuf


Some others,

LR.OPA128smX2 + Hbuf \ 34.OP275 + HA502

Tested Supermini configurations,

LR.OP275X1 + LMH6643 \ 34.OP275
LR.AD8397 + LMH6643 \ 34.Solid tube
LR.OPa2134 + LMH6643\ 34.LMH6643
LR.Ad8616 + 0 \34.AD8656 (0 No buffer)
LR.OP275 + LMH6643\34.AD8397
LR.AD8397 + 0 \34.Ad8397 (default)


More will come.........
 
Oct 21, 2006 at 7:55 AM Post #30 of 67
Quote:

Originally Posted by kaushama
OP275 and AD8610 are more detailed than OPA627, let alone OPA2134. BB chips tend to be rich and dark.


I beg to differ here.
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If you want true detail, go with the OPA627.

Quote:

Lo-C BUF634 seems to have more smooth and warm sound. It has the benefit of having longer battery life.


To my ears, between low and high bandwidth, it was the clear opposite - even with just the PX100.
 

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