[003]

How is a NOS Sylvania 7236 compared to the more popular but less plentiful Tung-Sol and Cetron variants?

 

[Skylab]

I thought the Tung-Sol sounded better than the Sylvania when I had a pair of each. Never heard (or even seen) the Cetron.

 

[003]

The Cetron is just a rebadged Tung-Sol. Anyway, I just ordered a black WA3+ and a NOS Sylvania 7236, as the Tung-Sol and Cetron variants are too damn hard to find and too expensive. The Sylvania was $46.90 shipped from TubeDepot, and it was their last 7236 of any brand, wouldn't you know. But the Sylvania was much better than the stock tube, I assume?

You refer to "a pair of each". I am talking about the single power tube, not the pair of input tubes. You are also referring to the power tube I assume?

 

[KZEE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, for the time being the Tung-Sol 5998 has become my favored power tube over the 7236.

I told you so!

 

[Skylab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Cetron is just a rebadged Tung-Sol. Anyway, I just ordered a black WA3+ and a NOS Sylvania 7236, as the Tung-Sol and Cetron variants are too damn hard to find and too expensive. The Sylvania was $46.90 shipped from TubeDepot, and it was their last 7236 of any brand, wouldn't you know. But the Sylvania was much better than the stock tube, I assume? You refer to "a pair of each". I am talking about the single power tube, not the pair of input tubes. You are also referring to the power tube I assume?

Nah, I simply bought them in pairs, so I could use them in other amps as well (and I no longer have my Woo3).

The Sylvania 7236 is a fine, fine sounding tube. I still prefer the 5998, but you will like the 7236 I'm sure.

 

[Golden Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...But the Sylvania was much better than the stock tube, I assume?

The stock tubes are not BAD...they are just readily available late production US made tubes. The 7236 (although I'm speaking in general terms, as I have not heard the Sylvania version) is a nice step up in SQ - at least in the bass department. It's a tube that presents strong bass, but not so much in terms of muddy, noisy bass, it just hits harder and deeper. I found the stock tubeset not bad at all, and it wasn't until I went all NOS-crazy that it began to pale in comparison. The stock 6AS7 and 6922 set is decently "tubey", but sounds a bit congested and less dynamic to me than any of the "good" tubes I'm using now. The other 6080's I picked up were just for "hmmm...I wonder what these sound like?" experimentation, and are not really recommended for serious audiophilia For that, 7236 and 5998 all the way.

 

[Golden Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KZEE /img/forum/go_quote.gif I told you so!

LOL...yup! Extremely articulate in comparison to the 7236. I like the heft and clean sound of the 7236, and it's an excellent tube in all respects, but the 5998 is less clinical sounding and so musical...and so sexy! Lol

 

[003]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif The stock tubes are not BAD...they are just readily available late production US made tubes. The 7236 (although I'm speaking in general terms, as I have not heard the Sylvania version) is a nice step up in SQ - at least in the bass department. It's a tube that presents strong bass, but not so much in terms of muddy, noisy bass, it just hits harder and deeper. I found the stock tubeset not bad at all, and it wasn't until I went all NOS-crazy that it began to pale in comparison. The stock 6AS7 and 6922 set is decently "tubey", but sounds a bit congested and less dynamic to me than any of the "good" tubes I'm using now. The other 6080's I picked up were just for "hmmm...I wonder what these sound like?" experimentation, and are not really recommended for serious audiophilia For that, 7236 and 5998 all the way.

Cool... so did you ever try the WA3+ with a 7236 and the stock input tubes? That's pretty much what I'll be using for my HD650. If I ever were to get new (NOS) input tubes, what would you recommend? I do NOT want the sound to be in any way "solid statish", that is, more pronounced highs and upper midrange. I like the smooth sound of the HD650 and use it with all my music, even rock and metal. It sounds fantastic, a huge relief from the likes of Grado and such.

 

[glitch39]

003 - from your description, you may like 5998 with the bugle boy 6dj8's

 

[Gradofan2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif The stock tubes are not BAD...they are just readily available late production US made tubes. The 7236 (although I'm speaking in general terms, as I have not heard the Sylvania version) is a nice step up in SQ - at least in the bass department. It's a tube that presents strong bass, but not so much in terms of muddy, noisy bass, it just hits harder and deeper. I found the stock tubeset not bad at all, and it wasn't until I went all NOS-crazy that it began to pale in comparison. The stock 6AS7 and 6922 set is decently "tubey", but sounds a bit congested and less dynamic to me than any of the "good" tubes I'm using now. The other 6080's I picked up were just for "hmmm...I wonder what these sound like?" experimentation, and are not really recommended for serious audiophilia For that, 7236 and 5998 all the way.

Though... you might try the Raytheon, Chatham and Cetron 6080s - they seem to sound a lot like the Cetron 7236 I had with my WA 3. They all seem to have a lot of the Tung Sol type sound - very dynamic, with lots of PRAT and impact.

 

[003]

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitch39 /img/forum/go_quote.gif 003 - from your description, you may like 5998 with the bugle boy 6dj8's

Hmm... that is disappointing, as I already got the 7236... How much would the 5998 and bugle boy 6dj8s run me?

Now, I don't want the sound to be slow or congested or heavily laid back (the veil), I just want the golden honey smoothness of the HD650 to be emphasized.

 

[Golden Monkey]

Quote:

"Cool... so did you ever try the WA3+ with a 7236 and the stock input tubes? That's pretty much what I'll be using for my HD650. If I ever were to get new (NOS) input tubes, what would you recommend? I do NOT want the sound to be in any way "solid statish", that is, more pronounced highs and upper midrange. I like the smooth sound of the HD650 and use it with all my music, even rock and metal. It sounds fantastic, a huge relief from the likes of Grado and such."

- 7236 with Philips 6922 was decent, yes. I'm not a big fan of the late model 6922s, but they are a nice quiet tube. I think you'll find this combo to be the most "solid stateish" unfortunately, but let me emphasize that it's not really like a solid state amp sound at all (if that makes sense). You'll have smooth and clean top end (even more so if you pick up some NOS Siemens or Telefunken tubes for your preamp tube choices), but it's in no way TOO bright, sibilant, harsh, or digital sounding. I'll get to my recommendations for you in a few moments..see below.

Quote:

"003 - from your description, you may like 5998 with the bugle boy 6dj8's"/"Hmm... that is disappointing, as I already got the 7236... How much would the 5998 and bugle boy 6dj8s run me?"

- I actually find this combo (5988 and Amperex 6DJ8) to be much too smooth, liquid, and relaxed for anything other than acoustic or vocals. Voices sound absolutely amazing and nuanced. That's something the Bugle Boys do SO well, and coupled with the 5988, is a glorious, chocolate covered, warm and cozy sound that's very intimate, but doesn't quite work for rock or electronic types of music. Vox, acoustic, strings, smooth jazz, yes...

Quote:

"Now, I don't want the sound to be slow or congested or heavily laid back (the veil), I just want the golden honey smoothness of the HD650 to be emphasized."

- Here's the thing though...the HD650 on a proper tube amp like the Woo...well, the veil myth is shattered once and for all. You will be positively AMAZED at what you are hearing. I'm a big fan of the Senns, and they were my faves before I got this amp, but let me tell you once I heard them on this amp, I immediately sold my MKV and other headphones, and couldn't be happier with the decision. Properly driven, they retain the things you know and love about the "Senn Sound" - those glorious mids, warmth, soundstage, dynamics, details despite good bass, etc. BUT you'll also find they lose that rolled off quality to the top end, they brighten up at the top as well, without any stridency or harshness, they are "faster", they become much more up front (not Grado-level, but much more than they are given credit for). That veil is nothing more than poor amplification and/or mismatching. I couldn't believe it... Anyway, that said, see what you think with the stock 6922s and 7236 combo (the 7236 is going to give you more slamming bass than the stock power tube), and you can go two ways with the preamp tubes:

- If you want smoother, warmer, lusher, liquidy sound, I'd recommend the Amperex 6DJ8s, but look for vintage 1950's to mid 1960's versions (D getters w dimple disks, or A frame getters). You can expect to pay a premium for these tubes, but they are WELL worth it. They are very "boutique" high-demand tubes, and you can expect to pay anywhere from $100-$300 a pair, depending on quality and source. Look for Holland made (Heerlen factory) over US made, although there is by no means anything wrong with the US ones, and they go for considerably less. Also USA Amperex ones arer JAN spec for the most part as they opened the factory here for the US military contract. 6922 is a premium 6DJ8 with gold pins and tighter tolerance, but they supposedly don't have quite the musicality of the Dutch 6DJ8s. Anyway, Amperex are great...well balanced, but leaning towards warm and smooth and musical with great tonality. Also falling in this bracket are Mullard or Brimar...but I don't have any first hand experience with them, so YMMV.

- If you want a more neutral and detailed tube with amazing airiness at the top end and insanely detailed and large soundstage, I would go German here...Siemens and Telefunken all the way, baby! Very neutral, like I said, but not dry or clinical, just even-keeled and accurate in their presentation. Not as colored of a sound as the Amperex, and great for rock, electronica, live music, etc. I LOVE my 7308 and 6922 Siemens - they are a great balance between what I really liked about the solid state amp sound - speed, clarity, separation (instrument and soundstage), detail, clean and clear top end, etc, and the great tube sound. That's not to say that they SOUND solid state, it's just that neutrality, airiness, and imaging are their strong suits.

All that said, I think you'd be floored by the HD650/6DJ8 Amperex/7236 sound overall. What you describe about liking in the HD650 is exactly what the Amperex 6DJ8 does so bloody well.

Quote:

"Though... you might try the Raytheon, Chatham and Cetron 6080s - they seem to sound a lot like the Cetron 7236 I had with my WA 3. They all seem to have a lot of the Tung Sol type sound - very dynamic, with lots of PRAT and impact."

- All the Chathams I've come across are just rebranded Tung-Sols anyway. I'll agree that the 6080s I have (one JAN Chatham, one RCA) do sound a lot like the 7236 in dynamics, but they are not quite up to snuff in terms of PRAT and impact. They have a bit of a "slower" sound to them, and my god, they are noisy tubes...very microphonic for a driver tube, and take forever to warm up and settle down. That said though, once they do, they are just fine, and can be found for very low prices due to lack of demand. I picked both of the 6080s I have on Ebay for a combined $20 on winning auctions...NOS, original boxes (both JAN, so nothing exciting).

 

[003]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif All that said, I think you'd be floored by the HD650/6DJ8 Amperex/7236 sound overall. What you describe about liking in the HD650 is exactly what the Amperex 6DJ8 does so bloody well.

Cool... well I already have the Sylvania 7236 on route, and I have a good source for a matched pair of NOS Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle boy D-getters, 1950s Holland made.

 

[Skylab]

The Amperex 6DJ8's are wonderful. My favorite "bargain" 6DJ8 is the JAN Sylvania - much better than the JAN Phillips 6922, and only $15 per tube. I also like the Telefunkens, but they and the Amperex are pricey.

 

[Golden Monkey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Cool... well I already have the Sylvania 7236 on route, and I have a good source for a matched pair of NOS Amperex 6DJ8 Bugle boy D-getters, 1950s Holland made.

Hmmm...let me know if you have a line on more than one pair...I'd like to get a pair of D getter Amps...