Will you order canned food in a restaurant?
Sep 2, 2009 at 5:54 AM Post #61 of 75
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Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Big "if". I'm unaware of any method of producing foie gras that falls under your definition of humane. If there is one, do let me know, though.


there are several methods of fois gras production which dont feature force feeding. Although the yield is not as large as the force feeding method, which btw, has been proven to be harmful to the animals welfare.

Quote:

Personally, I'm not inclined to place the greatest desire of a goose above the smallest desire of myself. You may well find that detestable, but so be it. As humans, our wills and desires are superior in every way to those of animals. I only care about animal kindness insofar as it brings me pleasure.


There has also been research done to link animal cruelty, which is what you are stating clearly and unequivocally that you are ok with, to socio- and psyco-paths.

thankfully, the state of California doesn't agree with you, for one, from 2012 the sale and production of fois gras will become illegal there.
 
Sep 2, 2009 at 2:07 PM Post #62 of 75
Quote:

Originally Posted by dazzer1975 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
there are several methods of fois gras production which dont feature force feeding. Although the yield is not as large as the force feeding method, which btw, has been proven to be harmful to the animals welfare.


I've no doubt that it's harmful to the animals welfare. I also imagine that, considering where I've enjoyed Foie Gras, I've had some of it produced without the use of force feeding. I'd be curious to know if one could taste the difference. Not an experiment I expect you to embark on, but I may well dig further. Thanks for the heads up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazzer1975 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
There has also been research done to link animal cruelty, which is what you are stating clearly and unequivocally that you are ok with, to socio- and psyco-paths.


And yet I'm not ambivalent about socio- and psychopaths. I don't see the purpose in being unkind to an animal for nothing other than sadistic pleasure. You might argue that foie gras is just that, but I'd point out that foie gras consumption is not linked to aberrant behavior, unlike animal cruelty. No need to make an animal suffer unnecessarily, certainly, but cost-saving counts as "necessary" enough to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dazzer1975 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
thankfully, the state of California doesn't agree with you, for one, from 2012 the sale and production of fois gras will become illegal there.


I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, as a Manc, and assume that you're unaware of the current trouble California is in (aside from the forest fires). California is not a forward-thinking model in any sense of the word. It is a regressive, regulation-happy entity that single-handedly degrades the quality of life for tens of millions of people.
 
Sep 2, 2009 at 3:02 PM Post #63 of 75
Quote:

Originally Posted by Duggeh /img/forum/go_quote.gif
...if your precious absolutist holier-than-thou morality scales out from beyond your neat cosseted little feelgood worldview you'd see that the principle of least harm dictates we should be eating more beef and everyone knows that the best way to serve beef is wrapped up in filo pastry and pine nuts with a good layer of fois gras in there too.

I cannot abide the kind of hollow, smug, santimonious ******** "morality" or "philosophy" that gets pushed the way you're pushing your point here. It's so unconscionably phoney.


Wow. Not nice. I thought insults and personal attacks were not allowed on the forum.
 
Sep 2, 2009 at 4:06 PM Post #64 of 75
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sherwood /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I've no doubt that it's harmful to the animals welfare. I also imagine that, considering where I've enjoyed Foie Gras, I've had some of it produced without the use of force feeding. I'd be curious to know if one could taste the difference. Not an experiment I expect you to embark on, but I may well dig further. Thanks for the heads up.


You're most welcome. I am not sure as to if it is commercially available though, and thats because of your argument below: re cost effectiveness and for a lower yield, but there are alternatives, it is up to the foie gras industry to adopt them... or not.




Quote:

And yet I'm not ambivalent about socio- and psychopaths. I don't see the purpose in being unkind to an animal for nothing other than sadistic pleasure. You might argue that foie gras is just that, but I'd point out that foie gras consumption is not linked to aberrant behavior, unlike animal cruelty. No need to make an animal suffer unnecessarily, certainly, but cost-saving counts as "necessary" enough to me.


We'll have to agree to disagree about that, I can accept that for many many people financial considerations are a prime motivating force in their decision making, but this is a so called luxury product which really doesn't fall into that category. Although as explained in a previous post, for those who really do need to make financial considerations for even the most basic of foodstuffs, a little culinary education would go a long way, certainly in Britain where there is a real ignorance surrounding healthy eating and what actually is a cheaper mode of providing meals for a family. We have a generation who think prepacked, precooked meals are the cheapest food stuffs out there, but thats a separate discussion.



Quote:

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, as a Manc, and assume that you're unaware of the current trouble California is in (aside from the forest fires). California is not a forward-thinking model in any sense of the word. It is a regressive, regulation-happy entity that single-handedly degrades the quality of life for tens of millions of people.


Speaking as a manc, and one who has never visited California, I do have to say that my impression of them, however distant from the reality of those living there, is that it is quite a forward thinking state that is prepared to make a lot of hard decisions for the greater good.
 
Sep 7, 2009 at 12:01 AM Post #67 of 75
Quote:

Originally Posted by dazzer1975 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Speaking as a manc, and one who has never visited California, I do have to say that my impression of them, however distant from the reality of those living there, is that it is quite a forward thinking state that is prepared to make a lot of hard decisions for the greater good.


No, it has a very flawed political system, which results in California having a pretty hard recession.

And I think I will order the foie gras tonight.
 
Sep 7, 2009 at 12:22 AM Post #70 of 75
If we weren't 'designed' to eat meat....what the hell are our front teeth for again?

Oh....to eat meat. We are omnivores i.e. we eat plants and meat and our teeth are designed like that for a reason.
Also without meat, our brain size relative to our weight wouldn't be near what it is today therefore we wouldn't be as smart.
Vegetarians lack B12 in their diet and are also more likely to be depressed.
Notice how a lot of vegetarians are pale looking...

What you should eat is fatty meat..yes, I said it, fatty meat like bacon. Saturated fat is good for you. Mono and polysaturated fat is bad. The biggest killer in the human diet is refined sugar.

Eat more bacon.

I'm not saying a pure meat or pure vegetarian diet is good however.

Give this a read:

The Skinny on Fats

- All the academic evidence points towards what I've said.
 
Sep 7, 2009 at 4:28 AM Post #72 of 75
Quote:

Originally Posted by dazzer1975 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Speaking as a manc, and one who has never visited California, I do have to say that my impression of them, however distant from the reality of those living there, is that it is quite a forward thinking state that is prepared to make a lot of hard decisions for the greater good.


Well... in some ways California is. In others, I think you'd find the state shockingly behind the times. I'm a third generation Los Angeles native, so I've spent a bit of time here.
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I find Oregon west of the Cascade mountain range more progressive, though the rest of that state is the Deep South. Don't ask meto explain, but it is a contradictory (and wonderful) place I lived in for about eight years. Anyhow, please pay us a visit out here some time. Skip the regular tourist traps and hang around the South Bay. I think you'd like it here.
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As for the omnivore argument... it is pretty obvious, isn't it? We can digest meat. You cannot digest what you're not intended to eat, so meat is inarguably part of the human diet. You can survive eating nothing but meat, which is prima faciae evidence we are meant to eat it.

How much, how produced and what kind is plenty fair argument, however.

And I say that as a partial vegetarian. I'm not willing to give up meat altogether, but there is a good argument for limiting intake. In June 2008, I made a radical shift in diet. I weighed too much and wasn't happy about it. Meat has a high calorie density, so it was one of the first things to go. I'm vegetarian Monday through Friday and have one serving of meat on Saturdays and Sundays. Holidays excepted.
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It is livable, I've come to enjoy it, and intend to stick with it for a lifetime. It's also taken me from about 260 lbs. to 150 lbs. At 37, I feel better than when I was a teenager. I won't give up meat - it is an essentialpart of our diet - but cutting back is feasible, workable and changed my life for the better.
 
Sep 7, 2009 at 4:51 AM Post #73 of 75
Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well... in some ways California is. In others, I think you'd find the state shockingly behind the times. I'm a third generation Los Angeles native, so I've spent a bit of time here.
smily_headphones1.gif
I find Oregon west of the Cascade mountain range more progressive, though the rest of that state is the Deep South. Don't ask meto explain, but it is a contradictory (and wonderful) place I lived in for about eight years. Anyhow, please pay us a visit out here some time. Skip the regular tourist traps and hang around the South Bay. I think you'd like it here.
smily_headphones1.gif



I sincerely hope to, America, the continent and the country is a must see destination, I hope I make it one day. I've always fancied driving coast to coast to see the real America never been one for sticking to the strictly touristy places.

Quote:

It is livable, I've come to enjoy it, and intend to stick with it for a lifetime. It's also taken me from about 260 lbs. to 150 lbs. At 37, I feel better than when I was a teenager. I won't give up meat - it is an essentialpart of our diet - but cutting back is feasible, workable and changed my life for the better.


I wholeheartedly agree, I am not so convinced by chinesekiwi's findings, for the me, the preponderance of evidence saying otherwise seems pretty convincing to me, not to mention my own dietary habits which have fluctuated from eating processed crap of all sorts including lots of dairy to eating clean nutritious produce such as vegetables, salads and fruit combined with chicken, fish and turkey have allowed me to observe in myself the change in fitness levels, energy levels, a quickening and sharpening of the mind and a general increased feeling of wellbeing emotionally and physically when eating the more natural balanced diet of unprocessed clean protein and vegetables.

It stands to reason that this kind of diet has greater health benefits for us as this is the basic fundamental composition of diet that our species grew up on.
 
Sep 7, 2009 at 5:16 AM Post #74 of 75
Quote:

Originally Posted by dazzer1975 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I sincerely hope to, America, the continent and the country is a must see destination, I hope I make it one day. I've always fancied driving coast to coast to see the real America never been one for sticking to the strictly touristy places.


America is a truly diverse country. Completely different from state to state...oh yeah, and we have these things called states (I believe we're the only country that does that...)
 
Sep 7, 2009 at 5:21 AM Post #75 of 75
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Originally Posted by DeusEx /img/forum/go_quote.gif
(I believe we're the only country that does that...)


Not really, no. There are many countries with states by other names. De Tocqueville might argue that none of them are nearly so unique as the US, but the US never got anywhere by listening to the French.
 
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