[sno1man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman I'm not going to comment on my findings as such, but what I will say is that while sound comparisons will always be subjective, it can be a bit or highly subjective. As I pointed out on another thread, if you actually do a more-or-less blind test between two identical sources (in my specific case two 3G iPods) and leave the volume even subtly varied by a bit, I usually preferred the louder one. As I've found out, level matching is the first step in drastically reducing the subjectivity of the opinion.

I think you are spot on about that but what do you think another more subjective tests validity?

Specifically I have found that I often like a certain DAPs sound at first, only to later be not as enamored. What I have discovered but which is also highly impractical is that you need a long term test. I.E. minimizing the variables somewhat by using the same music files and same phones, but switching back and forth repeatedly over a week or more.

In my case I initially liked the sound of the Rio Carbon better than the zen micro but after doing said test for two weeks, i ended up back with the zen micro.

My GF had a similar experience with the sony hd3, she initially thought she liked the sound better (better bass, more presence) than her ipod but after a couple of weeks, she found the sony sound tiring and went back to her ipod.

Kind of like the pepsi challenge: most preferred it in a single sip comparison, but long term most still liked coke better

 

[bangraman]

Sure, the tests generally in my case include a direct comparison and also longer term usage. A direct comparison however usually yields best results as far as relative capabilitity goes when carried out with a variety of material. I use long term tests usually to concentrate on the functional aspect of the player as differences of sonic opinions in long-term tests aren't as readily quantifiable. You're right though... long-term listening usually yields more usable results in an uncontrolled situation because you get a feel of 'it' as a whole.


Spur of the moment comparisons (the oft-mentioned "I and a mate compared x...", as well as, I realise now, every single Head-Fi meet) are the most affected by emotion and feelings / inconsistencies at the time. I've frequently had the situation of owning something I felt was good or excellent at a meeting or a shop audition, to find out something negative or indifferent later (Among others, the Sony D-25S / D-555 / D-303 being recently rather contentious examples of that

) These aspects, although maybe not how you feel about them will however also appear to a more quantifiable level in a subjectivity-lessened direct comparison, not just in a long-term comparison.


The differences can be pointed out more readily in the direct test. The effects, long-term, are variable. For example, take the 3G iPod. Many would have gravitated to the Etymotic-like opinion that the tone, with a bass reduction and the consequent emphasis on the treble made things sound cleaner. Whereas others would prefer a rich bass-boosted sound. Those things you can't separate as "better". However, you can separate relative aspects of audio capability in terms of resolving capability, soundstaging, speed, etc from the tone. To do that, it pays to have as litle variability in the testing conditions as possible. I don't claim to be an audio engineer but it's pretty much common sense to me that in a test you should play on as level a field as possible. There's a lot you can do to control your tests and I try to employ many of them, but the precisely-as-possible, machine-assisted matching of level is I think a basic step towards a comparison given my experiences so far.


Why I'm concentrating on the X5 vs 5G iPod discussion is that there seems to have grown out a myth, perhaps from some Karma owners gravitating to the X5 and finding out that this offered practically as good a sound, that the X5 is notably better than the best of the rest and an assumption is being made that the iPod sounds terrible in comparison. However, the difference between the 5G and the X5 in particular among sources currently available are so inconsequential in the above relatively controlled test (and one which reveals sometimes significant differences between players) that I thought it worth mentioning.

 

[mitchjordan]

Nice review guys. Still i think in itself, made the conclusion the X5 is still the better device, through its gapless playback, which to many (including me) is still a very important factor, also its physical strength.

But since hearing a 5g ipod, even through the stock apple buds, ive felt it should be up there with the iriver players, i just wouldnt dare make a comment like that, due to the fact im mostly uninformed, and do not have any sort of high end headphones to test.

 

[zip22]

the x5 is gapless?

edit:
unless things have changed, i think the answer is no.
http://iaudiophile.net/forums/showth...hlight=gapless

 

[insomniac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by germanjulian Yeah... now nobody can still say the iPod 5g sounds bad... cause it doesnt

I love my iPod 5g and it was a nice test and review, but I don't think it provides anything close to a definitive objective conclusion.

 

[immtbiker]

I merged the 2 threads, because 1 helps out the other.

If anyone thinks they shouldn't be merged let me know.

 

[mitchjordan]

With rockbox i beleive it is.

Id like to see that "SPA" site Bill Machrone was running do a review on the 5th gen, sadly he seems to have stopped updating it.

 

[zip22]

rockbox doesnt work with the x5 yet

 

[cconroy]

i am a proud new owner of an x5l and I can tell you that it is NOT gapless. there are very short pauses in between songs (even on vorbis which was designed to be gapless)...who knows if they'll fix it in a firmware update.

 

[germanjulian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cconroy i am a proud new owner of an x5l and I can tell you that it is NOT gapless. there are very short pauses in between songs (even on vorbis which was designed to be gapless)...who knows if they'll fix it in a firmware update.

same with the g5, maybe half a second at most (album art off)

dont understand why it is so hard to implement?

 

[papakoks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by germanjulian same with the g5, maybe half a second at most (album art off) dont understand why it is so hard to implement?

the only thing is you can rip songs with the "Join Tracks" feature in itunes...really wish apple could put in the gapless playback feature...

 

[bangraman]

n00b question: how do you turn off album art?