[jlbrach]

lets put it this way, I know you and I have dramatically different musical interests but lets be serious people love the envy and 300b tubes and to refer to it as ****ing terrible is ridiculous..if you simply say you like the 33EE JPS better I am good with it...one thing it aint is terrible....I first heard the SR1a at canjam and dismissed it until I heard it in my home...I personally do not pass judgment on anything at canjam other than the look and feel of products for the most part...again I respect your opinion for sure and enjoy your comments but suggesting a product like the envy espeiclaly with updated tubes is horrible is kind of silly

 

[joseph69]

I don't care about midrange really, as I'm a V shape kinda guy. I thought the Envy sounded terrible off the Sus when I heard it at Can Jam.

~80% of the music is in the midrange--and I enjoy all different types of Jazz as well as '60's-'90's vocal music, so the midrange is important to me. This is also the first time I've ever read anything negative about the Susvara/Envy combo as well--but to each their own.

I can't see myself ever selling my WA33 EE JPS, but stranger things have been known to happen

I can't see myself selling my WA33 either--and don't have intentions on doing so because I id it once before and ~2 months later bought another one. I would have to find myself powering up the Envy much, much more than my WA33 to even consider selling it--because as mentioned--I do love my WA33 and enjoy it very much almost every night.

 

[Ciggavelli]

~80% of the music is in the midrange--and I enjoy all different types of Jazz as well as '60's-'90's vocal music, so the midrange is important to me. This is also the first time I've ever read anything negative about the Susvara/Envy combo as well--but to each their own.

I can't see myself selling my WA33 either--and don't have intentions on doing so because I id it once before and ~2 months later bought another one. I would have to find myself powering up the Envy much, much more than my WA33 to even consider selling it--because as mentioned--I do love my WA33 and enjoy it very much almost every night.

I'm an extreme person, so I like the extremes of music too (the absolute best resolution possible with the absolute best bass). I might be weird though. Mids don't matter to me much. My preferred genres are very V shaped though: metal and hip-hop, so that should be taken into consideration. I've been getting more into indie recently (the new Mannequin Pu$$y is fukcing amazing), where mids are more important.

 

[Ciggavelli]

lets put it this way, I know you and I have dramatically different musical interests but lets be serious people love the envy and 300b tubes and to refer to it as ****ing terrible is ridiculous..if you simply say you like the 33EE JPS better I am good with it...one thing it aint is terrible....I first heard the SR1a at canjam and dismissed it until I heard it in my home...I personally do not pass judgment on anything at canjam other than the look and feel of products for the most part...again I respect your opinion for sure and enjoy your comments but suggesting a product like the envy espeiclaly with updated tubes is horrible is kind of silly

Woah. I said I would be open to listening to it again and didn't dismiss it completely and admitted showroom condition problems. I'll give it another try, but I was just saying I didn't like what I heard at CanJam

 

[jlbrach]

in general at this level we are looking at nothing is terrible, just a different flavor that some like more than others subjectively

 

[joseph69]

in general at this level we are looking at nothing is terrible, just a different flavor that some like more than others subjectively

Exactly. This is what I'm doing--hearing which one I may prefer over the other--or both may have different enough flavors for me to enjoy owning bot.

 

[Pastwa]

I would agree, WA33 is a bit underrated recently. I listened to it with both 1266 and Susvaras, the sound was perfectly balanced from the bottom to top with a vast soundstage being very well organized, nothing was missing from the picture. With 1266 there was absolutely nothing wrong with the midrange (common complaint regarding 1266 which I can't agree with), on the contrary, it was very natural and honest presentation, which I prefer in the long run.

Envy will be more polite/relaxed in comparison, especially with the stock tubes, so maybe there is that controversy, especially if one doesn't like this approach to music, but this should be obvious within a few minutes of the audition (you love or hate it). The Elrogs improve notably the technicaqlities, making it a very decent amplifier to my ears, just with a distinctly different signature, but many people will greatly appreciate its sound.

Another, even more underrated amplifier (in my opinion) is Cayin HA300, with the right tubes, it is not worse than Envy and in fact I liked its soundstage more. It is however a warmer sounding amplifier, with a very 'gentle' touch to the notes, sublime. I wouldn't probably mind getting one for myself, it is just its footprint that doesn't appear to me and a few too many tubes to manage.

If my only headphone was something from Grado (used to own GS1000, loved them for classical and jazz music) my choice would go to Fulianty ST18, that should best the above amplifiers when it comes to blackness/silence of the background, music insight, openness/directness (the feel we can almost touch the artist), you basically can't go any further. On the other hand, it won't, even remotely, drive anything as demanding as let's say DCA Stealth, not to mention 1266 or Susvaras.

I don't think there is a single headphone amplifier that is best in everything and with all.

 

[Whazzzup]

we will see after hours how ta 2a3 shapes up versus kr 2a3 that's bloomed and quieted down nicely, but imo while wrapped up in its tubey airbags, wa33 reaches down nicely, its got good ss dynamics, ie speed and that ss edge but its mids to me are its secret sauce. so while kick drums can be felt on hp, the spacial imagery has a lot of mid sauce. imo but maybe im not interpreting nor describing correctly, but this imagery is what makes wa33 soundstage so enticing.. so if you like scooped out mids and wa33, it doesn't compute to me.... no diss just observations.

And finally, granted neophyte, haven't tried any alternatives, but they will have to rip this amp from my cold dead hands kinda thing.

 

[Ciggavelli]

we will see after hours how ta 2a3 shapes up versus kr 2a3 that's bloomed and quieted down nicely, but imo while wrapped up in its tubey airbags, wa33 reaches down nicely, its got good ss dynamics, ie speed and that ss edge but its mids to me are its secret sauce. so while kick drums can be felt on hp, the spacial imagery has a lot of mid sauce. imo but maybe im not interpreting nor describing correctly, but this imagery is what makes wa33 soundstage so enticing.. so if you like scooped out mids and wa33, it doesn't compute to me.... no diss just observations.

And finally, granted neophyte, haven't tried any alternatives, but they will have to rip this amp from my cold dead hands kinda thing.

I think the imagery and soundstage is what makes the WA33 so enticing too. I don't know if that is solely the result of the mids though, or maybe I like mids more than I thought?

I think for me, I just focus all my attention on the bass and treble when critically listening. Maybe subconsciously I'm critiquing to the mids too, or maybe the mids need to reach a certain level of quality too implicitly or I won't like it.

I am weird though, as I know most people focus in on the mids. It's just hard for me to evaluate mids properly I think without taking into consideration bass and treble. I need to do some more training

 

[Contrails]

I think the imagery and soundstage is what makes the WA33 so enticing too.

Oh yes Sir! couldn't agree more. And the layering is phenomenal. SS Amps struggle with this aspect.

My fav. part of this amp is that it has the perfect balance of technicalities and tube amp goodness.

 

[jlbrach]

I think the imagery and soundstage is what makes the WA33 so enticing too. I don't know if that is solely the result of the mids though, or maybe I like mids more than I thought?

I think for me, I just focus all my attention on the bass and treble when critically listening. Maybe subconsciously I'm critiquing to the mids too, or maybe the mids need to reach a certain level of quality too implicitly or I won't like it.

I am weird though, as I know most people focus in on the mids. It's just hard for me to evaluate mids properly I think without taking into consideration bass and treble. I need to do some more training

my good buddy @paradoxper who got me into tube amps and tubes in general and whose opinion I respect does not like Woo Audio amps in general...he prefers 300b amps...does that make him right or wrong...of course not...it is his educated opinion but only his opinion....one who prefers the WA33 in whatever version he chooses is as much right as anyone else....we also seem to have a lot of people comparing 20k amps with 8k amps etc...apples and oranges...truth is once we get past a certain point is comes down to preference there is no objective truth

 

[Ciggavelli]

my good buddy @paradoxper who got me into tube amps and tubes in general and whose opinion I respect does not like Woo Audio amps in general...he prefers 300b amps...does that make him right or wrong...of course not...it is his educated opinion but only his opinion....one who prefers the WA33 in whatever version he chooses is as much right as anyone else....we also seem to have a lot of people comparing 20k amps with 8k amps etc...apples and oranges...truth is once we get past a certain point is comes down to preference there is no objective truth

There is definitely no objective truth at the summit-fi level; I agree

I respect @paradoxper 's opinion, as we like the same kind of music (minus the hip-hop I guess). He's what made me buy the CFA3 and made me want to throw my old 300b 3ES Elite in front of it.

I personally think the 300B hype is a little over rated, but admitingly I've never heard the Elrogs. I tried to buy the Elrogs when I had my 3ES Elite, but they told me they had so much demand that they couldn't even put me on a waitlist . Then I sold off my 3ES, cuz I got out of stats.

I think @protoss is a taste-maker on here. He threw up the 300B thread and then the internet went nuts for them, along with @paradoxper 's Elrog recommendations. I think Elrog should be paying @paradoxper to be honest

 

[normie610]

There is definitely no objective truth at the summit-fi level; I agree

I respect @paradoxper 's opinion, as we like the same kind of music (minus the hip-hop I guess). He's what made me buy the CFA3 and made me want to throw my old 300b 3ES Elite in front of it.

I personally think the 300B hype is a little over rated, but admitingly I've never heard the Elrogs. I tried to buy the Elrogs when I had my 3ES Elite, but they told me they had so much demand that they couldn't even put me on a waitlist . Then I sold off my 3ES, cuz I got out of stats.

I think @protoss is a taste-maker on here. He threw up the 300B thread and then the internet went nuts for them, along with @paradoxper 's Elrog recommendations. I think Elrog should be paying @paradoxper to be honest

And I can't live without 300B. Even with Primavera, I still use my 300B preamp in front of it

 

[paradoxper]

There is definitely no objective truth at the summit-fi level; I agree

I respect @paradoxper 's opinion, as we like the same kind of music (minus the hip-hop I guess). He's what made me buy the CFA3 and made me want to throw my old 300b 3ES Elite in front of it.

I personally think the 300B hype is a little over rated, but admitingly I've never heard the Elrogs. I tried to buy the Elrogs when I had my 3ES Elite, but they told me they had so much demand that they couldn't even put me on a waitlist . Then I sold off my 3ES, cuz I got out of stats.

I think @protoss is a taste-maker on here. He threw up the 300B thread and then the internet went nuts for them, along with @paradoxper 's Elrog recommendations. I think Elrog should be paying @paradoxper to be honest

We're of the same cloth. You keep that hip-hop.

The Elrog difference is real and clear as a bell.

 

[wasupdog]

I don’t like onion (just taste, no allergy), and every time I order meal, I ask them to not include it. Unfortunately, most of the time they don’t care and give me half an onion anyway. The only way to make sure they pay attention is to say I am allergic and if I spot a tiny bit of onion, they will need to call me an ambulance. Works every time, and that’s why people lie, to get results they want, including audio companies.


Absolutely agree, I could not have said it better.