XCD-88 *exactly* the same as MMF CD-25?
Oct 15, 2005 at 4:49 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 17
C38368

C38368

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I've seen all over the place that they're based on the same design, but (aesthetics aside), are they mechanically/electronically identical?

I just found a relatively cheap (<$500) CD-25 in my general area, and am wondering if there's anything at all to justify a still near-$200 premium over the XCD-88.

Thanks!
 
Oct 16, 2005 at 1:34 AM Post #3 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by videocrew
the XCD-88 has cheaper opamps. so maybe 50 or 60 bucks to upgrade those, and then they're truly identical (internally)


Not too worried about what the opamps are in either: I've seen how to replace them, and even *I* could handle it
wink.gif
So they'd probably get replaced anyways.

Turns out the unit I found is properly a CD-25.2. I asked what exactly that meant and was told that it was essentually identical to the CD-25, but fixed a problem where static could build up and cause the internals to go a little barmy. Anyone able to confirm this, as an aside?
 
Oct 16, 2005 at 3:28 AM Post #5 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by C38368
Turns out the unit I found is properly a CD-25.2. I asked what exactly that meant and was told that it was essentually identical to the CD-25, but fixed a problem where static could build up and cause the internals to go a little barmy.


The ".2" version has an updated transport and DAC, as well as minor cosmetic upgrades like a new display and gold plated jacks. However, it also losses HDCD support. More info...
http://www.amusicdirect.com/products...p?sku=AMMFCD25

If you are able to find a ".2" around, you should grab it. It's currently on backorder at Music Direct and Audio Advisor. I'm still waiting to get mine after placing an order 2 weeks ago.
 
Oct 16, 2005 at 3:31 AM Post #6 of 17
Oct 16, 2005 at 4:35 AM Post #7 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by kontai69
The ".2" version has an updated transport and DAC, as well as minor cosmetic upgrades like a new display and gold plated jacks. However, it also losses HDCD support. More info...
http://www.amusicdirect.com/products...p?sku=AMMFCD25

If you are able to find a ".2" around, you should grab it. It's currently on backorder at Music Direct and Audio Advisor. I'm still waiting to get mine after placing an order 2 weeks ago.


Interesting. Why'd they take out HDCD support, or does that get to hang around as one of life's [Not So] Great Mysteries?
I really don't think I'd notice, as I've got all of about one album gussied up in HDCD trim, but still...

Now if you'll please excuse me while I stew over this for a while
biggrin.gif
 
Oct 16, 2005 at 4:50 AM Post #8 of 17
I may be incorrect on this one, but I was under the impression that the HDCD support had to do with the DAC. The XCD-88 uses the Burr Brown 1732 DAC, while the new Music Hall uses the 1738. The latest Rotel CD players use 1732 DACs and they also decode HDCD, so I assume the 1738 doesn't decode HDCD. Just a hunch
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Oct 16, 2005 at 5:52 AM Post #9 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by meat01
I may be incorrect on this one, but I was under the impression that the HDCD support had to do with the DAC. The XCD-88 uses the Burr Brown 1732 DAC, while the new Music Hall uses the 1738. The latest Rotel CD players use 1732 DACs and they also decode HDCD, so I assume the 1738 doesn't decode HDCD. Just a hunch
smily_headphones1.gif



exactly. it isn't something you can just build in, its a matter of which DAC you use.
 
Oct 16, 2005 at 12:58 PM Post #10 of 17
Oct 16, 2005 at 1:57 PM Post #11 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by videocrew
the XCD-88 has cheaper opamps. so maybe 50 or 60 bucks to upgrade those, and then they're truly identical (internally)


Onix OPA2134
Music Hall OPA2604

Both are very cheap chips, bought in the quantity that Onix or Shanling will i.e 1000s they are $1.10(2134) and $1.90(2604) each, hardly justifying the $200 price difference imho.

Even if they are bought from Digikey or similar in small quantities the price difference is less than a couple of bucks ($2.36 to $4.28)

Actually some Music Hall units apparently shipped with the 2134 anyway...
 
Oct 16, 2005 at 7:47 PM Post #12 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by hciman77
Onix OPA2134
Music Hall OPA2604

Both are very cheap chips, bought in the quantity that Onix or Shanling will i.e 1000s they are $1.10(2134) and $1.90(2604) each, hardly justifying the $200 price difference imho.

Even if they are bought from Digikey or similar in small quantities the price difference is less than a couple of bucks ($2.36 to $4.28)

Actually some Music Hall units apparently shipped with the 2134 anyway...



The common upgrade for the XCD-88 is to change the opamps to Burr Brown OP627's, which are sort of expensive actually. (The AP or BP versions are what are used) Those cost about $18 a piece. And you need 4 of them and two adapters. So, the upgrade does cost maybe $70+
 
Oct 16, 2005 at 8:21 PM Post #13 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by deadlierchair
The common upgrade for the XCD-88 is to change the opamps to Burr Brown OP627's, which are sort of expensive actually. (The AP or BP versions are what are used) Those cost about $18 a piece. And you need 4 of them and two adapters. So, the upgrade does cost maybe $70+


Any appreciable difference?

(+1 for learning!)
 
Oct 16, 2005 at 9:34 PM Post #14 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by C38368
Any appreciable difference?

(+1 for learning!)


The Burr Brown data sheet shows that they are similar but have some different specifications. (They are in the same package and are installed the same way, however) Different input bias current, input offset current, input noise, and some different open-loop gain numbers. However, I am not good enough with electronics to tell you if those things matter. Definitely something good to know before you buy though, since going with the AP versus the BP would save you $30.
 
Oct 16, 2005 at 9:51 PM Post #15 of 17
Yeah, that's beyond me, too. Oh well, I suppose I'll just have to try one and see!

I wish Underwood Hifi would hurry up and post something useful on their "Onix Elite" page now... I think that's just about all that I'm hung up on anymore.
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