[Dalamar]

Aside from measurements, there is no non-human way of testing, and the alternative: subjective tests, is just useless.
Measurements will result in the output sounding like the input, and if it sounds bad, well, maybe you should blame the digital recording. Or the INAUDIBLE JITTER!!1
 
I recommend blind tests because measurements are often too small to be audibly different, and if you can't tell (without the placebo) why spend more? If you think the worse item is better... or can't tell... why buy the better one?

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

Aside from measurements, there is no non-human way of testing, and the alternative: subjective tests, is just useless.
Measurements will result in the output sounding like the input, and if it sounds bad, well, maybe you should blame the digital recording. Or the INAUDIBLE JITTER!!1
 
I recommend blind tests because measurements are often too small to be audibly different, and if you can't tell (without the placebo) why spend more? If you think the worse item is better... or can't tell... why buy the better one?

Right, but, why is placebo so bad?  If ones thinks it's better, it IS ACTUALLY better, due to the way Placebo works.  I'm not saying that you should bank huge bucks on it, but seeing as DBTs are so flawed by the human element, why not just let the human element take over?

 

[beeman458]

Well, whatever, I'll probably just block you soon, I'm tired of talking to bricks.
 
Why wait, please do.

 

[germanium]

It seems that much of what is being discussed here does not belong in this forum. It belongs in the sound science forum. The OP was asking where to go after his soundcard failed. Not about the ins & outs of different cables, caps & amp mods & whether there is any real difference.
 
My recommendation for a really transperant sound at resonable cost is th Asus D2 or D2X. These cards are D.C. coupled & are very transperant providing an excellent view of what is actually in the recording. The Essense is slightly better but does have greater potenial if modded. The mods do not need to be outragiously expensive to get the best out of that card though. The mods I did are actually free & sound slightly but significantly better. The sound is totally transperant on this card. I have made recordings from other sources with this card & the output sounds just like the original source

 

[beeman458]

The OP was asking where to go after his soundcard failed. Not about the ins & outs of different cables, caps & amp mods & whether there is any real difference.
 
Agreed.  The problem is the anti-cable, Amp, DAC, whatever crowd who feels compelled to jump in and warn people that it doesn't make a difference and you're not hearing what you're hearing because they have these bogus tests that prove we're all delusional.
 
The point, one can't simply write a recommendation response to a question without being taken to task (Have you done a DBT to back your claims up.), every time one writes that having made a change to a particular piece of equipment and how doing so has improved their listening experience.  All this polementry in response to a question requesting a simple recommendation based upon personal experience.
 
No where else do I read this type of behavior.  This, whether it's a recommendation to buy an electric razor (....gives me the smoothest shave), buying cookies (Why they're simply the best.) or purchasing a set of expensive tires; they're the best wearing and running tires that I have owned and used in snow, rain or on dry roads.  This type of behavior, my experience, seems to be limited only to buying and using audio gear when reading or giving recommendations.  It's seems that one needs to get away from forums like this when looking for a recommendation and look only to places like TigerDirect.com or Amazon.com where this sort of behavior is non-existent.
 
The Essense is slightly better but does have greater potenial if modded.
 
FWIW, an aside, very few have the ability or desire to mod a card such as the Essence STX as most just want a card they can plug-n-play and use with minimal driver update issues.
 

 

[Dalamar]

Quote:

The sound is totally transperant on this card. I have made recordings from other sources with this card & the output sounds just like the original source.

Indeed. I did the same (see link in my sig), sounds the same to me.
 
Any upgrades, any dacs more expensive seem wasteful. It's best to worry about your headphones or speakers.

 

[germanium]

 
Quote:

 
 
FWIW, an aside, very few have the ability or desire to mod a card such as the Essence STX as most just want a card they can plug-n-play and use with minimal driver update issues.
 

True but to those that can it does not have to be expensive as I got my results for free & only require minimal knowledge & soldering experience & here the difference is real as far as sound improvement. Most people can get away with the stock card though quite well as it really requires excellent amps & speakers to hear the difference.

 

 

[beeman458]

True but to those that can it does not have to be expensive as I got my results for free & only require minimal knowledge & soldering experience...
 
Shaky old hands hire stable young hands.  And old men recognize that nothing is free as the soldering skills were earned, not given.
 
....& here the difference is real as far as sound improvement.
 
Cut it out with the need for underhanded digs as the changes I've made to the system are real and have made an improvement in sound quality.  You guys need to lay off your BS of using flawed DBT result evaluations as your smoking gun.  When you anti-cable guys include evaluation parameters which includes the analogue nature of humanity's sensory system, you might get my attention.  Until then, you're just beating a dead horse with an out of tune digital trumpet.
 
Most people can get away with the stock card though quite well as it really requires excellent amps & speakers to hear the difference.
 
Then what's a person to do as I bought the card to use with headphones and I'm not wanting to have any desktop boxes out and about on the desk?  If I did, I'd simply buy a combination DAC/Amp (no interconnects) and cable that sucker to the computer with either a USB or Toslink and be done with it.  To me, at this point, the real question to be answered is, where does one go to get their card modified and what would it cost?  If I try to mod my card, with my limited soldering skills and the lack of a decent work bench area coupled with a lack of proper tools, I guarantee my board will be dead come morning.
 

 

[ROBSCIX]

 
Quote:

True but to those that can it does not have to be expensive as I got my results for free & only require minimal knowledge & soldering experience...
 
Shaky old hands hire stable young hands.  And old men recognize that nothing is free as the soldering skills were earned, not given.
 
....& here the difference is real as far as sound improvement.
 
Cut it out with the need for underhanded digs as the changes I've made to the system are real and have made an improvement in sound quality.  You guys need to lay off your BS of using flawed DBT result evaluations as your smoking gun.  When you anti-cable guys include evaluation parameters which includes the analogue nature of humanity's sensory system, you might get my attention.  Until then, you're just beating a dead horse with an out of tune digital trumpet.
 
Most people can get away with the stock card though quite well as it really requires excellent amps & speakers to hear the difference.
 
Then what's a person to do as I bought the card to use with headphones and I'm not wanting to have any desktop boxes out and about on the desk?  If I did, I'd simply buy a combination DAC/Amp (no interconnects) and cable that sucker to the computer with either a USB or Toslink and be done with it.  To me, at this point, the real question to be answered is, where does one go to get their card modified and what would it cost?  If I try to mod my card, with my limited soldering skills and the lack of a decent work bench area coupled with a lack of proper tools, I guarantee my board will be dead come morning.
 

There are a few good modders around that might be open to lending some assistance if you ask.

 

[beeman458]

There are a few good modders around that might be open to lending some assistance if you ask.
 
Thanks!  Thanks for the suggestion.  I figure that it's only fair I pay whom ever provides a service such as board modification.
 
It seems that if one is going go to all the trouble of buying and modding a STX, wouldn't it be easier and more cost efficient to buy a DAC/Amp like an Audio-gd "Sparrow" or "Fun" and ask them to put the works into whichever unit you end up buying?
 
???

 

[leeperry]

if one is going go to all the trouble of buying and modding a STX, wouldn't it be easier and more cost efficient to buy a DAC/Amp

 
Nope, because polishing a turd is where all the fun resides. Go tell the DIY PJ ppl: http://hackaday.com/2010/03/04/diy-projector-collection/ that for the same money they could get a much better performing commercial unit...they're not interested at all!

 

[beeman458]

Nope, because polishing a turd is where all the fun resides.
 
Well, somebody has to buy all those polished turds.
 
(Needs a whistling emoticon here)
 

 

[ROBSCIX]

 
Quote:

There are a few good modders around that might be open to lending some assistance if you ask.
 
Thanks!  Thanks for the suggestion.  I figure that it's only fair I pay whom ever provides a service such as board modification.
 
It seems that if one is going go to all the trouble of buying and modding a STX, wouldn't it be easier and more cost efficient to buy a DAC/Amp like an Audio-gd "Sparrow" or "Fun" and ask them to put the works into whichever unit you end up buying?
 
???

Just depends on what you want done.  The STX has some amazing measurements as it is.  Most modifications involve tweaking the sound a bit further.  If you want to buy an external unit and put your modding energy/cash there  find a unit that presents good sound when modified.  There are some external units that sound great off the rack but sound excellent with a little modding.
Hope this helps.

 

[beeman458]

Just depends on what you want done.
 
Not a clue.
 
"Aaaaaaah, I'd like it to sound like a million bucks but I only have a ten spot to spend."
 
j/k
 
My initial comments were in response to another's comment about modding the STX and how most who buy the board are quite happy with how it comes out of the box as the skills aren't there to even know that the board needs to be modified.
 
I bought and recommend the STX because it's the best thing happening as a stand alone, music related sound card.  Modding boards of this kind, my opinion, is a whole nother question.
 

 

[leeperry]

 

Well, somebody has to buy all those polished turds.
 
(Needs a whistling emoticon here)

now, you're being sarcastic