Wow ! What if I praised the ER-4P's bass ?

[Spad]

As DeTrun said, the ER4 design has been around for about 17 years. I've had mine for seven, and while ears haven't changed, audio technology certainly has. Nothing in the IEM category compared to Etys back in the day, but that's no longer the case. The bass reproduction of the latest designs has to be heard to be believed. But even if you move on, there are things about the Etys that you will always miss. Hell, I miss my original '56 Chevy convertible, even though I've had many, many snazzier cars since then.

 

[DeTrun]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif it may well be true for lets say classical music, yes you may not find earphones that produce classical music as well as the ety's but then we have reggae, and for this genre they are simply unacceptable as this genre is very heavily based on the bass and the simple fact of the matter is those folks working at etymotic must not have listened to a good reggae track as this genre is amazingly dull on the ety's. and no i didnt say ety users must be bass deaf, but what i do believe is that ety users get used to having minimal bass and so when they hear something like the triple fi 10 they always come out with comments reffering to how bad the bass is and how bloated it sounds, but this is just not the case, its simply bass that is under-amplified when using the ety's

Indeed, they are genre specific and yes, the ety's are made for that kind of music, I guess. I also have posted this, in one of my previous posts in this thread, I think

But isn't the bass of the ER4 neutral and not under-amplified?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif hold on pal, how long have you been posting exactly? oh let me guess your one of those guys that have been trawling the forums for years but didnt bother signing up right?? yeh sure. and whats my signature got to do with it? are you saying those people interested in bass built music cant be taken seriously when commenting about ety's? if the ety's were so amazing they would be great for all music genre's wouldnt they?? this is the point im making. i never said they are terrible, but they are nowhere near the best for every genre of music.

I didn't 'bother', because I knew I would spend too much money if I did. Well, it's too late now

Do you have a problem with ppl who only lurk?

About the signature, I meant that you are a bass lover. And Ety's do not have much bass impact, but they weren't made for bass-music. Bass lover downplaying Ety's = logical = not taken seriously by me. And you are not really friendly.
The ER4's are amazing, why do you think Etymotic hasn't upgraded them 17 years?
If you don't really think they are terrible, then I'm sorry, I misunderstood. But you shouldn't talk about Etymotic losing their fanbase if they added more bass and saying that they have to add some bass, because it's possible and they have the technology. Etymotic wanted to make an accurate IEM = not much bass impact.
I apologize again. Merry Christmas!

 

[nc8000]

I have in the house 3 takes on bass, my sons DT770/80 PRO. L3000 and then my balanced ER4-P. Of the 3 the ER4 by far produces the clearest most well defined and cleanest bass and possibly also the deepest however there is no way it is going to match the other 2 for viceral impact and bass weight nor match the L3000 for pure prat. I will allow that I never listen to any of the "modern" bass heavy music but I don't think you will find much music that reaches as deep as church organ for which I love the ER4. So no, the ER4 is not the one phone that will do everything for everybody and all sorts of music but then that phone in my opinion does not exist hence most of us have more than one phone.

 

[jinx20001]

hey man merry christmas!!

nah i dont have problems with lurkers, we all have to lurk before deciding wether to sign up. no worries eh, like i said i do respect the ety's i really do but being a lover of music thats built on bass you can see why they certainly aint for me

 

[jinx20001]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nc8000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have in the house 3 takes on bass, my sons DT770/80 PRO. L3000 and then my balanced ER4-P. Of the 3 the ER4 by far produces the clearest most well defined and cleanest bass and possibly also the deepest however there is no way it is going to match the other 2 for viceral impact and bass weight nor match the L3000 for pure prat. I will allow that I never listen to any of the "modern" bass heavy music but I don't think you will find much music that reaches as deep as church organ for which I love the ER4. So no, the ER4 is not the one phone that will do everything for everybody and all sorts of music but then that phone in my opinion does not exist hence most of us have more than one phone.

100% correct theres no headphones that do everything great, i was just pointing out that maybe the ety's are a little more restricted in what they do, saying that however, what they do, they do the best.

 

[Spad]

Not to take sides, but regarding classical music and the need for bass, IIRC, the organ's C-pedal comes in at a growling 32 Hz. And just listen to Rostropovich's cello with something like the Westone 3, not to mention any piece containing strong double bass passages. The Etys are wonderfully entertaining with classical music, including small ensemble compositions, but much of the bass foundation is missing. Until recently, I thought this was simply the tradeoff one made for the convenience of using IEMs. But this is no longer true. In fact, one gives up very little with the newest IEM designs in comparison to full sized headphones. IEMs have reached an amazing level of refinement and nowhere is that more on display than in their ability to reproduce full, accurate bass.

 

[nc8000]

I have not heard the Westone3 but going from antonyfirst's review (whom I know and trust) I don't think it would be for me. Likewise I did own the Tripple.fi 10 and liked it a fair bit but found I was still missing the ER4 sound (apart from them hurting like h... and I never found a really comfortable way to wear them). And now with my experiment with balancing an ER4 I find that it gives more of everything and I'm not really missing anything in the music I use it with. It is still burning in at home 24/7 while I'm away for Christmas but I'm giving it quite a high possibility that I will sell my GS-1000 and keep the ER4.

 

[Spad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nc8000 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have not heard the Westone3 but going from antonyfirst's review (whom I know and trust) I don't think it would be for me. Likewise I did own the Tripple.fi 10 and liked it a fair bit but found I was still missing the ER4 sound (apart from them hurting like h... and I never found a really comfortable way to wear them). And now with my experiment with balancing an ER4 I find that it gives more of everything and I'm not really missing anything in the music I use it with. It is still burning in at home 24/7 while I'm away for Christmas but I'm giving it quite a high possibility that I will sell my GS-1000 and keep the ER4.

Well, I won't belabor the point but I've learned over lo' these many years that opinions on Head-fi, as on so many similar sites, fall into a few well entrenched categories:

1) Those who currently own the products under review

2) Those who once owned some or all of them and judge from memory

3) Those who have never owned any of them but perhaps briefly heard a friend's

4) Those who have never heard any of them

5) Those who have heard one of them and rely on the opinion of others

It would appear that number 1 could give the best advice, but not necessarily accurate advice. And particularly when discussing IEMs since we all know the unpredictable factors involved such as the tips chosen, canal shapes, and so on.

In the case of number 2, experienced audiophiles know how difficult it is to compare 'phones when both are readily available. Our "acoustic" memory is so short that even several seconds or a slight variation in volume is enough to totally skew our perceptions.

For number 3, I think we'll all agree that it takes a while to become acclimated to new 'phones. I know that my first impressions usually require later revision, and often lots of it.

Regarding number 4, these seem to be the most strongly held opinions of all, and ofen come from the most enthusiastic but least experienced of us.

Finally, in number 5's case, we come to a fairly common example. I've found that even firsthand experience doesn't travel well in the world of audio, so I quickly discard those that contain phrases such as "I have not heard xyz, but . . . ." This simply never strikes me as informed opinion.

For me, the bottom-line is sheer entertainment value. Simply put, do I really enjoy listening to it. If so, I use it. If not, it either goes into a drawer with the dozens of other "also-rans" or I sell it.

 

[jinx20001]

well said...but if everybody thought the way you do we would have nothing to discuss here on head fi as we all would get on with our lives and enjoy $10 earphones. its because of everybody's opinion on forums like these that we invest on trying to improve equipment, and why would we do that if we were happy with what we had?? who knows.

the point im making is none of us have heard every set of phones there is to hear but we trust what others have to say as people generally dont usually hear completely different to yourself. your saying you should never trust somebody's opinion based on hearsay because its unreliable, and you may well be right, but people usually give a reasonable explanation of how they perform, even if in the end you do hear them a little different.

 

[Taikero]

I think one of the biggest things that easily affects how someone reviews a product is what source they're using.

For instance, you're going to find a large difference in sound going from Windows Media Player to foobar2000/Winamp/etc. using an optical out to a good DAC and possibly an amp. Heck, even just using ASIO4All to bypass the kmixer and all of its associated baggage is like a revelation.

Same applies to the difference in sound you get from different DAPs.

You also have to hope the person wasn't using 128 Kbps (or lower!) CBR MP3s, although I doubt that happens much, if at all, here.

 

[Spad]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinx20001 /img/forum/go_quote.gif well said...but if everybody thought the way you do we would have nothing to discuss here on head fi as we all would get on with our lives and enjoy $10 earphones. its because of everybody's opinion on forums like these that we invest on trying to improve equipment, and why would we do that if we were happy with what we had?? who knows. the point im making is none of us have heard every set of phones there is to hear but we trust what others have to say as people generally dont usually hear completely different to yourself. your saying you should never trust somebody's opinion based on hearsay because its unreliable, and you may well be right, but people usually give a reasonable explanation of how they perform, even if in the end you do hear them a little different.

If everyone thought the way I do, most would have invested many thousands of dollars in audio gear--as I have. And, slightly OT, they'd be able to afford it.

The most important part played by posters lies in the consensus formed, and there can be a certain validity to that. But even consensus should be taken with at least a small boulder of salt. In many cases one poster's views are based entirely on the views of another who based his on something his buddy heard. And it soon becomes conventional wisdom in the forums. I mean we all know about the Sennheiser "veil," right? I recall when that one started and it was fun to watch it snowball, much to the consternation of Senn fans.

I assume you've read the W3 threads. If so, don't you agree that opinion on them runs to the very extremes in both directions? I bought them recently and IM(big)O I can find truth in both the most laudatory post as well as the most denigrating. Ultimately the truth varies for all of us and cannot, repeat cannot, be discerned without personal experience.

Finally, taste has to be considered to some degree. I don't subscribe to the view that there are rock headphones, classical headphones, and so forth. I believe only relatively poor headphones fit restricted categories. The best will sound fine with every genre. But someone with your tastes will undoubtedly notice a lack of bass response far more quickly than someone who, like me, prefers classical and jazz.

I don't want to beat this subject to death, and I think I already hear it pleading for mercy, so I'll stop and move on to dessert--another favorite subject of mine. As Mr. Clemens said, "Everyone has to believe in something and I believe I'll have a drink."