[BS5711]

Hi to all. I recently got Gryphon. I am a bit surprised by the fact that the balanced output (front) is ONLY marginally louder than the single ended one. I did measure the SPL via an SPL meter - not very scientific but fairly indicative I guess. In order to achieve around 80db SPL in single ended I have the volume level to around 85, while in balanced output around 80-82. Is this to be expected?

Based on just assessing the volume by ear it has been my experience that the 4.4mm is about 10 less on the volume reading than the 3.5mm.

Given the uncertainty of measuring and/or assessing the volume by ear, the different behavior of different IEM or headphones I would say that you are in the same ballpark.

Unlikely there is a problem.

Volume reading seem to be an odd thing with the Gryphon. Out of the main 100 range the lowest 30 seems essentially unusable and the last 15 or so ramps up quite quickly. This creates a sense that we are always running the Gryphon pretty hard when that is probably not technically true.

If the volume range was more usable at the lower end and ramped up more gently across the whole range you would see quite different volume numbers in different circumstances and it would probably make more sense.

First world problems.

 

[BS5711]

Thx! Very helpful
So I understand Gryphon and Go Bar are using digital and no analogue volume, therefore no channel imbalance?
IEMs and low sensivity headphones can be used at lower volume wheel position without IEMATCH and without channel imbalance?
Hissing can occur with higher hissing floor on Go Bar relative to Gryphon?
SQ on Gryphon slightly higher than Go Bar?

Correct, no channel imbalance at all.

Correct, with moderate to low sensitive IEM the noise floor won't be audible.

Noise floor on Go Bar and Gryphon is about the same.

I couldn't find specs on the VE but if you describe them as insensitive you will not hear hiss. The Denon are only 105db/mw and 24 ohms, they will be silent on both.

The sound quality on both is great. I don't hear big differences. If anything the Go Bar is perhaps a little more crisp, clear, sharp while the Gryphon is a touch more organic and "musical" whatever that means.

I love my Diablo and don't have channel imbalance issues but understand that some do. You will love the Gryphon if suffering volume control and channel imbalance issues with Diablo. I'd get the Gryphon simply for the added versatility and bluetooth.

 

[FooFighter]

Correct, no channel imbalance at all.

Correct, with moderate to low sensitive IEM the noise floor won't be audible.

Noise floor on Go Bar and Gryphon is about the same.

I couldn't find specs on the VE but if you describe them as insensitive you will not hear hiss. The Denon are only 105db/mw and 24 ohms, they will be silent on both.

The sound quality on both is great. I don't hear big differences. If anything the Go Bar is perhaps a little more crisp, clear, sharp while the Gryphon is a touch more organic and "musical" whatever that means.

I love my Diablo and don't have channel imbalance issues but understand that some do. You will love the Gryphon if suffering volume control and channel imbalance issues with Diablo. I'd get the Gryphon simply for the added versatility and bluetooth.

Very helpful again, thx!
Now I need to figure out if to get
a) the Go Bar Gold (potentially warmer and smoother than standard GO Bar)
b) or Gryphon
c) or Mojo 2

Diablo was one the most engaging dynamic mobile sources I have experienced.
Fantastic with my Planars.
Unfortunately too much power for the closed back and IEM bedside rig without degrading IEMATCH

 

[Lightspeed12]

Hi cross post from IDSD SIGNATURE thread and turned out that Signature isn't suitable for IEMs without IEMATCH.
Same story for Gryphon and Go Bar?

Hi chaps
I am still looking for some bedside rig to be paired with my Denon AH-D9200 and VE EXT.
Diablo was sounding super but actually hardly usable without digital headroom in Roon or IEMATCH which I don't want to use.
The Ifi headphone calculator is actually showing any! IFI device to be unsuitable without IEMATCH.
What are your guys ecperiences using non sensitive IEMs like my VE EXT respectively sensitive DD Overear with 23 Ohms using IDSD SIGNATURE economy mode without IEMATCH or some Gryphon for example.
Is it usable without channel imbalance?
Thx!

May I ask why you are reluctant to use iematch on the signature ?
I can use iematch or have it switched off with my iems without a problem.
The only difference i find is the volume switch position is around 10/11 0clock with no iematch & 12/1 0clock with iematch switched on. Channel imbalance isn't a problem.
Sound quality doesn’t change as long as volume is at same level. I use the ifi audio micro idsd signature daily with my astell&kern sp1000m & love it with iems. Many reviewers have recommended the signature over the Gryphon for home & travel use, not as portable as Gryphon also no bluetooth.

 

[BS5711]

Very helpful again, thx!
Now I need to figure out if to get the Go Bar Gold (potentially warmer and smoother than standard GO Bar or Gryphon) or Mojo 2
Diablo was one the most engaging dynamic mobile sources I have experienced.
Fantastic with my Planars.
Unfortunately too much power for the closed back and IEM bedside rig without degrading IEMATCH

Good luck.

I haven't heard Go Bar GOLD but as you state people say that it is a touch better than the normal Go Bar. I bough the Go Bar for a specific use and the added cost of the GOLD wasn't justified.

I have an original Mojo that I like a lot but for my use I much prefer the far greater versatility of the Gryphon so have no interest in a Mojo 2. Based on my experience with the Mojo and the same IEM I believe the Mojo 2 would have no noise floor issue for you and it's volume control is certainly not going to have any imbalance either.

 

[FooFighter]

May I ask why you are reluctant to use iematch on the signature ?
I can use iematch or have it switched off with my iems without a problem.
The only difference i find is the volume switch position is around 10/11 0clock with no iematch & 12/1 0clock with iematch switched on. Channel imbalance isn't a problem.
Sound quality doesn’t change as long as volume is at same level. I use the ifi audio micro idsd signature daily with my astell&kern sp1000m & love it with iems. Many reviewers have recommended the signature over the Gryphon for home & travel use, not as portable as Gryphon also no bluetooth.

Yep, I read that the idsd is top tier in terms of SQ on par with Diablo.
I have had the OG IDSD many years ago and loved its versatility.
However I have moved on with many different DAPs and IEMs, headphones in the last 2 years, most of them yet sold.
Some 2.5mm IEMATCH is still with me and I tried it with the Diablo some weeks ago.
Again I realized as I did before that it's degrading dynamics, changing the frequency response.
Holografy and airiness, background notes are muted up to not being audible.
Therefore I am not using IEMATCH where I can.
Couldn't compare to built-in IEMATCH though side by side as I didn't own Ifi gear with that feature lately.

Edit:
One thing in this context is really annoying me and this is the Ifi headphone calculator.
If you are now saying no issue also without IEMATCH it could well be true.
The headphone calculator though is leading normal customers avoid ifi devices because they are displayed as being too loud...

 

[BS5711]

Yep, I read that the idsd is top tier in terms of SQ on par with Diablo.
I have had the OG IDSD many years ago and loved its versatility.
However I have moved on with many different DAPs and IEMs, headphones in the last 2 years, most of them yet sold.
Some 2.5mm IEMATCH is still with me and I tried it with the Diablo some weeks ago.
Again I realized as I did before that it's degrading dynamics, changing the frequency response.
Holografy and airiness, background notes are muted up to not being audible.
Therefore I am not using IEMATCH where I can.
Couldn't compare to built-in IEMATCH though side by side as I didn't own Ifi gear with that feature lately

I agree and the built in IEMatch do the same thing as the accessory ones, I have the 3.5m and the 4.4mm accessory ones.

Some people don't seem to have issue with IEMatch and I wondered if it was just a volume comparison thing but I believe what I am hearing is real and I am not normally sensitive to small changes in sound.

If nothing else it is just one less thing to concern ones self with if it can be avoided so like you I work around using it even with devices that have it built in.

 

[Lightspeed12]

Yep, I read that the idsd is top tier in terms of SQ on par with Diablo.
I have had the OG IDSD many years ago and loved its versatility.
However I have moved on with many different DAPs and IEMs, headphones in the last 2 years, most of them yet sold.
Some 2.5mm IEMATCH is still with me and I tried it with the Diablo some weeks ago.
Again I realized as I did before that it's degrading dynamics, changing the frequency response.
Holografy and airiness, background notes are muted up to not being audible.
Therefore I am not using IEMATCH where I can.
Couldn't compare to built-in IEMATCH though side by side as I didn't own Ifi gear with that feature lately

Well I don't notice any difference in clarity or sound presentation in any of my iems between iematch & it turned off.
Sony m9, Sennheiser ie 300/600, oriolus isabellae, dunu zen pro, moondrop blessing 2 & Shure846 all sound great. I have tested the iematch & no iematch many times.
The only difference i find is with xbass or 3d switch.

 

[FooFighter]

Well I don't notice any difference in clarity or sound presentation in any of my iems between iematch & it turned off.
Sony m9, Sennheiser ie 300/600, oriolus isabellae, dunu zen pro, moondrop blessing 2 & Shure846 all sound great. I have tested the iematch & no iematch many times.
The only difference i find is with xbass or 3d switch.

Once I had the OG IDSD I also never had issues with that function - I believe that feature was yet in that model too.
I can only state what I heard with the latest power houses I have demoed with the external IEMATCH as well as my experiences in the past years with DX220 Max, DX300 etc with sensitive Campfire IEMs etc there was an audible difference in the frequency response

 

[Johnfg465vd]

Please advise if EF400 is good for planer headphones, as I'll use headphones only at home so I can use it with desktop DAC. Im getting Arya V3 stealth as well. Im selling all previous gear (all are beginners level) and getting the highest possible gears I can afford now.

It's very good with planar Headphones. Among the planar Headphones in my collection, I have used it extensively with my Edition XS, Ananda and for a limited time with Arya SE. Just keep in mind that the EF400 just like any R2R DAC needs more time to burn-in than other DACs and also use the Balanced Outs for optimal performence. It's easily better than Gryphon and a step above micro iDSD Sig and Mojo 2.

Hi cross post from IDSD SIGNATURE thread and turned out that Signature isn't suitable for IEMs without IEMATCH.
Same story for Gryphon and Go Bar?

Again I realized as I did before that it's degrading dynamics, changing the frequency response.
Holografy and airiness, background notes are muted up to not being audible.
Therefore I am not using IEMATCH where I can.

I had the same issue with IEMatch on Gryphon & micro iDSD Signature. I think I tested 6-7 IEMs and ended up not liking that feature with atleast 5 IEMs.

If you are going to use Balanced Out on Gryphon then there will be some noise with sensitive IEMs. You can use it's Single-Ended Output but unlike the Signature, Gryphon is designed to sound best from Balanced Outputs so you will loose some sound quality, mainly image separation and soundstage width.

I have not heard the Go Bar but looking at how powerful it is for a dongle DAC and iFi's history with Amp noise, I think that will also have noise with sensitive IEMs.

If you are looking for a similarly enjoyable sound then I will recommend you go for RS2, RU6 or Gold Bar instead.

 

[BS5711]

Once I had the OG IDSD I also never had issues with that function - I believe that feature was yet in that model too.
I can only state what I heard with the latest power houses I have demoed with the external IEMATCH as well as my experiences in the past years with DX220 Max, DX300 etc with sensitive Campfire IEMs etc there was an audible difference in the frequency response

Can you define the specs of the IEM that you are planning to use ?

If they are truly insensitive then hiss from the 4.4mm won't be an issue anyway and that may help narrow your choices.

Only my single most sensitive IEM has audible noise from the 4.4mm.

I did a comparison between the 3.5mm and 4.4mm out of the Gryphon and I could MAYBE hear a tiny reduction in sound stage width and image separation out of the 3.5mm. Frankly it was well within the limits of expectation bias and less than a tip change would make.

 

[FooFighter]

Can you define the specs of the IEM that you are planning to use ?

If they are truly insensitive then hiss from the 4.4mm won't be an issue anyway and that may help narrow your choices.

Only my single most sensitive IEM has audible noise from the 4.4mm.

I did a comparison between the 3.5mm and 4.4mm out of the Gryphon and I could MAYBE hear a tiny reduction in sound stage width and image separation out of the 3.5mm. Frankly it was well within the limits of expectation bias and less than a tip change would make.

Vision Ears EXT

• Driver count: One 9.2mm dynamic driver, one 6.2mm dynamic driver and four electrostatic drivers.
• Impedance: 10Ω @ 1kHz.
• Sensitivity: 108.5dB @ 1kHz @ 1mW.

 

[BS5711]

Vision Ears EXT

• Driver count: One 9.2mm dynamic driver, one 6.2mm dynamic driver and four electrostatic drivers.
• Impedance: 10Ω @ 1kHz.
• Sensitivity: 108.5dB @ 1kHz @ 1mW.

I would not class that as insensitive at all and based on my Shanling ME700 at 18 ohm and 106db/mw that definitely pick up hiss from the 4.4mm on both the Gryphon and Go Bar I imagine your IEM would also.

In fact, based on my experience with my IEM on a Chord Mojo I wouldn’t be surprised if you heard some very minor hiss on a Mojo 2 also.

 

[galaxysound25]

I would not class that as insensitive at all and based on my Shanling ME700 at 18 ohm and 106db/mw that definitely pick up hiss from the 4.4mm on both the Gryphon and Go Bar I imagine your IEM would also.

In fact, based on my experience with my IEM on a Chord Mojo I wouldn’t be surprised if you heard some very minor hiss on a Mojo 2 also.

Hello,
So Mest Indigo would hear a lot of hiss with Gryphon as per their specification below?
>Impedance: 13.2Ω.
>Sensitivity: 118dB.
For me I'm ok to use the iematch function with 4.4,but if the hiss is too much should I consider some other portable DAP (like RS6) instead of DAC(due to no available option of DAC with bluetooth).
I'm not able to decide on portable DAC/DAP really. My requirements is bluetooth and sound signature like Gryphon. I wanted to split money between a portable (gryphon) and Desktop DAC(EF400 or similar). I wanted to use Indigo with Gryphon on the move and Arya stealth with EF400 at home.

 

[galaxysound25]

It's very good with planar Headphones. Among the planar Headphones in my collection, I have used it extensively with my Edition XS, Ananda and for a limited time with Arya SE. Just keep in mind that the EF400 just like any R2R DAC needs more time to burn-in than other DACs and also use the Balanced Outs for optimal performence. It's easily better than Gryphon and a step above micro iDSD Sig and Mojo 2.

Thank you for the response. Are you also aware how Gryphone would sound with Mest Indigo, I'm mostly worried about the background hiss so unable to decide.I'm hesitant to spend that much on RS6 until it is a huge difference in sound quality, positively.