[kramer5150]

Why are these resistors so popular in the signal chain?

Are either of these VD resistors?

 

[Fitz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramer5150 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why are these resistors so popular in the signal chain?

Because they look cool.

 

[hYdrociTy]

The colors of high end stuff match, brown vd's, red bg's, black ic chips, copper pcb.. It all looks dark, woody, and luxurious.

 

[tangent]

Dale was a resistor manufacturer that made many different lines of resistors. Vishay bought them, and Vishay also makes many different kinds of resistors. Thus, not all "Vishay-Dale" resistors are the same. What you've pictured there are not the popular RN/CMF series. I'd poke around on vishay.com for "PTF" to learn more about the ones you've got pictured there.

 

[d-cee]

i'd buy them cos they're easier to read the values on!

but also i think they're supposed to sound better duno. maybe someone can clarify

 

[lordvader]

How do vishay/dales compare with Holco/PRP resistors ? They're essentially priced the same, and look equally cool (black holco's !!!)

 

[tomb]

These are the things I've heard and read, and the experience I've had. As always, there will be differing opinions and YMMV:

1. Metal-film resistors have less noise than other resistor types.
2. Metal-film resistors's resistance does not alter under heat.
3. The V-D brand of metal-film resistors are the highest quality metal-film resistors, of those regularly availble at reasonable prices:
a.) They offer greater precision over value, and do not vary from resistor to resistor as other brands, e.g., "matching" is not as difficult.
b.) V-D's are also tremendously derated. For a given application, they will readily support twice the power load for the same wattage rating
4. As already mentioned, V-D's use value labels instead of color codes, actually reducing the chances of confusion or a mis-placed resistor.

All of that said, there are certain instances where a V-D resistor does not sound as good. Those cases, more often than not, involve tube circuits where some noise and harshness is already present. A V-D resistor will not mask this - at all. In those cases, some of the boutique resistors will sound better - Kiwame, Stackpole, etc.

I've specifically replaced the V-D resistors on the outputs of my SOHA's and put in Stackpoles. The Stackpoles sound "sweeter" with no harshness. I doubt seriously that result is because the Stackpoles are better electrically. No doubt, the reverse is true, and in a manner similar to tubes vs. solid state. These differences are much less significant in a Millett Hybrid, btw.

Also, I would never consider one of the boutique resistors in a solid-state circuit: those are V-D's all the way.

 

[Garbz]

1. Metal-film resistors have less noise than other resistor types.

--True though this is so insignificant it bearly makes an impact on even measurement gear. Other factors play a much larger role.

2. Metal-film resistors's resistance does not alter under heat.

--Yes they do. the ppm/C varies quite considerably depending on the resistor construction.

3. The V-D brand of metal-film resistors are the highest quality metal-film resistors, of those regularly availble at reasonable prices:
a.) They offer greater precision over value, and do not vary from resistor to resistor as other brands, e.g., "matching" is not as difficult.

--hogwash. The ones most people use have the same 1% precision. If it were any better Vishey-Dale would be screaming about how good their parts are by labeling them 0.5% or so.

b.) V-D's are also tremendously derated. For a given application, they will readily support twice the power load for the same wattage rating

--They are also twice the size of most other resistors so this goes without saying. Also they are rated at a certain level, don't bet on it that they will all go beyond their rating. The ratings are there for a reason. Anyway resistors have a positive temp co-efficient, all will either settle at a temperature or smoke. I use generic 1W carbons in one of my projects with 1.5W across them. They seem to settle at around 130-140 degrees. They haven't burnt and the device has been working for years. Yay for dodgy engineering :S

4. As already mentioned, V-D's use value labels instead of color codes, actually reducing the chances of confusion or a mis-placed resistor.

--Now this is good. Unless you're like me and don't pay attention which way you bend the leads and the number ends up on the bottom.

All of that said, there are certain instances where a V-D resistor does not sound as good. Those cases, more often than not, involve tube circuits where some noise and harshness is already present. A V-D resistor will not mask this - at all. In those cases, some of the boutique resistors will sound better - Kiwame, Stackpole, etc.

--Try as I may I have never heard a difference between resistors.

Also, I would never consider one of the boutique resistors in a solid-state circuit: those are V-D's all the way.

--Amen there. Spend money where it should be, on a more complicated circuit or better headphones. VDs are cheap, are they better then generic resistors? Who knows. They work just as well but they aren't magic audiophile grade crap by any means.

 

[nysulli]

i've done noise level comparisions between vishney metal film resistors (the blue ones hand matched) and standard radioshack carbon film ones (again hand matched) for a critical experiment setup.

the vishney's were in fact quieter, the noise floor was dropped from 2mv to 1mv, yes a very minor difference, but in my case it was huge, as i was attempting to acquire data that needed to be as precise as possible.

but in the end, i use them in my audio projects simply because their cheap, easy to find in any value, and you know their good quality

 

[tomb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Garbz /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1. Metal-film resistors have less noise than other resistor types. --True though this is so insignificant it bearly makes an impact on even measurement gear. Other factors play a much larger role.

Others have much different opinions, and reported distortion measurements prove out. Is it just happenstance that the desire for a quality circuit went to metal film resistors instead of carbon?

Quote:

2. Metal-film resistors's resistance does not alter under heat. --Yes they do. the ppm/C varies quite considerably depending on the resistor construction.

Not true, especially the V-D's, which are still spec'd to hold within a certain tolerance at twice their power rating - 5%. This is one of the reasons they are mil-spec'd for performance under extraordinary conditions.

Quote:

3. The V-D brand of metal-film resistors are the highest quality metal-film resistors, of those regularly availble at reasonable prices: a.) They offer greater precision over value, and do not vary from resistor to resistor as other brands, e.g., "matching" is not as difficult. --hogwash. The ones most people use have the same 1% precision. If it were any better Vishey-Dale would be screaming about how good their parts are by labeling them 0.5% or so.

With respect, "Hogwash" doesn't qualify as an opinion difference. My varying mileage compared to your varying mileage says V-D's statistically vary less with their measurements out of the bag, period. IOW, their 1% variance, similar to their power rating, is over-rated.

Quote:

4.) V-D's are also tremendously derated. For a given application, they will readily support twice the power load for the same wattage rating --They are also twice the size of most other resistors so this goes without saying. Also they are rated at a certain level, don't bet on it that they will all go beyond their rating. The ratings are there for a reason. Anyway resistors have a positive temp co-efficient, all will either settle at a temperature or smoke. I use generic 1W carbons in one of my projects with 1.5W across them. They seem to settle at around 130-140 degrees. They haven't burnt and the device has been working for years. Yay for dodgy engineering :S

Not true. The V-D's are documented for a true 5% at twice their power rating, as stated above. As for bigger size, so what? They are in the size range of acceptability - no different than other resistors at the 5% power rating. However, another resistor used in a circuit at 1% of its power rating does not have 1% tighter resistance tolerance. The V-D's do.

Quote:

4. As already mentioned, V-D's use value labels instead of color codes, actually reducing the chances of confusion or a mis-placed resistor. --Now this is good. Unless you're like me and don't pay attention which way you bend the leads and the number ends up on the bottom.

Yes, well - poor building practice will negate this advantage.

Quote:

All of that said, there are certain instances where a V-D resistor does not sound as good. Those cases, more often than not, involve tube circuits where some noise and harshness is already present. A V-D resistor will not mask this - at all. In those cases, some of the boutique resistors will sound better - Kiwame, Stackpole, etc. --Try as I may I have never heard a difference between resistors.

Try more. A one-to-one comparison in many tube circuits make this change obvious. Again, why are there boutique resistors? Why do tube vendors sell carbon resistors with claims of "sweeter" sound? Sure, there's hype in how much, but the fundamental reason is indisputable.

Quote:

Also, I would never consider one of the boutique resistors in a solid-state circuit: those are V-D's all the way. --Amen there. Spend money where it should be, on a more complicated circuit or better headphones. VDs are cheap, are they better then generic resistors? Who knows. They work just as well but they aren't magic audiophile grade crap by any means.

Thankfully, we agreed on something. Too bad on the rest of it.

 

[mono]

Why? Because they look like plump little sausages.

On a more serious note, if a lot of people started claiming a different resistor sounded better at a similar price, they might become less popular, but as it stands it is easier to spend a few pennies more instead of wondering if you're missing out on something. At least, I assume this, I've used the V-Ds on various projects but didn't hesitate to use other metal films either when that's what I had on-hand, or were more convenient to place in an existing order, like the Yageo from Digikey. I can't hear a difference.

 

[Seaside]

Lot of good opinions regarding resistors, and that's good.

I use whatever resistors available.
Don't care brand as long as it is 1% metal and accurate.

Go back to V-D, What I really like is its bright clear color of color code. It is really easy to read. You can distinguish colors w/o problem. You know, it is very hard to read when color is dull like... redish orange or redish brown... etc. Oh... its sausage like shape in some of V-D is interesting too. At least, V-D is good reliable brand. And I think that's good enough reason to go V-D.

However, I would not choose V-D if I can get 5 other resistors with price of 1 good looking V-D.

 

[AndrewFischer]

It isn't all that clear from the other posts.

The Vishay-Dale resistors everyone is talking about are the CMF/RNxx series of mil-spec resistors. There are other manufacturers of these resistors, but Mouser stocks the Dales.

There are several grades of tolerance temperature coefficients. Mouser only carries the RNxxDxxxxF's that are 1% and 100ppm. RNxxC's are 50ppm and the E's are 25ppm.

RNxx power ratings are specified over a military temperature range. In the commercial temp range they have a higher power rating. As I recall the 1/4W RN60s are 1/2W at commercial temperatures.

 

[tomb]

Yes, Andrew - thank you for that clarification. My comments were directed to the RN60 and RN55 V-D's available at Mouser and Newark. I don't know about the others.

 

[ezkcdude]

I use the PTF56 which are 0.1% precision and 10ppm. If you need better matching than 1%, and you don't have a good DMM (or enough time to hand match), these are a good choice. And yes, they also look cool.