[oldschool]

It's really good with albums that aren't mixed "in your face", but more laid back. Otherwise it can make a more forward sounding album to sound shrill.

I agree that 4P throws too much of the high end forward, while mids and bass are pushed back. I recently received my Alessandro MS-1 and while not nearly as detailed as the 4P, it has a more prominent mid range and vocals are cleaner. I still love my 4P, though.

I wonder if I will ever pull the trigger on the APS cable. Time (and my wallet) will tell

 

[EFN]

For a very long time I have always loved Ety's bass response. But I admit that the highs can be overpowering and thus need to be controlled a bit. I choose the amp route and with the right match ER-4 rocks.

 

[antk]

Quote:

It's really good with albums that aren't mixed "in your face", but more laid back. Otherwise it can make a more forward sounding album to sound shrill.

Allman Brother's 'At Fillmore East' came to mind (primarily, because my DAP's shuffle algorithm just thought of 'You don't love me'.

Quote:

I agree that 4P throws too much of the high end forward, while mids and bass are pushed back. I recently received my Alessandro MS-1 and while not nearly as detailed as the 4P, it has a more prominent mid range and vocals are cleaner. I still love my 4P, though.

I'll agree to a bit more energy to the highs. But to me, the bass always retains the qualities of er-4p's that we love (accuracy and texture/timbre). Would you guys think that the extra energy in the highs can be tempered with the P-S adaptor and an amp ?

Quote:

I wonder if I will ever pull the trigger on the APS cable. Time (and my wallet) will tell

Sadly, my 40-year old ears will probably not be able to discern any difference

 

[ZoNtO]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMarchingMule /img/forum/go_quote.gif Indeed, the ER4P/S bass is great, but once the main instruments (esp. in rock-based genres) kick in, the bass is immediately thrown into the back row.

Funny cuz I notice that my car system does this too on most modern music even with it's dedicated 4 channels for speakers and subwoofer mono to my Atlas 12. I think it's mostly due to the fact that modern sound engineers compress the busier parts of music and as such the bass takes a hit there.

 

[Usama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antk /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am a big fan of J.S. Bach, jazz and the ER-4P. And I just had the combination explode over me while listening to Jacques Loussier's 'The Bach Book - The 40th Anniversary album'. It is the kind of music (and recording) that make the ER-4P really shine. The interesting thing though, is that throughout the listening session I was most impressed with the reproduction of the bass ( in this case coming primarily from the kick drum and the upright bass). It was deep, vibrant, complete and full. At the same time, it was beautifully controlled (not a hint of bloating) and incredibly textured (so lifelike that I could almost envision the bassist swinging with his big instrument and plucking those massive strings) and punchy when needed ( for the kick drum). And over all this, a splendid layer of delightful mids and airy highs. It really was a wow!!! session. I just thought I'd share it with you and see what I get. I know that the er-4p's bass is not well regarded here. Maybe it was the beautiful music (it really is a very good album), maybe I just was in the mood for this, maybe it is not even bass what I am talking about ( does anyone know how low the upright bass can go ?). But I was really impressed (once again) with these phones. So would you care to comment ? I wish you and your family a stress free and merry Christmas/Hanukkah/Eid al-Adha/Kwanzaa and a happy new year. And may every listening session be as enjoyable and fascinating as my most recent one was (isn't that why we are all here ?)

Are you using an amp? Secondly, how high is your volume in your music player as a percent?

 

[lbholde]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antk /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was most impressed with the reproduction of the bass ... It was deep, vibrant, complete and full. At the same time, it was beautifully controlled (not a hint of bloating) and incredibly textured... and punchy when needed

I could not agree with you more!

 

[DeTrun]

When I was reading this thread, I started to think about this: When listening to speakers, I can feel the impact of the bass in my body, but I don't feel as much impact in my ears. I'm able to hear the controlled bass, but the impact is in my ears not as big as in my body.

Etymotic has made an IEM that replicates the sound as we would hear it in real life (= not recorded).
This is from the Etymotic-website:
Quote:

A perfect recording of a live performance played through earphones with 100% accuracy would produce the same sound at the eardrum as the live performance. A complicating factor is that the acoustic resonance and horn effects of the ear change a flat signal entering the open ear to an eardrum signal with the approximate frequency characteristic of the target curve. A perfect earphone will create that same frequency characteristic at the eardrum.

I think the sound we would hear in real life in our ears doesn't have much bass impact. The sound in real life has deep, controlled, tight bass, without much impact.

Does this mean that adding bass in headphones = trying to compensate for the loss of impact in your body?

It's hard to explain, especially because English isn't my first language, so I hope I've explained it well enough

Please correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am

).

I also was thinking that the ER4p isn't made for certain types of music, like trance, because the song was created and not recorded (= sounds used in the song do not exist in real life, it's made in a studio). It would suit jazz, classic music, because the instruments, vocals are all recorded, so the ER4p could replicate it as it should sound in real life. I know, this is bad explained. I have a headache.

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeTrun /img/forum/go_quote.gif When I was reading this thread, I started to think about this: When listening to speakers, I can feel the impact of the bass in my body, but I don't feel as much impact in my ears. I'm able to hear the controlled bass, but the impact is in my ears not as big as in my body. Etymotic has made an IEM that replicates the sound as we would hear it in real life (= not recorded). This is from the Etymotic-website: I think the sound we would hear in real life in our ears doesn't have much bass impact. The sound in real life has deep, controlled, tight bass, without much impact. Does this mean that adding bass in headphones = trying to compensate for the loss of impact in your body? It's hard to explain, especially because English isn't my first language, so I hope I've explained it well enough Please correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am ). I also was thinking that the ER4p isn't made for certain types of music, like trance, because the song was created and not recorded (= sounds used in the song do not exist in real life, it's made in a studio). It would suit jazz, classic music, because the instruments, vocals are all recorded, so the ER4p could replicate it as it should sound in real life. I know, this is bad explained. I have a headache.

well ive read many professional sources that say for sound to be realistic coming from in ear phones there should be a slight hump in the lower sounds to compensate for what we feel in real life.

i think your confusing feeling with hearing a little tho, because bass is very much heard but sub bass is felt. the problem the er4's have imo is the fact they were clearly built with the premise in mind that bass cant be produced with earphones so we wont bother. are they trying to say live music is bassless? because when ive heard live music the bass like you say is very powerful and tight, but i think its also very impactful, when a kick drum goes you tend to feel the hits, etymotic dont seem to ''try'' and produce this power because at the time they were made its likely they knew they couldnt do it.

nowadays tho technology has moved on and manufacturers are actually able to produce a powerful low end, this is what confuses me about etymotic tho...we now have the technology to recreate bass pretty well and still they have not utilized this technology to produce a more realistic earphone. i put this down to neglagence (spelling?) myself tho, i think they are so successful with the ety er4's that they worry about losing the fanbase if they create a new set of multi driver earphones with bass claiming its more realistic...can you imagine all those er4 fans faces if they saw that happen, they would be heartbroken about the er4's not being top of ety's pile.

 

[DeTrun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif i think your confusing feeling with hearing a little tho, because bass is very much heard but sub bass is felt. the problem the er4's have imo is the fact they were clearly built with the premise in mind that bass cant be produced with earphones so we wont bother. are they trying to say live music is bassless? because when ive heard live music the bass like you say is very powerful and tight, but i think its also very impactful, when a kick drum goes you tend to feel the hits, etymotic dont seem to ''try'' and produce this power because at the time they were made its likely they knew they couldnt do it. nowadays tho technology has moved on and manufacturers are actually able to produce a powerful low end, this is what confuses me about etymotic tho...we now have the technology to recreate bass pretty well and still they have not utilized this technology to produce a more realistic earphone. i put this down to neglagence (spelling?) myself tho, i think they are so successful with the ety er4's that they worry about losing the fanbase if they create a new set of multi driver earphones with bass claiming its more realistic...can you imagine all those er4 fans faces if they saw that happen, they would be heartbroken about the er4's not being top of ety's pile.

I think they meant that when listening to music at a live performance, you do not feel the bass inside the ears. The music does have bass, we feel it in our body, our head,... but not in our ear canal. When you hear a kick drum, do you actually feel the bass in your ear canal?
The er4's are able to recreate bass, it's just very realistic, tight with a realistic impact, which is not much (although this is based on how much bass ppl want), but in real life (=no recording), it's the same, I guess.
When listening to someone playing kettle drums, I think that the impact in your ear canal is less when standing there, than listening to a recording of it with bass-heavy cans. But when standing there, you feel the impact in your body. When listening to headphones, you don't.
This is what i meant with more bass = compensating for impact.

Realistic bass = not powerful bass. Etymotic tries to make a realistic, accurate IEM, which is the ER4S. That's why they probably didn't make one with more bass (more bass = not realistic = not accurate). Also, the ER4S are made for studio monitoring. They are not made for fun listening. They have created a IEM with more bass, which is the ER4P. Compared to other IEM, these do not have enough bass, are analytical. But other IEM do not try to make a realistic IEM. They all have their own special sound signature to enjoy music. So it's not about having the technology, it's about what kind of sound they want to create.
I don't think the er4-fanbase would be disappointed when a new IEM would be announced, I think they would get the new IEM instead

There's a reason why these ER4 still exist, why Etymotic still didn't made a 'better' version for 17 years, why they still have a fanbase and why someone has made a balanced ER4P. It's because they are already one of the top-IEMs (and other various reasons).

Merry Christmas!

 

[Usama]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeTrun /img/forum/go_quote.gif When I was reading this thread, I started to think about this: When listening to speakers, I can feel the impact of the bass in my body, but I don't feel as much impact in my ears. I'm able to hear the controlled bass, but the impact is in my ears not as big as in my body. Etymotic has made an IEM that replicates the sound as we would hear it in real life (= not recorded). This is from the Etymotic-website: I think the sound we would hear in real life in our ears doesn't have much bass impact. The sound in real life has deep, controlled, tight bass, without much impact. Does this mean that adding bass in headphones = trying to compensate for the loss of impact in your body? It's hard to explain, especially because English isn't my first language, so I hope I've explained it well enough Please correct me if I'm wrong (which I probably am ). I also was thinking that the ER4p isn't made for certain types of music, like trance, because the song was created and not recorded (= sounds used in the song do not exist in real life, it's made in a studio). It would suit jazz, classic music, because the instruments, vocals are all recorded, so the ER4p could replicate it as it should sound in real life. I know, this is bad explained. I have a headache.

Great post. I was going to make a totally new thread about Etymotic's advertising slogan about live performances. I thought they meant real life as in "you are standing way back in the concert" kind of sound.

 

[DeTrun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usama /img/forum/go_quote.gif Great post. I was going to make a totally new thread about Etymotic's advertising slogan about live performances. I thought they meant real life as in "you are standing way back in the concert" kind of sound.

Thank you, I appreciate it. Hmm, making a new thread would be nice indeed

 

[EFN]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ..nowadays tho technology has moved on and manufacturers are actually able to produce a powerful low end, this is what confuses me about etymotic tho...we now have the technology to recreate bass pretty well and still they have not utilized this technology to produce a more realistic earphone. i put this down to neglagence (spelling?) myself tho, i think they are so successful with the ety er4's that they worry about losing the fanbase if they create a new set of multi driver earphones with bass claiming its more realistic...can you imagine all those er4 fans faces if they saw that happen, they would be heartbroken about the er4's not being top of ety's pile.

It is amazing that after over one year you still going about downplaying Ety merits at every available opportunity. It is a well known fact Ety are not for bassheads so why state the obvious? You don't like Ety so be it, it's your choice, do you really feel the need to evangelize that legions of Ety users out there are all wrong? that they are bass deaf or something like that?

 

[DeTrun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFN /img/forum/go_quote.gif It is amazing that after over one year you still going about downplaying Ety merits at every available opportunity. It is a well known fact Ety are not for bassheads so why state the obvious? You don't like Ety so be it, it's your choice, do you really feel the need to evangelize that legions of Ety users out there are all wrong? that they are bass deaf or something like that?

I was also wondering why. One year? Oh wait, I just read jinx20001's signature. Well, it might be a bit harder to take his/her posts about Ety's serious.

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by EFN /img/forum/go_quote.gif It is amazing that after over one year you still going about downplaying Ety merits at every available opportunity. It is a well known fact Ety are not for bassheads so why state the obvious? You don't like Ety so be it, it's your choice, do you really feel the need to evangelize that legions of Ety users out there are all wrong? that they are bass deaf or something like that?

i dont downplay the ety's in any which way, i have praised them on occasions and ive always firmly believed they are pretty good but i do think they are very very genre specific, what annoys me about half of ety users is the fact they must insist the ety's are the most realistic out there when this is just not the case.

it may well be true for lets say classical music, yes you may not find earphones that produce classical music as well as the ety's but then we have reggae, and for this genre they are simply unacceptable as this genre is very heavily based on the bass and the simple fact of the matter is those folks working at etymotic must not have listened to a good reggae track as this genre is amazingly dull on the ety's.

and no i didnt say ety users must be bass deaf, but what i do believe is that ety users get used to having minimal bass and so when they hear something like the triple fi 10 they always come out with comments reffering to how bad the bass is and how bloated it sounds, but this is just not the case, its simply bass that is under-amplified when using the ety's

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeTrun /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was also wondering why. One year? Oh wait, I just read jinx20001's signature. Well, it might be a bit harder to take his/her posts about Ety's serious.

hold on pal, how long have you been posting exactly? oh let me guess your one of those guys that have been trawling the forums for years but didnt bother signing up right?? yeh sure.

and whats my signature got to do with it? are you saying those people interested in bass built music cant be taken seriously when commenting about ety's? if the ety's were so amazing they would be great for all music genre's wouldnt they?? this is the point im making. i never said they are terrible, but they are nowhere near the best for every genre of music.