[Ruben123]

If you think a tube smoothens the already edgy sine waves...
Then wow. Magic in there.

I like people who care about how transparent and clean and perfect signaled their gears are, though having a mediocore headphone with which they are not even able to hear the differences all makes!

 

[stv014]

The issue is digital harshness is caused by digital bitrate quantization and dithering to analog sound.
With HQ fast headphone this harshness SQ will be prominant and using DSP EQ/filtering doesn't get rid of bitrate quantization/dithering harshing, hence the use of tube in the endgame as last "analog dithering/filtering".

 
http://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml

 

[OddE]

If you think a tube smoothens the already edgy sine waves...

-Given a poor enough high frequency response, they would indeed filter out the edginess...

Just sayin'...

 

[kramer5150]

I use EQ adjustments on the iTunes EQ all the time with both my tube and solid state amps.  Not a lot mind you, just ~3-4 db boost at the lowest 32Hz register.  It helps make up for the sub-bass roll-off that all the cans in my profile exhibit.  Its not a night and day difference though, its mainly room acoustics and resonance underneath the ~50-60 Hz fundamental tones in each recording.  Its adds that sensation of air blowing and flutter to the lower pipe organ tones.  Yes, most definitely boosting the signal (in any way) changes distortion characteristics at the end of the signal chain.
 
Its like anything else, people have preferences... what they like and what they don't like.  One thing I  HAVE noticed, whether people have the stones to admit it or not... Distortion CAN SOUND GOOD, however its implemented.  Just turning up the volume, on even the cleanest amp circuit will increase THD of the headphone diaphragm.  Thats what magnetic coil drivers do, thats why guitar players crank up their amps, its also why head-fi'ers prefer listen to their cans at ear-bleeding loud volumes.  Distortion sounds GOOD.
 
Thats one reason I listen to my cans at whisper-quiet volumes (in addition to the dangers of hearing-loss and tinnitus).  But I have always felt low volume levels allows me to hear more clearly the source, and the characteristics of the amp circuit itself.

 

[bigshot]

The thing about equalizers is that there are good ones and bad ones. The iTunes equalizer isn't particularly useful because it has tremendous spill between channels, even medium amounts of correction introduce audible noise, and there aren't enough bands to deal with typical imbalances. The big advantage it has is being able to embed an EQ curve into an AAC file, so every time you play it on your iPhone or iPod it uses the correction. That makes it possible to easily correct badly engineered songs without throwing off the balance for the rest of your library. I really wish there was a better quality third party equalizer that can do that, but I haven't found one. All the ones I found were global corrections, not able to be embedded into a specific file.

 

[dprimary]

A tube amp should not have any more distortion then a solid state design, unless it was designed to distort. Many graphic eq's are pretty bad. The inherent problem with graphic eq is the fixed frequencies, most of the time the filter is only close to where the problem is. Often you have use more filters to correct the problem or a single filter is too wide. The filters all interact with each other, Rane has digital graphic that works around some of the issues http://www.rane.com/deq60l.html
 
Parametric EQ is a better solution but more difficult to learn to use.

 

[Gr8Desire]

  Thats one reason I listen to my cans at whisper-quiet volumes (in addition to the dangers of hearing-loss and tinnitus).  But I have always felt low volume levels allows me to hear more clearly the source, and the characteristics of the amp circuit itself.

 
Listening at low levels doesn't hurt  - literally and figuratively.

If you choose to listen at lower SPLs, then you MUST correct for human hearing inadequacies at both ends of the frequency spectrum. No tube amp can do this alone.

This leads to an interesting conclusion: Audiophiles who refuse to use equalization must therefore always listen at 90+ dB to get the flat frequency response they are searching for.

Ouch!   
 
--- I say that again for those who don't believe in equalization: OUCH!

 

 

[mkshm]

  I must say, I am a bit confused.
 
Many audiophiles love tubes but will never consider a graphical equalizer. Isn't this a fundamental contradiction?  
 
Tubes only do basic two things: change frequency response and add distortion*.  

*distortion includes errors in the time dimension. It also includes errors in the frequency dimension (i.e., measured frequency response)  but distortion in this direction  is generally considered less destructive. 
 
A graphic equalizer does exactly the same thing: it changes frequency response and adds distortion. When applied in the digital data stream, before being processed by a DAC, the amount of distortion created by a graphic equalizer has to be many times lower than with tubes that apply their errors to the analog stage. As a bonus, frequency response can be modified as needed. 

If there are pleasing harmonic distortions that you prefer, wouldn't a graphic distortion equalizer (once again applied in the digital data stream) do everything that every tube can do?

A long-time computer geek wants to know...

 
Good to know that I am not the only one that's confused 

 
I find these kinds of posts really funny: This headphone is too bright. Let's use this Amp which makes the treble smooth and then combine with these cables which makes the treble even more smoother but No, don't ever use EQ!

 

[castleofargh]

my problem isn't that people wish to use colored amps or even colored DACs(ok that I don't really get). after all the point is to end up with a sound we like and ow we get there doesn't really matters.
 
my problem is when someone comes crying about the distortions or phase shifts of an EQ or any kind of DSP(with no idea about the magnitude of those at all), while thinking that a colored tube amp is somehow free of those stuff for some magical reasons.
if the FR changes in one amp, then the effect will be the same as an analog EQ(well it could be worst, but I doubt it would ever be better), and when some harsh trebles get soften, or when some bass gets more "texture", those are distortions. and if they are audible, it just says that there are a lot more distortions than EQ alone can create. DSPs simulating tubes are just adding those kind of high distortions, the only difficulty is to tune the effects instead of getting only one sound.
 
anyway my point is, don't cry over distortions or phase or any of those stuff if you're using a colored tube amp, because that's a "beam in the eye" situation. I've seen several typical sounding tube amps get in the 1 to 3% distortions from the manufacturer's specs. what kind of massacre do we need to do to get the same with an equalizer? a nice free software EQ would never get anywhere near there, so let's imagine what 200$ could get you in quality be it digital or analog EQ.
 
so people do what they want, and that's cool, but let's not mistake what we're happy with for actual signal fidelity.

 

[bigshot]

  my problem isn't that people wish to use colored amps or even colored DACs(ok that I don't really get). after all the point is to end up with a sound we like and ow we get there doesn't really matters.

 
Actually, how you get there is pretty important. If you use out of spec DACs and colored amps and inefficient cables to try to adjust EQ instead of an equalizer, you will get unpredictable and inaccurate results. If you use an equalizer instead, you can quickly dial in the correction with great precision.

 

[castleofargh]

 

  my problem isn't that people wish to use colored amps or even colored DACs(ok that I don't really get). after all the point is to end up with a sound we like and ow we get there doesn't really matters.

 
Actually, how you get there is pretty important. If you use out of spec DACs and colored amps and inefficient cables to try to adjust EQ instead of an equalizer, you will get unpredictable and inaccurate results. If you use an equalizer instead, you can quickly dial in the correction with great precision.

oh I was talking without regard to actual audio quality or how more random and complicated the road would be for the guy. just saying if somehow one end up with something he likes, then he's done.
as soon as we're talking actual sound quality, then of course it makes no sense to randomly multiply the non transparent devices.

 

[mkshm]

  >>>> I've seen several typical sounding tube amps get in the 1 to 3% distortions from the manufacturer's specs. what kind of massacre do we need to do to get the same with an equalizer? a nice free software EQ would never get anywhere near there, so let's imagine what 200$ could get you in quality be it digital or analog EQ.
 
 

 
+1 

 

[bigshot]

  as soon as we're talking actual sound quality, then of course it makes no sense to randomly multiply the non transparent devices.

 
I almost always worry about actual audio quality. It makes life a lot easier.

 

[PeterXu]

Because non-audiophiles love playing with EQ but only audiophiles can play with tubes.

 

[Gr8Desire]

Because non-audiophiles love playing with EQ but only audiophiles can play with tubes.

Because non-audiophiles love playing with EQ but only audiophiles will play with tubes.

Good definition of a hobby if you ask me.