[snafup]

Hi,
 I've been using the forte for the past while and was happy with it.(except for the occasional driver issue and at first not being recognized by vista 64).The sound quality and positional audio was a great improvement over on board sound which had an annoying hiss at higher levels.
 Recently the card went to the great system in the sky and i am currently looking to replace it.
 I play games but i also like listening to my music collection when surfing.I enjoy clear clean music and have a Bose speaker 2.1 setup.
 My system is an 17 920 with tons of ram and sli video card set up, with windows vista 64bit as the os.
 I've read the reviews that recommend creative x-fi fatality,asus xonar dx,essence(well all of asus),auzentech and so on.
 
 I'm looking for informed help as this seem to be the place for people who actual have and use these cards.Having to turn onboard sound on and listen to the hiss really sucks the big one.
 
Thanks

 

[beeman458]

I decided to upgrade the system box so I could get some decent sound.  I'm not a gamer so I can't address questions surrounding that side of the issue.
 
After extensive online research, I chose and installed an ASUS Xonar Essence STX with a Sennheiser HD-650 attached.  To clear up any power supply issues, I upgraded the power supply with an Ultra X4 750W modular power supply unit.  Here's a link to some reviews for their 850w/1050w units.
 
The idea of the exercise was to upgrade the sound quality and not have any extra audio boxes on the desktop surface; no DACs or headphone amps.  I haven't a clue if you could get a quieter board but the board is dead quiet to my ears; no hissing or sibilance.  So far, I'm happy as a duck in water.  In my opinion, money well spent.
 
I tried a custom power supply cord but it killed the sound quality when compared to the original power cable associated with the original power supply.  To complete the exercise of improving the on-board computer sound system, I have on order a set of custom made cables for the headphones by Double Helix Cable.  They should be in, in a week or so, so time will tell if they'll help the sound quality of the headphones.  From here you either get into OpAmp rolling or get into more expensive separates and uber expensive headphones.
 
That's it in a nutshell.
 
Hope the above helps give you some ideas.

 

[Dalamar]

Don't worry about your power supply.
As long as it's a reliable Tier 2 or better brand/model like PC&P (OCZ), Corsair, Seasonic, etc, that aren't prone to high failure rates (and taking other gear out with them) you'll be fine.
 
See the links in my signature. DACs don't make much difference. I'd go with a cheap Auzen x-fi again, or Essence if you want the best deal on great specs (at the cost of lame drivers). EMU 0404 if you need external.

 

[Coupe]

Buy another Forte or go for the HTHD.
 
The Xonar have superior musicality from what I hear, but their positional (particularly for gaming) is not nearly as good.
 
Creative is no where near as good in musicality as the Auzentech and the Auzen has the same sound processing chip.
 
If you aren't a gamer or watch movies go with the xonar.  If you are and love music Auzen is the only choice.

 

[ROBSCIX]

I would say it depends on what you are after, the modern soundcards offer excellent sound and features.  You need to make a list of what you want and compare cards or external devices (if that is an option).  Just buy the one that gives you most of the features that you require.

 

[beeman458]

Don't worry about your power supply.
 
I'm sure glad I worried.
 

 

[Dalamar]

Quote:

Don't worry about your power supply.
 
I'm sure glad I worried.
 

And what did this magical new power supply do? Does it vacuum your rug, mop the floor, scrub the toilet, cook your food?
 
The power supply of your pc isn't going to affect sound quality, and a (good) 400 watts PSU will power pretty much any single-gpu system reliably. Maybe not those cards with 2 gpus onboard it though...
 
/facepalm

 

[beeman458]

And what did this magical new power supply do?
 
Yes indeed, it's magic as It brought you out from under your bridge.
 
What changing out the power supply did was open the sound stage up and add dynamics to the sound quality.  It was time and money well spent as in doing so, the change to a higher quality power supply added to the overall emotional impact of the sound quality.  And like it or not, quantifiable or not, that's what it's all about.
 
As to the old vs new power supply and the box that it's in, several things were changed.  I went from a 500w power supply to a 750w power supply which reduces internal heat stresses on the power supply and computer case as demands, percentage wise, are less.  Here are extensive tests for the next two, higher capacity, PSU's.
 
My rule of thumb is to never buy equipment that you will use more than eighty percent of it's rated capacity.  In this case, I'll probably never use more than sixty percent of the rated capacity.  The power supply is an intentional case of overkill.  And in doing so is more easily able to supply power so the "ripple" voltage is minimal; +/- ~30mV at the demand levels I expect to be put on the PSU.  So, my understanding, demands on capacitors are lessened and increased dynamics results, because the overall system is more efficient.
 
I'm running a quad core, not a single or duo core processor along with four HDD's, a boatload of fans and a highend graphics card using a gig of DDR5 memory.  Takes a lot of power to be able to sit, listen to some decent tunes and surf the web efficiently.
 
The power supply has discreet power cords as opposed to the traditional power supply ponytail, thereby reducing internal EMI.  Each of the supply cables are wrapped, further reducing any introduced EMI.
 
The STX has need of a +12v Molex power supply.  The sound card is supplied by a discreet power cord, there-by eliminating any shared line distortion.
 
And yes, all the above does directly affect sound quality as there's nothing wrong with having clean power being sent to your amplifier section in which to improve sound quality and overall emotional impact.  The difference between what I did and what others do, I put a commercial grade square box into my computer where nobody can see it as opposed to a fancy pants, audiophile grade amp on their computer desktop.  I do have to admit, those Audio-gd DAC/Amps do have their personal attractions.
 
The overall purpose of the exercise is to improve sound quality (emotional impact) and not add additional boxes to the desktop in the process. All you'll ever see after it's all said and done, are the headphones sitting to the side of the monitor.  Currently, there are no fancy interconnects, DAC's/Amps or pretty lights to show off or pump the ego (fancy pants headphone cable is on order) as there's simply a headphone, laying quietly on the desktop, waiting to be used.

 

[Dalamar]

And did you blind test it or are you another victim of placebo. Come on now, be honest.

 

[beeman458]

And did you blind test it or are you another victim of placebo. Come on now, be honest.
 
I notice that you didn't address any of the verifiable technical issues that I wrote about.
 
As to your question of honesty, there's nothing to be honest about.  Why?  There's no need to take a double blind test as first, unless psychotic, it's hard to test yourself.  Second, the double blind tests are bogus as their standards only hold up in alternate universes along with aliens, wormholes, parallel universes and existence itself, popping into being, all by itself.
 
The point, why would I allow myself to be swayed by a test that I know is bogus, is rigged to be sure and create fail, irrespective of who's taught bias nature supports the validity of the process?
 
???
 
You're welcome to hold close to your heart, the concept of double blind test results being the meta smoking gun that you're right and I'm wrong as I won't bother to debate you on the issue.  Why?  Because there's no point.

 

[Dalamar]

I don't think your setup would use over around 400-450 watts constant, meaning a well-made 550w should be plenty. Those huge watt supplies are for people with 2 (or more video) cards and probably multiple cpus. With power supplies load mainly affects the heat generation, fan noise, and lifespan of the PSU, certainly not SQ.
 
And you haven't done a DBT to prove that the power supply sounds better with a well-designed card like Essence, nor have you posted measurements that verify the same. My 550w (overkill, I assure you) has been a champ, and my Essence RMAA's are just fine.
 
OCed Q6600, OCed 8800GT, 4x1gb ram (OC doesn't matter, ram limited by bus speed), Essence, 3 hdds, 1 dvd-rw, too many usb devices to list. On 24/7, no sleep or power saving modes.
Only major difference between us will be the GPU's consumption. I have seen systems like mine get by perfectly on a 400w PSU from a reliable brand, at probably about 60% load tops.
My psu's power usage is so low it's actually wasteful, it's too much for my pc's needs.
 
Also, calling blind tests rigged and bogus is hilarious.

 

[beeman458]

Also, calling blind tests rigged and bogus is hilarious.
 
Calling them valid, is even more hilarious.  Yes, I know, fifty percent, you're guessing.  I got it.  Can you say bias thinking based upon arbitrary value systems?
 
You still haven't addressed the technical issues that I raised regarding the benefits of the better PSU that I listed and from the comments you did leave, I can understand why.  Either which way, addressed or unaddressed, there was a change for the better and I'm glad.
 
FWIW, I'm also running a Blu-Ray rw, 8gig of memory and a much newer graphics card, a GT240, I don't OC and have no USB connects to mention but one for charging the Bluetooth ear piece; mouse and keyboard don't count.  I can see you're leaving out of the conversation how stressing a power supply (ripple) affects power output stability and how this can affect an audio signal.  If I didn't give a rat's patootie about sound quality, my old power supply would have been quite sufficient for the purpose of providing the computer's power supply needs as considering that I used the onboard sound card to listen to YouTube, it didn't matter.
 
Now, sound quality matters.  In the process of improving onboard sound quality, I tried an expensive power cord which ended up losing out to the the already broken in computer cord that I received with the old PSU that I replaced.  I know you don't like cables and that's all well and good but in this case, the addition of the expensive power cord sucked the life out of the music.  The reaction was an immediate visceral reaction of disappointment; crestfallen if you will.  I listened to a couple of reference pieces that my emotions were intimately familiar with and nothing but disappointment.  I went back to the cheapie power cord and the positive feelings came back.  One thing I've learned in life is that your subconscious knows more about life then you do.  Learning to listen to what your subconscious it telling you is a good thing.  And that's a check you can cash all day long.
 
Not everything I do has made a difference.  Next change is the headphone cable that's on order.  Time will tell if it provides a benefit.  If anything, even if the cable doesn't improve the sound quality (emotional impact), my hopes are that like the power cord, it's addition doesn't suck the life out of the music because it's going be a very beautiful headphone cable and I will remove it and use the original Sennheiser provided cable if it even thinks of sucking the life out of the music.
 
Now that sound quality matters, I've made changes that have made a huge difference.  Sorry to break it to you but it's about what I can hear, not what you think I can't hear.  What you want to believe is based upon a meta study collected via a series of tests based upon bogus testing methodologies which use parameters and methods which are guaranteed to create failed results.  Can you say stacked deck.  I knew you could.

 

[Dalamar]

If RMAA tests aren't better after the PSU, then the upgrade did nothing. Sorry, but that's how it is. If you want to live in your little fantasy world carry on.
RMAA already shows that there is not really anything to be gained from any upgrade at all.
 
It's hilarious that you use terms like "sucking the life out" btw, when the difference, if any, is absolutely tiny compared to what the artists/engineers often do to your music. Gotta love loudness war.
Actually, most of what you, leeperry, and the cable guys say is always good for a quick laugh...

 

[beeman458]

If you want to live in your little fantasy world carry on.
 
How mature of you.  I see things on the flip-side of the coin but hey, you're always welcome to your "opinion."  Think about it, in history, how many "expert" opinions have been overturned by changing "facts?"  Time will show that DBT are based on bogus parameters as they try to sum up an analogue hearing experience in digital, on/off terms as in fifty to seventy percent right and you're guessing.  Now that is laughable.
 
....compared to what the artists/engineers often do to your music.
 
Agreed, ya gotta love EQ'ng your sound and what was the state-of-mind of the engineer when they came to work in the morning?
 
Gotta love loudness war.
 
I listen at low levels (5/100), so sound recording quality is very important.  Being spoiled by what I've done to the sound quality issues, I can no longer listen to poor quality rips or YouTube.  I think anybody who refuses to EQ their sound is giving so much away in doing so.
 
Boo, Hoo, Hoo.
 
Somebody here uses a tag line that goes something along the lines of: "Keep your hearing honest, listen to live, unplugged music, once a week."  I think that's an excellent suggestion.
 

 

[gwillys]

rolling psu's & power cord's?  intriguing.
 
if you want to improve the power situation on a xonar stx/st, you have to replace the smt 7805 & 7812 voltage regulators with something like burson and or dexa. it's that simple, and written in stone