[VanHai]

Thanks- It is a bit of a mystery and unless one has some measurement equipment, I guess we can only speculate. There is a logical hypothesis that increased gain available on 5998 tubes would correlate with increased output wattage. Not sure if we have any EE's on this thread, but I can also pose the question on the 6as7g tube rolling thread. I don't think there's a 5998-specific thread on Head-Fi. I'm sure some Head-Fi member has the EE equipment or may know the answer.

Regarding headphones, yes I have the Abyss 1266 Phi. The WA22 drives them very nicely, but not optimally. I had a get together at my house with another Head-Fi member, who brought over his Tungsten and Wells Audio Milo solid state amp (10 W @46Ω) and that produced a thicker, bolder resonance and was noticeable in the sub-bass. Hence my interest in a nice solid state amp, but that's another story/research project. The WA22, with 6080 tubes installed at the time, drove the Tungsten very well, but again, not optimally. The owner and I agreed that if you have the WA22 and Tungsten, you'd be just fine and wouldn't miss much (maybe the last 5% of low end). At the last Head-Fi meet, I believe @VanHai came to a similar conclusion with the both the Tungsten and Susvara plugged into the WA22. He does run his 5998's usually.

I always run my WA22 with TS 5998s. At the local meet last Feb, the owner used Schiit Mjölnir 3 with Yggdrasil for the Tungsten DS. He and his friend plugged his DS Tungsten into WA22. Both were surprised how good it sounded and wanted to buy a tube amp. The low end also depends on your DAC. I run my WA22 with Merason Dac1, and this Dac gives a perfect bass to the amp.

 

[skhan007]

OK, for some A/B testing, I listened with my GEC 6080 and then swapped in the Tung Sol 5998. The latter have much more output, as evidenced by my need to turn the volume down on the WA22 by about 20%. I would normally listen with the Abyss 1266 with the volume at Noon, but now it's about 10 O'Clock. This and the bass hits harder. More punch. There is clearly more output power with 5998's. How many watts more, we don't know.

A great album to test bass punch and in-the-room dynamics was recommended on one of @Currawong 's videos, where he recommended Folk Singer (expanded edition) by Muddy Waters. The first two tracks really give you a sense of staging, imaging, separation, and bass punch. Recommended, even if you don't like the blues.

 

[elig63]

Hi guys !
Anyone know this seller? Are these original tubes? What is the difference between the first and second?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3053971172...UUzJVWm/Tf8wVTkhp+bcanZcS/Nh|tkp:BFBMkoCl3tlj

https://www.ebay.com/itm/3054878740...cx70RCox2w9HkGWjylD+IizPeWdG|tkp:BFBMlICl3tlj

 

[CAJames]

OK, for some A/B testing, I listened with my GEC 6080 and then swapped in the Tung Sol 5998. The latter have much more output, as evidenced by my need to turn the volume down on the WA22 by about 20%. I would normally listen with the Abyss 1266 with the volume at Noon, but now it's about 10 O'Clock. This and the bass hits harder. More punch. There is clearly more output power with 5998's. How many watts more, we don't know.

The thing is there is a difference between gain: how fast the voltage aka volume increases and power: how much current the amp can source into the load at particular voltage. So, just because the amp plays louder for a given volume setting doesn't necessarily mean it has a higher power output in watts, just more gain in volts. It might also have higher power output but you'd need e.g. an oscilloscope and sine wave generator to know how much power you can output before clipping.

 

[skhan007]

The thing is there is a difference between gain: how fast the voltage aka volume increases and power: how much current the amp can source into the load at particular voltage. So, just because the amp plays louder for a given volume setting doesn't necessarily mean it has a higher power output in watts, just more gain in volts. It might also have higher power output but you'd need e.g. an oscilloscope and sine wave generator to know how much power you can output before clipping.

Makes sense and I'd love to know the answer, via the measurement equipment you've mentioned. Curious why Woo Audio does not post these kinds of specs.

 

[Promee]

Thanks- It is a bit of a mystery and unless one has some measurement equipment, I guess we can only speculate. There is a logical hypothesis that increased gain available on 5998 tubes would correlate with increased output wattage. Not sure if we have any EE's on this thread, but I can also pose the question on the 6as7g tube rolling thread. I don't think there's a 5998-specific thread on Head-Fi. I'm sure some Head-Fi member has the EE equipment or may know the answer.

Regarding headphones, yes I have the Abyss 1266 Phi. The WA22 drives them very nicely, but not optimally. I had a get together at my house with another Head-Fi member, who brought over his Tungsten and Wells Audio Milo solid state amp (10 W @46Ω) and that produced a thicker, bolder resonance and was noticeable in the sub-bass. Hence my interest in a nice solid state amp, but that's another story/research project. The WA22, with 6080 tubes installed at the time, drove the Tungsten very well, but again, not optimally. The owner and I agreed that if you have the WA22 and Tungsten, you'd be just fine and wouldn't miss much (maybe the last 5% of low end). At the last Head-Fi meet, I believe @VanHai came to a similar conclusion with the both the Tungsten and Susvara plugged into the WA22. He does run his 5998's usually.

I’ll bet the 5998 would really help there at the margins… I think it would be pretty awesome to be able to rock tubes on the Tungsten, but I know it will drive me crazy if I think it’s clipping or not getting all the way there on transients… Hopefully the 5998 will give a significant bump! I saw somewhere, either Director’s Garage, or maybe Zeos, can’t recall, that Ryan from Modhouse was recommending the WA5 as reference amp for the Tungsten. It’s a different beast, but maybe we could also get some general idea of how the power capabilities of that amp stack up with the WA22.

I also haven’t looked into it at all, but if we feel power is lacking even with the 5998, it might be worth looking at the other driver tube options for the WA22 to see if any could provide more gain than 6SN7. I have no reason to believe that this would be the case, and I would hate to pull my favorite tubes out of the chain, but it is a thought that could be worth looking into.

I have limited experience w/ solid state amps, but I have been really loving the Violectric V222 since pairing it with the Qutest DAC (though I’m guessing I’ll need to run a balanced DAC to get enough oomph for the Tungsten once it gets here). People say it sounds tubey. I don’t know about that, but it is very pleasant, and with the right pairing, it’s been a real joy - I’ve been surprised how often I listen to it over the tubes, not a majority of the time, but I would say 30% of the time. I’ve also had an adventure with messing with the op amps in it… I have been told that it is adequate for the Tungsten as well. Of course Violectric also make more powerful models for more $$, like the limited edition V281 reissue, which people seem very excited for. It has the ability to apply up to 18 dB of gain prior to amplification and can put 5.6 W into 100 Ohm and 23.7 V at 100 Ohm as well, increasing as it goes up to over 40 V at 600 Ohm! I’m sure there are about a zillion good options out there. That Milo sounds like an absolute beast with that amount of power…

 

[Promee]

Hi guys !
Anyone know this seller? Are these original tubes? What is the difference between the first and second?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/305397117215?itmmeta=01HV6Y980444V4K5Z8XTCE20HE&hash=item471b16311f:g:bksAAOSwKEBmC6Kd&amdata=enc:AQAJAAAA4LF6U5YmvIXiXCKdeIyPeHTH88XsXJqhrbmRKkS7NdaHt5XZ3HTA/aQPycSk+jbUhXNW9+LBeytGmH2tF2eXfeGeRHFKVPPvDkxOtq6dN19Dnazwq8hjn014fKmafNZcB+dYRFIDYpPflpdTXZVZbVO6bnu18L39EHxx3E0KcGdUQsmIUXFpZFtCyIRXzTogV5XsaeE0DgHVUBu/n1A4d+i1BeQIYF/5cfTL6WSTdc0aIQA75hgWRFb/7wJfua9agAwEnWorZR/s0Rs+UUzJVWm/Tf8wVTkhp+bcanZcS/Nh|tkp:BFBMkoCl3tlj

https://www.ebay.com/itm/305487874011?itmmeta=01HV6Y9804RM2CY2WP52GGCTXV&hash=item47207f07db:g:vRsAAOSwQEtmC7Ss&amdata=enc:AQAJAAAA4Nr1fUsrWuxERQ4SwrQPcCn19Xqym0AZV1PJo9X9AuM479Hs5fadQ/mv4aztUUrXGLHc4YQSEEwk9fU9cwR3cRNAKRVPUTHMg7BKYa5/Ptin4L+/1BvmMY50jloUHb6BNqd0ibfLzXplknRW/rIqNocTvYDIWqZgn224sXo9UdVjl9YOYdS1s5xcdChFiiYPlvxWcZ+AAPqJ5SRM0+iBmXr9ioH0ii4Tl1VkhktN58rlFvMqBgwankJ8i0OaXLKz4xF+x/5LZZCxuMsocx70RCox2w9HkGWjylD+IizPeWdG|tkp:BFBMlICl3tlj

I don’t know the seller, but at first glance, that seems really pricey for 6AS7G unless there is something really special about that particular vintage, so hopefully someone else can weigh in. I could be totally off base on that, but I am fairly sure I got my Chatham (military version of Tung Sol) 5998 matched pair for about $100 less than that just a couple months ago, so it might be good to keep looking, because that seems like 5998 money. I know Brent Jesse was saying a few weeks ago that he had NOS 5998 for I think $600 / pair, and I think almost anyone on here would vouch for him, so it might be worth checking with him. His website doesn’t really update much, particularly on these high demand tubes, so it might be worth just emailing him and seeing what he’s got in stock before rolling the dice here at this price. Then again, I have also tempted the fates quite a few times on EBay, and I’ve generally had more good experiences than bad with tubes bought on there…

 

[Melting735]

I just picked up a wa22 gen1 at a decent price. Sweet sounded amp that can drive all my headphones.

I have a couple of unsold pairs of NOS 6sn7s left from my precious collections. The power tubes and rectifier came with the amp were GE 6080 5 stars and psvane 5u4.

May I get some recommendations for budget power and rectifier tubes? Old stock or new production?

 

[CAJames]

...May I get some recommendations for budget power and rectifier tubes? Old stock or new production?

My picks would be GEC A2293s with adapters for the 6080s and a Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier. But JMO/FWIW/YMMV and all that.

 

[vonBaron]

I will soon join to WA22 fanclub due to selling my Niimbus.

 

[vonBaron]

With tubes have biggest inpact on sound?

 

[Melting735]

My picks would be GEC A2293s with adapters for the 6080s and a Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier. But JMO/FWIW/YMMV and all that.

I just picked up a GEC 5U4G from a local seller. It is not as warm as Psvane 5U4G so sometimes the high end can give a bit fatigue, but the details and soudstage improved. I will probably still go with Psvane for long sessions. I am using 1952 Bad Boys and GE6080 as driver and power tubes. Headphone is mainly HD650 and Utopia.

GEC A2293s with adapters for the 6080s and a Brimar 5Z4GY rectifier look much more budget friendly. I will give them a try.

 

[Melting735]

I will soon join to WA22 fanclub due to selling my Niimbus.

Wow, I can't believe that you are selling Niimbus. What did you go for solid state?
I am having both Niimbus and WA22 now. I feel they are quite complimentary, especially I can let Niimbus feed WA22 and use Niimbus's balance control.

 

[skhan007]

With tubes have biggest inpact on sound?

For power tubes, NOS GEC 6080 have the most natural balanced tone, with great clarity in the midrange. For overall tubeyness, Tung Sol 5998 have great low-end extension and very detailed highs. Others can share their opinions, but these are my recommendations.

 

[Melting735]

For power tubes, NOS GEC 6080 have the most natural balanced tone, with great clarity in the midrange. For overall tubeyness, Tung Sol 5998 have great low-end extension and very detailed highs. Others can share their opinions, but these are my recommendations.

Good pairs of those two may now cost over $500. Are there substitutes getting close to the performance but cost under $250? I am looking into Tungsol/chatham 6AS7G, 7236, Svetlana 6H13C, maybe Mullard 6080 etc. Do they work well with WA22? I had these with Euforia before. I liked Chatham 6AS7G, but not as good as 5998/421a when I had them.

I am also looking at GEC A2293 that CAJames recommended. The challenge part is to find a matched quad.