[Anaxilus]

I don't care about backup as yes it's all getting sucked onto a cloud somewhere.  I have 6.5 btw and myPhone just got cutoff this month for us old schoolers.
 
Meh, Sony's proprietary memory stick can be read by everyone.  An open standard SD Card formatted by WP7 can't.  Tomatos/Tomatoes in a half full or half empty glass.  
 
When people and their friends and co-workers each have phones, tablets, laptops and PCs people need versatility to share data.  MS just cut themselves off at the kneecaps by looking at the device as just that device.  People want integration amongst their devices not segregation.  
 
Your points about CS are completely valid but that's a benefit to MS not really the consumer.  I'm sure they've got tons of calls already from customers wondering why their cards are not compatible or why all their data got erased.  
 
Even a $25 Sansa Clip+ comes w/ 2GB of integrated storage.  I can't imagine WP7 needing even that much and it driving up the cost of each unit beyond the threshold consumers would purchase.  But yes your right, MS is controlling the device via software and hardware in a way that limits the freedom of the end user.  One reason I said MS is following the 'Apple model'.  The benefit is a slick, smooth UI and experience for the average consumer who can't even implement more than 20-30% of their device's capabilities.  The rest of us want more options, versatility and user control.  That's why I will never use WP7 (w/o changes).
 
If MS wants to be Apple why wouldn't I just buy an iDevice?  Apple has greater marketshare, penetration and a massive app base.  
 
We'll see what happens w/ WP8 and Windows 8 since that is where this is all leading for MS.  I'm already worried I'll be jumping the Windows ship.  I really think MS is putting itself in a position where people will have to pick the lesser of two evils.  IMO they are playing right into Apple's hands.
All I got for ya and MS atm.  

 

[Audio-Omega]

 
It has Word, Excel and OneNote (just like notepad).  

 
Quote:

My phone doesn't come with notepad.  

 

 

[EddieE]

Quote:

If MS wants to be Apple why wouldn't I just buy an iDevice?  Apple has greater marketshare, penetration and a massive app base.  
 

 
For me a phone is a phone, it's not the centre of my life and I certainly will never pay for a handset. Never have and never will.
 
There is no contract I can go on to get a free iPhone I know of, they are all expensive contracts and then you pay on top. 
 
There is no way anything the iphone does makes it worth paying for when you can get a free android or WP7 on a contract.
 
 
Speaking personally, I like the UI of the WP7 more than I like iphone or android. It does everything I need it to and I like the live tiles, I like the integration of everything and it suits me. 
 
Even if iPhones were free I would still go with the phone I have.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Yep, I think Microsoft is trying to build their own walled garden like Apple. I can't see it working because they're starting too late.

They need to leverage Office across all platforms at a fair cost. I'd pay $20 or $30 for an Office app on my iPhone and iPad. I bet millions of others would, too. It'd probably generate a few billion every year. Since there are so many Office docs, it would lock in consumers and revenue forever. It would be great insurance against the future, too. Five years ago not many expected mobile to be this big. Who knows what we'll be using in 2016? But we'll still be using files and spreadsheets, so Microsoft needs to make sure they are the standard.

 

[EddieE]

Quote:

Yep, I think Microsoft is trying to build their own walled garden like Apple. I can't see it working because they're starting too late.

They need to leverage Office across all platforms at a fair cost. I'd pay $20 or $30 for an Office app on my iPhone and iPad. I bet millions of others would, too. It'd probably generate a few billion every year. Since there are so many Office docs, it would lock in consumers and revenue forever. It would be great insurance against the future, too. Five years ago not many expected mobile to be this big. Who knows what we'll be using in 2016? But we'll still be using files and spreadsheets, so Microsoft needs to make sure they are the standard.

 
 
Why should they? The mobile phone market it just too lucrative for them to give up on and they know that all it takes is persistence to win market share. They have the cash, so why not? 
 
Same with video games - when they turned up with the Xbox they were way too late to the party and really didn't offer anything the Playstation didn't already do. The first system did OK in the US and no one anywhere else cared. But they didn't care either, they were willing to keep throwing away money to stay long enough to start to build some recognition. With their next generation, the 360, they sold the console at a loss at first to make it seem more impressive and in fact won a decent market share in Europe this time too, although Japan still aren't bothered. But they aren't giving up there either and despite the news that Japanese retailers are phasing out the 360 they have just created a new senior position for someone to oversee their Japanese strategy.
 
Today Microsoft are a major player in video games outside of Japan but they poured a load of money down the drain to get there. Their stockholders don't care as they still turn in huge profits from their other activities and everyone knows this is a market worth persevering to get a share of.
 
You could say they turned up too late but three years ago no one was competing with Apple. It was a fashion fad - every little trendy and their mum and even the kids had iPhones - you were looked at like an alien if you didn't. Today that lustre is fading and it's slightly more of a passe thing fashion wise to have one. I see more Android handsets these days than iPhones and here at least the kids love Blackberrys - that seems to be their new fad. It's a much more open market than it was then.
 
To give up now and say "oh OK we'll just make apps for our biggest competitors phones instead"? That would be some seriously limp wristed corporate strategy...

 

[Uncle Erik]

EddieE, I have two words for you: Zune, Bing.

Persistence got the Zune discontinued. Bing hasn't gone anywhere, either.

WP7 is Zune Part II. A good product that everyone ignored.

Microsoft's problem is that Office is the only real product they have left. Windows might have marketshare on the desktop, but that's so 20th century. Everyone has an Android or iOS device today. Soon, very soon, people will want to exchange their documents easily over all the devices they have and between devices their friends and business associates have. 99% of their friends and business associates will have Android or iOS devices.

Whoever gets document sharing right over all the platforms will be the winner.

That could be Microsoft. They could extract money from, well, everyone for using Office on any device. Butif Microsoft wants to get hung up on a 20th century business model and trying to be Apple+4yearstoolate, someone else is going to eat their lunch. You have to get text and spreadsheets across all popular devices. Do that and there's decades of lock-in. Microsoft would generate big revenues from it, too. Why put pride ahead of money?

 

[DougofTheAbaci]

The problem is what it takes to get a major company to start using a new piece of software. It's the reason you still get idiots using IE6. What? I've earned the right to call IE6 users idiots, believe me.
 
In order to roll out new software in a large organization you have to test everything about it. You have to prove 100% that there will be no change that wasn't completely intended. You have to prove that it will function exactly as expected in all circumstances. You have to verify everything. Check and double-check. It takes weeks, months on the bigger stuff. And then there's roll-out. It's not as simple as saying, "Install this software on your station." You have to have the IT staff do it because people are idiots. Just because someone uses a computer doesn't mean they know how to use a computer. I know that sounds silly, but it's true. I once was asked by someone how to RENAME A FILE ON THE DESKTOP! I hated being tech support...
 
That's one of the things both loved and loathed about the cloud for enterprise. Everyone can immediately have the latest and greatest version. However, in the case of something like Google Docs, the company has absolutely no control over the software. There could be a new change tomorrow and you might not even know about it until it's happened. And you can't take time to properly test it as the only way to do that would be to tell everyone not to use it.
 
It's one of the biggest problems I face in my job. Analog thinking in a digital space. "We've always done it thusly and we see now reason to change now."
 
On a side note, I'm not sure how what Apple is doing is so 20th century that Microsoft (and more recently, to a lesser extent, Google) is trying to replicate. The curated experience is found in a lot of places and there are some great benefits to it. Sure, it doesn't really benefit a tech-savvy crowd but no matter how we kid ourselves that's still a very, very small portion of the public. It's hard at times for me to remember that my circle of friends is not an accurate cross-section of average people's tech literacy. Techy people run in techy crowds.
 
With a curated experience, you don't have to worry if a program is safe, whether it will negatively effect your system by making it unstable, whether it contains anything truly objectionable... You just don't have to worry about it. You can grab anything from a very long list that catches your fancy and never have to worry because it's been reviewed and approved by someone who knows what they're doing. It's reassuring and at the end of the day you have a high quality experience.
 
You don't get that on Android. Different companies customize it to fit their own needs, changing the UI to what they think is best (rightly or wrongly) which causes compatibility issues with different apps... Which can come from anywhere and just like apps today if you're not careful can do some nasty things to your system. I know Android likes to throw around Flash and say how they have it and iOS doesn't but the truth of the matter is Flash sucks on mobile. On an iOS device the most commonly visited sites where you might feel the pain have iOS-alternatives ready to go so you don't feel as though you're missing out. The user's experience isn't negatively effected by laggy, unresponsive code. Android users, however, can't say the same thing.

 

[EddieE]

Uncle Eric,
It's a bit of a chicken and an egg - would they have given up on Zune if it wasn't for WP7 absorbing it? I don't see that they've given up on music players, they've just decided that more people are using their phones as players so to consolidate them. 
 
Bing - you're right it's going nowhere. Why would anyone change their search engine from Google when it brings the best results and has the best services? It was the wrong fight for them to pick.
 
A search engine isn't like a product you buy every few years and have a point where you make a decision to use it or not. Your search engine isn't hardware, its not going to eventually break or look outdated forcing the question - do I buy their new model of try something different?
 
It's comparing apples and oranges.
 
ETA - And that's the point - everyone mightb have an android or apple today (actually in this country lots have blackberry too) but a few years back it was all iphone. The mobile phone market moves fast because people replace their handsets periodically and they always will. That's why the market is never closed to something new. 
 
 
Quote:

EddieE, I have two words for you: Zune, Bing.

Persistence got the Zune discontinued. Bing hasn't gone anywhere, either.

WP7 is Zune Part II. A good product that everyone ignored.

Microsoft's problem is that Office is the only real product they have left. Windows might have marketshare on the desktop, but that's so 20th century. Everyone has an Android or iOS device today. Soon, very soon, people will want to exchange their documents easily over all the devices they have and between devices their friends and business associates have. 99% of their friends and business associates will have Android or iOS devices.

Whoever gets document sharing right over all the platforms will be the winner.

That could be Microsoft. They could extract money from, well, everyone for using Office on any device. Butif Microsoft wants to get hung up on a 20th century business model and trying to be Apple+4yearstoolate, someone else is going to eat their lunch. You have to get text and spreadsheets across all popular devices. Do that and there's decades of lock-in. Microsoft would generate big revenues from it, too. Why put pride ahead of money?
 

 

 

[elfary]

I've been testing an HD7 for a few days and i must say that WP7 really surprised me for good. I find it to be a really brilliant OS with a sexy UI.
 
Now if only Nokia/Microsoft could find the way to bring some rerious aftermarket to the table (Speaker docks, car stereos made for WP7) i think they could make a dent to the almost untouchable ecosystem that Apple has managed to build out of Jobs imagination.

 

[nikp]

Windows Phone 7 wowed me in terms of appearance and accessibility and it's still new so I would give it time to grow.

 

[nanaholic]

Uncle Erik by your reasoning then WP7 will win when the Mango update rolls out which maybe as soon as next month, having played with my friend's Samsung Focus with dev build Mango the Office Hub integration with Sky Drive, Office 365, WP7 versions of Excel, PowerPoint, Word and Onenote are completely seamless and works right out of the box - no stupid app downloading like Android or iOS or signing up for new services, oh and document editing is now enabled on the phone.  HOWEVER, I really doubt that this would be what swings WP7 for the general user, the general consumer aren't looking for Office integration IMO, however the Facebook and Twitter integration might swing them.  But in the end as much as I'm impressed with WP7 it won't win if it doesn't have some sexy hardware to back it up, which the current offerings are just plain lame, and here is where Nokia fits in the picture.
 
As an ex-iOS user and current Android user I think WP7 deserves some serious market share, I'm going to jump ship once Nokia release a quality Mango WP7 phone. 

 

[Anaxilus]

If Nokia can have USB OTG enabled on WP7 supporting an external DAC I'm in.  I'll even have a dedicated sdcard library for it.  Supposedly Android 3.1 will be able to.
 
 

 

[purrin]

Quote:

Uncle Erik by your reasoning then WP7 will win when the Mango update rolls out which maybe as soon as next month, having played with my friend's Samsung Focus with dev build Mango the Office Hub integration with Sky Drive, Office 365, WP7 versions of Excel, PowerPoint, Word and Onenote are completely seamless and works right out of the box - no stupid app downloading like Android or iOS or signing up for new services, oh and document editing is now enabled on the phone.  HOWEVER, I really doubt that this would be what swings WP7 for the general user, the general consumer aren't looking for Office integration IMO, however the Facebook and Twitter integration might swing them.  But in the end as much as I'm impressed with WP7 it won't win if it doesn't have some sexy hardware to back it up, which the current offerings are just plain lame, and here is where Nokia fits in the picture.
 
As an ex-iOS user and current Android user I think WP7 deserves some serious market share, I'm going to jump ship once Nokia release a quality Mango WP7 phone. 

 
Nice to hear the Office stuff works. I am in desperate need of a phone that can pull up Office stuff seamlessly. How was the WP7 UI overall? Any wierd glitches like in Android - I really liked how easy it was to do stuff on the iPhone. The slight annoyances over time I've had on Android are getting to me.
 
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Nice to hear the Office stuff works. I am in desperate need of a phone that can pull up Office stuff seamlessly. How was the WP7 UI overall? Any wierd glitches like in Android - I really liked how easy it was to do stuff on the iPhone. The slight annoyances over time I've had on Android are getting to me.

Nah, the UI is really slick and many many folks prefer it to iOS.  The UI and experience is the strongest point of WP7.  I know you wanted a strong camera too so a Nokia WP7 would be just the thing for ya.  
 

 

[DougofTheAbaci]

I wouldn't say many, many. I'd say some people.
 
When I was playing around with one for the first time I found it took some getting used to as I was familiar with iOS where things are just so **** obvious. It took a few moments to figure out what to do but once I had it wasn't that big of a problem. I got the feeling that once I was comfortable with it that it would be very easy to utilize. Though, in my professional opinion the difference between a good UI and a great UI is a good UI is very easy to use once you're used to it and a great UI doesn't have that learning curve.