[rlw6534]

Yes normal 3.5mm single ended is just that, normal single ended.

S-Balanced is designed to reduce the cross-talk that "may" occur in the headphone/IEM cable itself by keeping the ground connection in the wire separate, L/R channels still share a common ground at the amp so we still have Gnd/Left/Right signals it's simply that the grounds for the left/right channels are on separate conductors with S-Balanced connections.

This if different from true balanced which has R+ R- L+ and L- signals for true differential operation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_signalling

So S-balanced is still single-ended, just grounded at the amp rather than the plug (and only if you use 3.5 mm TRRS)? And the 4.4 mm is true-balanced/differential. Thank you for your patience trying to explain.

 

[iFi audio]

Yes normal 3.5mm single ended is just that, normal single ended.

S-Balanced is designed to reduce the cross-talk that "may" occur in the headphone/IEM cable itself by keeping the ground connection in the wire separate, L/R channels still share a common ground at the amp so we still have Gnd/Left/Right signals it's simply that the grounds for the left/right channels are on separate conductors with S-Balanced connections.

This if different from true balanced which has R+ R- L+ and L- signals for true differential operation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_signalling

Just to make it clear, a 3.5mm S-Balanced socket works with both; regular 3.5mm single-ended TRS plugs and 3.5 balanced TRRS plugs, so in that sense it's mechanically adaptive. One can use whichever plug with that socket and it will work. But the difference upon connecting a regular 3.5mm single-ended TRS plug to our S-Balanced socket (...versus regular single-ended sockets) is in lesser cross-talk and here's where S-Balanced is better than regular SE outputs.

So S-balanced is still single-ended,

It is if you use a single-ended 3.5mm TRS plug, but it accepts both TRS and TRRS.

 

[MarkParity]

Unpacked and working OK. As I didn't have a balanced amp I'm testing Line in mode first out of my N6ii+A02. There seems to be plenty of clean power available. MrSpeakers (I have the 1st version) Aeon Flow seem to agree as well.

The USB power indicator I'm using showed 1.6A with the unit switched off and 1.2A with the unit on, presumably to reduce the temperature when using it at the same time as charging.

.

 

[rlw6534]

Just to make it clear, a 3.5mm S-Balanced socket works with both; regular 3.5mm single-ended TRS plugs and 3.5 balanced TRRS plugs, so in that sense it's mechanically adaptive. One can use whichever plug with that socket and it will work. But the difference upon connecting a regular 3.5mm single-ended TRS plug to our S-Balanced socket (...versus regular single-ended sockets) is in lesser cross-talk and here's where S-Balanced is better than regular SE outputs.



It is if you use a single-ended 3.5mm TRS plug, but it accepts both TRS and TRRS.

Now I'm confused again.

 

[Voxata]

Thank you. But to be honest, I do not need full reviews to be able to get an answer for my single question. My main concern with Signature and specially Diablo was the temperature if I charge the device while playing music. If this will be the case with the new unit as well, I will maybe not purchase it. But I have no pressure and looking forward

I'll keep an eye on this when I review the unit. I can't confirm anything without having it in hand. I'll drain the battery a good bit and then connect it and use.

Now I'm confused again.

Me too. When connecting 3.5mm TRRS is the connection truly balanced with full power or is it the same as using TRS?

 

[531412]

I'll keep an eye on this when I review the unit. I can't confirm anything without having it in hand. I'll drain the battery a good bit and then connect it and use.

Thank you.

Me too. When connecting 3.5mm TRRS is the connection truly balanced with full power or is it the same as using TRS?

No. You have the benefit of the improved cross talk compared to normal SE, but not the benefit of additional power as you would have with a real balanced hp output.
To say it in easy words: It is somewhere in between real SE and real balanced.

 

[emilsoft]

Just got this yesterday, charged it to full and now finally can take an audition with Apple Music Lossless on iPhone 12 Pro Max. My initial impression: Wow! Love the neutral (or a little hint of warmth) tone and very musical! I have everything set to default (no XSpace / no XBass) and exactly what I am expecting!!

I own a hip-Dac (which I will pass it to my brother free), a Cayin N3Pro and a FiiO M11 Plus Ltd. Yet this new gear will certainly become my companion for the coming weeks.

Very happy to have this!

How does it compare to your Fiio m11 Plus and Cayin dap? I've heard both so your opinion will give me a nice baseline on what to expect and will be much appreciated

 

[rlw6534]

Thank you.

No. You have the benefit of the improved cross talk compared to normal SE, but not the benefit of additional power as you would have with a real balanced hp output.
To say it in easy words: It is somewhere in between real SE and real balanced.

But the previous post from iFi said the TRS had improved cross-talk vs normal SE? I don't understand. The grounds (-) are still tied together at the plug.

 

[MarkParity]

But the previous post from iFi said the TRS had improved cross-talk vs normal SE? I don't understand. The grounds (-) are still tied together at the plug.

I suspect the improvements between a normal SE output and an Ifi S-Balanced input that @iFi audio are referring to are internal to the amp, the grounds are in some way isolated inside the amp, then combined from the plug onward if normal SE TRS wiring is used. There will be a tiny, I suspect unmeasurable effect in doing this, even if it is measurable I certainly wont be able to hear it, I can't even hear the difference between full S-Balanced wiring and TRS S-Balanced wiring.

WARNING!!!!
On my xDSD when using a USB connection from my phone I set UAPP's output to max and control the volume on the xDSD, DO NOT do this with Gryphon, adjusting the volume to full in UAPP changes the system volume, ie Gryphon's volume to 100%. I wasn't watching the display on Gryphon or the volume wheel colour and was treated to a volume that sounded like it was turned up to 11! Luckily I wasn't using IEM's at the time.

Be careful folks this thing is POWERFUL at full volume!

 

[rlw6534]

I suspect the improvements between a normal SE output and an Ifi S-Balanced input that @iFi audio are referring to are internal to the amp, the grounds are in some way isolated inside the amp, then combined from the plug onward if normal SE TRS wiring is used. There will be a tiny, I suspect unmeasurable effect in doing this, even if it is measurable I certainly wont be able to hear it, I can't even hear the difference between full S-Balanced wiring and TRS S-Balanced wiring.

That makes sense. I guess this was more of an intellectual exercise for me as I wanted to understand what S-balanced really meant for an SE TRS connection and why it is better. Seems that it is mostly marketing hype as there doesn't seem to anything about this that is actually "balanced" in the common audiophile meaning of the word. It appears that it is single-ended operation with either TRS or TRRS connections. Maybe I should have paid more attention in my Electrical Engineering classes all those years ago...

 

[iFi audio]

No. You have the benefit of the improved cross talk compared to normal SE, but not the benefit of additional power as you would have with a real balanced hp output.

Exactly. xDSD Gryphon's S-Balanced 3.5mm and 4.4mm balanced outputs provide respectively >320mW and >1000mW into 32Ω loads so aren't alike, but with the former output one can use TRS and TRRS plugs conveniently.

 

[fizzytao]

Does that show where its made? And what headphones you rocking with it?

These are what printed on the back/bottom of the unit:

"Technolgy licensed from AMR-Audio, UK
Assembled in China"

I was pairing up it with a single titanium dynamic driver earlplug and a 6 BA IEM, both in 4.4mm balanced mode.

 

[fizzytao]

How does it compare to your Fiio m11 Plus and Cayin dap? I've heard both so your opinion will give me a nice baseline on what to expect and will be much appreciated

I have got the Gryphon for only two days and so this is really a very first impression. Last night, I did switch between Gryphon and M11 Plus Ltd for a couple of songs, which were mainly with female vocal. With the FiiO FA9 (6 BA IEM) and PW Audio no.10 cable in 4.4mm balanced, I can say that the two are on the same league quality-wise, while M11 Plus was a little brighter and female voice from Gryphon was a bit 'sweeter'. The M11 Plus offered a little wider soundstage whereas Gryphon was more musical. Yet, the so-called differences were very minute and I like them both indeed!

I was using xDuoo X10T II as the digital transport (well this is what it can do with no AMP no PO and no LO, but does its job awesomely) to connect to the Gryphon and based on what I had the optical connection offered a little more depth on the soundstage. So I think I will stay with the TOSLINK.

Oh yes, I do not have time to compare with the Cayin N3Pro yet. May post my impression later.

 

[Johnfg465vd]

I have got the Gryphon for only two days and so this is really a very first impression. Last night, I did switch between Gryphon and M11 Plus Ltd for a couple of songs, which were mainly with female vocal. With the FiiO FA9 (6 BA IEM) and PW Audio no.10 cable in 4.4mm balanced, I can say that the two are on the same league quality-wise, while M11 Plus was a little brighter and female voice from Gryphon was bit 'sweeter'. The M11 Plus offered a little wider soundstage whereas Gryphon was more musical. Yet, the so-called differences were very minute and I like the both indeed!

I was using xDuoo X10T II as the digital transport (well this is what it can do with no AMP no PO and no LO, but does its job awesomely) to connect to the Gryphon and based on what I had the optical connection offered the best sound, with a little more depth on the soundstage. So I think I will stay with the TOSLINK.

Oh yes, I do not have time to compare with the Cayin N3Pro yet. May post my impression later.

For a long time, I've been on the fence about getting the X10T II. Do you think it provides enough improvement in sound when compared to stacking a smartphone with a DAC?

Is there any hiss with the Gryphon?

 

[fizzytao]

For a long time, I've been on the fence about getting the X10T II. Do you think it provides enough improvement in sound when compared to stacking a smartphone with a DAC?

Is there any hiss with the Gryphon?

When I first got the X10T II, I did do the comparisons with the DAP’s and smartphones that I had at that time and the improvement could be told on site. Very clean and absolutely no coloration (yes, even we are talking about digital).

Also love that the battery lasts like forever.

For Gryphon, I do not hear hiss but then none of my IEM’s are sensitive after all. I would leave it to other owners to comment.