[sennsay]

DT880 pads Pt 2: I'll keep it simple; they're nice ....... and they bland-ify the music. Less detail and there is a general overall softening from top to bottom, especially below the lower treble.
Nice ... like an older tube amp is nice (though often not so bland!). Not bad, enjoyable, bouncy enough rhythms .... and bland. I lose interest after a while .. say, a few tracks.
This was highlighted hugely when I decided to pop on the Senn HD6xx with Mogami attached. Night and day, brothers! I'm not quite what's happened to the HD6xx or to me on the night, but they were really rather good. We had a great time together Several albums later, including the wonderful Sleeps With Angels by Neil Young; Lucinda Williams' Down Where The Spirit Meets The Bone - specifically the first half of disc 1, down to the brilliant West Memphis; ending the night with Talk Talk's Spirit Of Eden. I don't think I've ever enjoyed Sleeps With Angels so much! Loads of great detail, biting and growling feedback guitar, grungy bass lines and the quite amazing differences in the way the drum kit is used on various tracks, sometimes compressed into a tight focus right in the back of the soundstage and other times much fuller and more forward, yet always taut and detailed. So easy to hear the kicker bounce of a taut skin and the way the drummer emphasises some beats and not others, very expressive.
I simply have to get more Mogami cable! The stuff is a revelation and it could make for some terrific interconnects as well. I would have to say too, all hail to the Mimby DAC, it had been warmed up all day and although it's excellent an hour or so after switch-on, there is an effortless dynamic freedom that comes from just being left on. Same goes for the Magni 3, though to a much lesser extent, the whole system just sings together and I'm just never aware that I'm listening to electronics.

 

[Malfunkt]

I can say in stock form, with the fabric pads (found in version 2 of the Ref1), and a regular aftermarket HD650 series cable, this can is gold. I'm only enjoying it more and more. Tried my LCD2 for a while, and they almost sound a bit resonant. The timbre of the instruments sound correct on the 540. Absolute magic. String sections, omg. Classical and score you just sink into, gives me chills thinking about it.

Right now listening to a suitable recording given the year. Sibelius - Symphony No.1, Karelia Suite (1986) Ashkenazy. Incredible.

The 540 is the right tool, allowing you to be enveloped in such masterworks.

 

[seanc6441]

I can say in stock form, with the fabric pads (found in version 2 of the Ref1), and a regular aftermarket HD650 series cable, this can is gold. I'm only enjoying it more and more. Tried my LCD2 for a while, and they almost sound a bit resonant. The timbre of the instruments sound correct on the 540. Absolute magic. String sections, omg. Classical and score you just sink into, gives me chills thinking about it.

Right now listening to a suitable recording given the year. Sibelius - Symphony No.1, Karelia Suite (1986) Ashkenazy. Incredible.

The 540 is the right tool, allowing you to be enveloped in such masterworks.

Fabric? So it’s not velour?

By the way my 540 stock pads were velour but I find that if I stretch the headband to apply the least pressure possible the sound improves. There still needs to be a seal to get the bass impact, but if you compress the pads too much the sound becomes congested and you lose some detail. This is why I abandoned the thin foam inners from the ‘dt990’ pads set. I put them back on and pulled the cups slightly away from my ear so it was only lightly resting... Sound improved significantly. Now to stretch the headband permanently somehow... Maybe a hairdryer and some light pulling to let the plastic ‘re-shape’ abit.

 

[Malfunkt]

@seanc6441 yeah, mine are fabric. The velour appeared on later models like the 560 (and HD540 II ?). It’s possible that Senn changed the tuning of certain models and versions to work with different pads, considering how much they change the signature.

 

[seanc6441]

@seanc6441 yeah, mine are fabric. The velour appeared on later models like the 560. Its possible that Senn changed the tuning of certain models and versions to work with different pads, considering how much they change the signature.

In your experience does the fabric give a greater seal or more breathabilty over velour? I’ve never tried a fabric pad before but I may keep an eye out for some.

 

[sennsay]

@seanc6441 yeah, mine are fabric. The velour appeared on later models like the 560 (and HD540 II ?). It’s possible that Senn changed the tuning of certain models and versions to work with different pads, considering how much they change the signature.

Yes, the originals were fabric on mine, extremely comfortable! With those pads the Ref1s were THE most comfortable headphone ever. I've gone through two sets of them over the years and they are no more now, none in stock ... unless you get very lucky. But then, I'll be sticking with the pleather pads regardless, or very similar, most likely.
And joy of joys, I've had a response from a Sydney cable dealer who will happily sell me as much Mogami cable as I'd like! I'll be onto that one today!

 

[sennsay]

Woohoo, I have 5M of Mogami 2893 arriving by express mail tomorrow. It's cable time! The Sony MDR-1Rs will get a new length of Mogami too. I've also heard great things about their interconnects that are often used in very high end systems and why wouldn't you. I'm going to buy a small pair to run between the Mimby and Magni 3 just to hear what it's like ... will it be remotely as excellent as the Slinkylinks, I wonder? It's certainly a heck of a lot cheaper!

 

[sennsay]

My HD250 Linear I capsules arrived a day early and it looks like the new Mogami cable will be a day late All's well though, so it was playtime this afternoon with the Linear 1s.
Firstly, carefully levering off the Ref1s capsules from the headband, I don't want to break that one! What to do with the linear capsules for pads ... they came with the right felts that make for the correct bass balance - the white rings in the pics, apparently some folks take them out and I'll get to that in a minute. Straight up though, felts in, thin driver covers in, pleather pads on. Not what I might have expected, though I didn't have any particular ones in the first place. Full in the bass, blurred actually and the same went for the rest of the frequency range, very smooth. Not at all what I might have expected. Hmm. Didn't matter which cable, stock HD6xx or Mogami, same result just with a very slightly different balance, a little more forward with the Senn cable. So, out with the white felt rings then. Vastly better focus and more detail in the bass, the balance is lightened somewhat, but at least I could hear The Who do their thing with some life and clarity. Next, the DT880 pads and amazingly, they do improve the balance AND remain quite comfortable. Yes, still a little soft, yet overall not bad at all. The bass lacks some dynamic impact, the crack of the kick drum and the following weight and Lucinda Williams sounded far less vague and blurred, compared with the pleather pads.
More hmm, a period of time followed where I took out the driver cover and left the felt in place with the centre exposed, then added a very thin piece of material but the best balance is with the felt and the thin driver cover (that came with the DT880 pads in the first place) in place.
I still think that good pleather pads will be better, but not the ones I've been using on the Ref1s, I feel thicker pads could be more suitable and the ones that someone around here uses and mentioned the other day could be the go. I shall order some tomorrow, maybe two sets with a pair for the Ref1s too. These little critters: https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Earpads-Ear-Pads-Ear-Cushion-for-Sennheiser-HD250-HD540-HD560-HD560II-Headphones/122485312307?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649
Yes, it true, I'm amazed that I did not get such great results from the pleather pads with the HD250 Linear as I do so readily and deliciously with the Ref1s! It just goes to show me how variable results can be changing even little things with these sonic beasties. Even removing the felt rings makes such a difference here and the level of bass drops off quite significantly without them, even if the clarity of bass notes improves (pleather pads only). Also with the these particular pleather pads, treble is very smooth, maybe a touch muted in level (as with the Ref1s just a teeny bit, which doesn't bother me, as I'm always enjoying the music so much!). With the DT880 pads, the treble is revealed to probably more normal levels for this headphone, from what I have heard now, even with a little peak on occasions, though not what I would call bright, as such. My Sony MDR-1Rs are brighter and more forward in the mids. With the velour pads here, they are on a rough par now with the HD6xx. I can hear a little lower mid, upper bass colouration too, they are not as superbly even, of-one-piece that the Ref1s are so, although I can certainly hear the family resemblance. A work in progress

 

[sennsay]

Just listening casually to the HD250 Linear 1s using the Meyer Corda 2Move portable DAC/amp via USB from iTunes, using the amp's own DAC and the HD6xx cable. The little amp runs them rather well, volume set to around 2:30, very clear and open, nice mids and treble, good detail and vocal diction with the delightful voice of Tui Mamaki and the rest of The Mamaku Project. I'm not convinced by the bass of the HD250s so far, more experimentation with pads will be needed, it's a bit .... mmm ... uninteresting compared to the rest of the range, which is giving really rather good results from this little amp, very articulate. There is a mid bass boom/bloom that creates a bit of a disconnect from the rest of the range, not big but a notable colouration that I'm certainly not used to, considering that the Ref1s are fuller and go much deeper. What the HD250s do have is that coherent soundfield that is so natural to the Ref1s and other cans often struggle to emulate in such a holistic manner. I'm impressed so far with the level of treble detail without exaggeration, very nice cymbal work here. They are very comfortable to wear ..... vocals are really very good! The DT880 pads are much better on the HD250s than the Ref1s! The Corda 2Move is excelling itself tonight Remarkably insightful and tuneful. Very promising!
BTW, has anyone tried the felt rings with the HD540 drivers at all? I wonder ........

 

[jon parker]

Really enjoying my own recently purchased HD 250's - Such a great headphone and a perfect brother to the HD 540
These are the pads they came with. Certainly haven't had a desire yet to change but will do later to see what changes

https://www.ebay.de/itm/2-Ohrpolste...m=142322218532&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507

 

[sennsay]

Really enjoying my own recently purchased HD 250's - Such a great headphone and a perfect brother to the HD 540
These are the pads they came with. Certainly haven't had a desire yet to change but will do later to see what changes

https://www.ebay.de/itm/2-Ohrpolster-passend-an-Sennheiser-HD-250-linear-u-HD-250-Linear-II-HD250-II/142322218532?_trkparms=aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160727114228&meid=49fe7242e183410c91dc9b6b1ed6bd5d&pid=100290&rk=1&rkt=4&sd=142322218532&itm=142322218532&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507

Yes! Those are the very sort I'm going to buy tomorrow. How do you find the bass with them? I'm intrigued and curious. I've just listened to an astounding version of YT of Psalm 53 sung in Aramaic and the vocal detail is superb. Indeed, a good brother to the 540s

 

[jon parker]

Yes! Those are the very sort I'm going to buy tomorrow. How do you find the bass with them? I'm intrigued and curious. I've just listened to an astounding version of YT of Psalm 53 sung in Aramaic and the vocal detail is superb. Indeed, a good brother to the 540s

Bass is great, maybe warmer & richer lower down. Hard to judge objectively as Im listening though hybrid tube amp !
I think as You've found yourself - the main and maybe only differences between the [open back] 540 and the 250 is that the 250 has more detail due to a clearer crisper louder treble
and a deeper richer low end beneath the low end of the 540's low end !
I find them bizzarly similar though. A closed back should not have a soundstage like they do !
What voodoo is this ? ):

I really like the pads though. Top quality. Im looking forward to trying them on the 540's and the velours on the 250's's !

 

[sennsay]

Bass is great, maybe warmer & richer lower down. Hard to judge objectively as Im listening though hybrid tube amp !
I think as You've found yourself - the main and maybe only differences between the [open back] 540 and the 250 is that the 250 has more detail due to a clearer crisper louder treble
and a deeper richer low end beneath the low end of the 540's low end !
I find them bizzarly similar though. A closed back should not have a soundstage like they do !
What voodoo is this ? ):

I really like the pads though. Top quality. Im looking forward to trying them on the 540's and the velours on the 250's's !

Ah, ok. So far, with the DT880 velour pads, the bass does not have the sheer richness and ability to plummet to the depths like the Ref1s with pleather pads. Nor does it have the the total point source coherence of those cans, from top to bottom. They do have superb vocal communication and a top end that is surprising me with it's detail and natural dynamic focus and speed! I'm still listening and writing at 12:30 am here! War Live and the cymbals and percussion are very crisp and so naturally metallic ... like the real thing is metallic. Larry Carlton and Robben Forde Live In Tokyo is also sounding pretty damn fine, a little tubbiness in the mid bass, while the guitars and percussion are again very dynamic and alive. The snapping and twanging of the funky bass playing sounds very cool despite the colouration .... which I'm slowly getting used to. And all this is still on the little Corda 2Move! Amazing really, says a lot about the quality of the 2Move! And that's with it's own onboard DAC too. The HD250s seem to be fairly easy to drive and not a difficult load at all, considering the Corda has nothing like the power output of the Magni 3 amp. I'm having a great time with them Looking forward to those new pads too. On to it in the morning.
Agreed about the soundstage, remarkable AND they have that very coherent overall soundfield (just like the Ref1s) that often eludes so many other headphones, with apparent little gaps in stage solidity. An excellent addition to the family so far ......... loving the vocals!

 

[jon parker]

Interesting... Usually to test the 'quality' of treble I go to albums like Innervsions by Stevie Wonder to see how the cymbals sound. If they sound full, rich and very 'brass like' and if the wooden-ness of the stick hitting them is apparent and you can hear the 'wood' of the stick then the headphone are top class!
Interestingly the 250 makes them sound a bit more metallic like than brass like yet that still seems quite authentic in their delivery
They certainly have a place in my listening schedules. I went from them to the 540's with 560 old velour pads and was met with a delightful warmer more relaxed sound. Like the 250s are a comfy leather chair but the 540 are like getting into bed
To me they are defiantly of the same family - like brother and sister and as such one 'should' really own both

 

[Malfunkt]

Awesome you guys are enjoying the 250.


Small bit of news for you.

Sennheiser has given the pro community a gift.

HD 300 . Based on the HD 250 Linear. Awesome!

I've started a thread here for 540 and 250 fans
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sen...ressions-thread-hd-250-linear-revival.877568/