[Tomcat]

Quote:

Are tubes in fact more true than transistors, despite their opposite reputation?

JaZZ,

you bet they are. This is a link to an article by Lynn Olson that explains some of the finer points of harmonic distortion measurements. I don't believe that euphonic distortion exists and neither does Olson as it seems. As you may know, to me, musicality and accuracy are one and the same thing.

The reason the EMP was musically more pleasing than the headphones driven directly from your source's output could be that the EMP has an easier time handling the back EMF (electromagnetic force) generated by the headphone and fed back into the output circuit. It could be that the EMP has more control over the driver movement than the source's output stage. And it might have a lower output impedance.

Before I bought my Audio Note CD3.1x I had tried another CDP, a "Dynavox Dynastation" with two EL34s in triode mode in its output stage. This Dynastation (which is based on a Sony PSOne, believe or not) came equipped with an attenuator and I had an adaptor custom made to directly connect my headphones to the CDP. Well, the Dynastation sucked and it sucked even more without the EMP in the signal path. The sound was somewhat harsh, distorted and annoying (with and without the EMP), and before all, it wasn't loud enough without the EMP. The Dynastation people offered to specifically design their output stage in order to drive headphones with it, but the Dynastation's sound had been so uninviting that I declined.

By the way, my new favorite 12AT7 for the EMP is a Siemens E81CC. The Telefunken ECC801S sounds slightly hi-fi-ish, lean, harsh and less 3D and natural by comparison.

 

[JaZZ]

Quote:

Originally posted by Randu I wonder what it would take to upgrade the path in a CD/DVD/DAC/SACD to higher quality components and add a volume control? Could this be done within the unit? (yeah, I know, there goes the warranty if it's still that new). If this provides a clean, manageable signal for headphone use, well, WOW, I just saved 300/500/900 scoots!!!BTW, the 590s have about 40/50 hrs of burn in time.

That seems to be a good idea – except for the warranty issue – and besides exactly what geom_tol was suggesting. (Couldn't do it myself, though.) You can't get a more accurate sound from the CD player, IMHO, and thus you probably save the money a Blockhead would cost. At least.

BTW, congratulation to your HD 590! And finally welcome to Head-Fi!

JaZZ

 

[JaZZ]

Hallo Thomas

What a fascinating article! The first time somebody has a credible and plausible approach to the question why amplifiers measure that equal and sound that different. I was already about to believe in esoteric influences... I didn't understand all details, but the conclusion is clear: it's the high-order harmonic distortion – usually not measured during the development process. Tubes, especially triodes, seem to distort less than transistors... Anyhow this sounds plausible: the liquid tube sound, the edgy solid-state sound, and high-order HD probably adds the edge... At least a hot trace.

Quote:

I don't believe that euphonic distortion exists and neither does Olson as it seems. As you may know, to me, musicality and accuracy are one and the same thing.

At least a mature audiophile doesn't need euphonic or spectacular modifications. (Am I one?) The plain truth speaks for itself in a touching manner. I agree. that's the reason I renounce a pre-amp. I think we concentrate on amplifiers. Nevertheless, 2nd, 3rd and 4th order HD can sound euphonic and are used in restoration software to simulate tube sound. Besides, I'm currently experiencing how headphone amps modify the sound in a euphonic way – tube and solid-state amps in a similar degree. So I'm kind of split.
Quote:

The reason the EMP was musically more pleasing than the headphones driven directly from your source's output could be that the EMP has an easier time handling the back EMF (electromagnetic force) generated by the headphone and fed back into the output circuit. It could be that the EMP has more control over the driver movement than the source's output stage. And it might have a lower output impedance.

These factors are indeed in my consideration list. Anyway: I doubt there's any considerable EMF with headphones, and if, I don't see why all of my headamps' output stages handle it equally better than the output stages of my two DACs. Furthermore, my passive «pre-amp» virtually has about the same output impedance as the EMP.

I'm living a long tradition of pre-amp-less hi-fi reproduction. The sound character of this configuration is exactly the same as the one mentioned with my direct-path headphone connection. Without a pre-amp the sound is dry and meager (not in terms of bass, though). It requires a lot of fine-tuning work on the speakers' crossover network, much more finicky than with a pre-amp, to make the system shine – but then it really does! And as you can imagine, there's no EMF in play between high-level source devices and power amps.

I really think I have to agree that the original sound is less attractive than the one if an amp adds its euphonic coloration. But there is good news, and you are the first to hear it: At least with my HD 600, the direct-path sound has become quite listenable, even more than this: a serious alternative to the EMP. Now I'm using a headphone cable with more capacity and less inductivity. This smoothes the sound further, filling up the direct-path «emptiness», and creating a better sonic coherence. It's fun that way. And a certain confirmation that the ampless operation requires some careful fine-tuning – something a headphone normally doesn't allow, at least not in a significant measure.
Quote:

By the way, my new favorite 12AT7 for the EMP is a Siemens E81CC. The Telefunken ECC801S sounds slightly hi-fi-ish, lean, harsh and less 3D and natural by comparison.

Since I know you have the Miniwatts in the output stage, I can imagine that this smoother sounding tube tames their sharpness quite a bit. What about the smooth and clear Sylvania JAN 6922 instead of the somewhat sharp and dry Miniwatt (SQ in my case)? I don't like it very much. Currently I use two Siemens E88CC or ECC188 together with the well-known Telefunken ECC801S. I like the brilliance this combo provides.

Thanks again for your info!

JaZZ

 

[aaron-xp]

A bump after almost 5 years. I think this would be really interesting for newer members. I have tried doing it without any potentiometer. Was a little too loud though.

Any idea of how to include the potentiometer into the mini "passive pre-amp"? Don't blame me if this is supposed to be really easy. I'm really lousy at electronics.

 

[Champ04]

Thanks for the bump aaron-xp. I hadnt ever noticed this thread but things it is very very useful.

Despite all of the really really cool "toys" that I have and have been privy to experience, the most resolving and, by far, most listenable rig is my old Wadia X64.4 dac direct out to my Ety Er-4x.
I started with a 10kohm variable resistor. Played with it to find what was the most safe and pleasing listening level. Took out the variable and tested its value. Then I made a DIY cable with a high quality resistor of said value and have been in musical nirvana ever since.
I still use my other systems. But if I really want to get into the music this is where I go.