[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker I'm going to check it now, but the line out feature should give you a flat response, and zero out all of the EQ settings and other effects. If you are bypassing the amplification circuit, you should be bypassing the DSP effects too, for true line out.

No you won't be. Like most other players it is subject to DSP usage, and I'm not entirely sure about 'bypassing the amp circuit' either.


The headphone socket set to full volume, all fx / eq off does give you a flat response with an amp load. The 'real' Line Out does not.

 

[enoch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman No you won't be. Like most other players it is subject to DSP usage, and I'm not entirely sure about 'bypassing the amp circuit' either. The headphone socket set to full volume, all fx / eq off does give you a flat response with an amp load. The 'real' Line Out does not.

Well that's counter-intuitive! I

sn't it?

 

[Blooze]

Ok, after reading up on some of the units here and this thread in particular I have narrowed my search to the 20 GB X5L or a 20GB Ipod. I am leaning toward the X5L after many recommendations for it on my First DAP thread, but have never heard it. I have a friend that has the Ipod and I think it sounds just fine for my limited hearing. Any other points between the two I should consider?

 

[enoch]

I've sold audio gear for about eight years. I've herad people time and time again use the phrase "my limited hearing." I have come to learn that this is code for "I intend to settle for second best," It is a cop-out way of thinking that really is self-defeating. If one has limited hearing, then one needs to squeeze out all the frequency range in a product that they can. Assuming the price is the same, get the one with better sound quality. It's a no-brainer. X5L.

 

[Blooze]

Quote:

Originally Posted by enoch I've sold audio gear for about eight years. I've herad people time and time again use the phrase "my limited hearing." I have come to learn that this is code for "I intend to settle for second best," It is a cop-out way of thinking that really is self-defeating. If one has limited hearing, then one needs to squeeze out all the frequency range in a product that they can. Assuming the price is the same, get the one with better sound quality. It's a no-brainer. X5L.

Thanks for the advice. I do have limited hearing. 6 years of playing in a rock band 10 feet from Marshall and Peavey half-stacks on 5 with no hearing protection and growing up around a lot of shooting. Hey, young and stupid and now people seem to mumble a lot and the ringing at night is kind of annoying. Seems to be just certain types of voices though as I've had it checked and I've got all my upper register hearing surprisingly enough, it's just a certain range there where if someone is talking to my back or something or if there is a lot of things going on in a room I have to really be facing someone closely to hear them clearly. It's not really that bad, but if two things sound very similar I have a very hard time picking out subtle differences. I am one of those people that want the one that sounds best to me and will not settle for second best in the price range I can employ. The 20GB X5L is deinitely in that range as I'm looking at $300 max.

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blooze The 20GB X5L is deinitely in that range as I'm looking at $300 max.

30GB X5l is available for $300.

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blooze Ok, after reading up on some of the units here and this thread in particular I have narrowed my search to the 20 GB X5L or a 20GB Ipod. I am leaning toward the X5L after many recommendations for it on my First DAP thread, but have never heard it. I have a friend that has the Ipod and I think it sounds just fine for my limited hearing. Any other points between the two I should consider?

Anyone who claims that the X5 has better sound quality is ill-informed.


The only thing starkly different about the two players (X5, current 5G iPod) sound-wise out of the headphone out is the respective EQ's. The two are oddly reminiscent of ech other in terms of their overall sonic character and sound quality. I haven't sold audio gear, but I have owned every major DAP in the last 2-3 years and compared them extensively. The X5 is the rougher-edged of the two in terms of execution but has superior features (most of which you may never use). The iPod is feature-deficient, but everything (bar the EQ) is far better thought out. The X5L is also considerably larger, yet has more than double the realistic battery life of the comparable iPod (which has a large catalogue of add-on battery packs to choose from).


The choice is simply down to whether you want the additional features or not, how they work, or whether you prefer the drag & drop system of organisation as opposed to the more structured method of managing music on the iPod, as well as whether you prefer carrying something considerably bigger that offers a very long battery reserve as opposed to a thin player for everyday use and an add-on pack for longer forays. It is not down to the respective sound quality of each player. If anything, the 5G iPod very subtly pips the X5 to the post on that one... but such differences will only be an issue if you use phones like mine.

 

[enoch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman Anyone who claims that the X5 has better sound quality is ill-informed. The only thing starkly different about the two players (X5, current 5G iPod) sound-wise out of the headphone out is the respective EQ's. The two are oddly reminiscent of ech other in terms of their overall sonic character and sound quality. I haven't sold audio gear, but I have owned every major DAP in the last 2-3 years and compared them extensively. The X5 is the rougher-edged of the two in terms of execution but has superior features (most of which you may never use). The iPod is feature-deficient, but everything (bar the EQ) is far better thought out. The X5L is also considerably larger, yet has more than double the realistic battery life of the comparable iPod (which has a large catalogue of add-on battery packs to choose from). The choice is simply down to whether you want the additional features or not, how they work, or whether you prefer the drag & drop system of organisation as opposed to the more structured method of managing music on the iPod, as well as whether you prefer carrying something considerably bigger that offers a very long battery reserve as opposed to a thin player for everyday use and an add-on pack for longer forays. It is not down to the respective sound quality of each player. If anything, the 5G iPod very subtly pips the X5 to the post on that one... but such differences will only be an issue if you use phones like mine.

I disagree as do a whole lot of others:

http://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5570

 

[bangraman]

That's fine. But how many of them would you think have owned both and actually compared the two? You can link to any number of threads with completely arbitary opinions on non-Apple forums saying that the iPod is inferior, and you can link to any number of threads with completely arbitary opinions on Apple forums saying that the iPod is great. I would put it to you that the percentage of people there who have run any sort of decent comparison worthy of discussion is absolutely minute.


Since I'm personally interested in having as good a player as I can reasonably acquire, I run my own comparisons using methodology which I think is pretty solid.


First of all, I match headphone volume levels between sources to within 0.2db or less if possible (it's not always possible due to steps in the volume controls for some players) for both headphone out and line out listening (if I'm testing amped). I test with a variety of music styles, the most representative of which are classical, jazz, electronic, rock and pop with both MP3 and whatever lossless/uncompressed format the player supports. I use both a near-seamless audio switch method which introduces no breaks in the sound when switching, and also an alternate plug/unplug test (the normal way if you will). Usually two or three phones, ranging from ~$50 articles to the Qualia 010 or the Omega II/Orpheus is involved in testing.


I'm not shouting I'm right, but by the same token it is quite possible that I put a little more into what forms my opinions than some.


Because in some of my offline writing and talks I have to adopt a specific spin (anti-iPod in the vast majority of cases), it does mean that I actually have to be pretty aware of the specific differences between each player so that what I write is not exactly a lie but nevertheless a very convincing bash of the competing product(s). The knowledge required to do this is certainly not to the detail above, but I like to carry it that far because of the aforesaid personal interest, and also because I'm a geek. What you get here are my non-spun thoughts.

 

[apnk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by enoch I disagree as do a whole lot of others: http://www.iaudiophile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=5570

Of course they disagree, if they didn't why have the need for a fan site.

 

[apnk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman How many of them would you think have owned both and actually compared the two?

Word.

 

[wolfen68]

I've heard a 4G and an X5L side-by-side. I thought they sounded close, but preferred the X5L.

This may mean nothing, as a longer listen or a different day may have yielded a different result

.....the cruel whims of over-analyzing what you hear.

I AM certain that the X5 is definitely in the running.

 

[max-9]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman How many of them would you think have owned both and actually compared the two?

Me..I have both X5 and 5G , I prefer the sound of the X5 and can tell the difference blidfolded. The ipod distorts using any eq setting. I also have the nano and the X5 sounds better than that also. Guess its personal preferences?

 

[bangraman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfen68 I've heard a 4G and an X5L side-by-side. I thought they sounded close, but preferred the X5L.

I couldn't really prefer the Photos either. I know my opinions about that was called into question by some iPod owners.


Quote:

the cruel whims of over-analyzing what you hear

So true. Specific listening tests are really easy to overdo even when they're controlled to a degree. When you ping pong back between two sources repeatedly it just gets blurred into one and in some cases the sonic differences are that subtle that you lose track of what was actually different, and go off on a wild goose chase for soemthing else you thought you heard after the 10th switch

So I've stuck to switching once in a track, putting down some rough listening notes of what I immediately felt, then based on that thinking about something to specifically listen out for and concentrating on that, then repeating that cycle just once. If I feel unsure about anything, I'll repeat this much later. Then leave a long rest (frequently a day) and repeat the whole thing with different music. If I don't feel like it for any reason, I don't do it. It seems to work out reasonably well.

 

[enoch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bangraman That's fine. But how many of them would you think have owned both and actually compared the two? .

Actually, I found a large percentage of the residents of that forum ARE indeed iPod converts. That being said, you seem to have impressive qualifications.