Why not simply plug the headphones into the DAC? (long!)
Dec 27, 2002 at 1:46 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 20

JaZZ

Headphoneus Supremus
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To take up a topic broached in this thread...

I guess there are very few people which already have tried to renounce or bypass their headphone amp and connect their headphones directly to their CD player or DAC. Given that the latter's analog output impedance is often clearly below 100 ohm and provides at least the standardized 2 volt, in some cases even considerably more, it must clearly be able to drive any dynamic headphone. And it seems very reasonable to use the shortest signal path possible, which necessarily will provide a virtually unaltered signal to feed the headphones with – in contrast to the headamp operation, which puts some – actually superfluous – amplifier stages in the signal path. Well, all that's necessary to do so is a 250-1000 ohm stereo potentiometer which acts as a pure attenuator (more specifically: as an adjustable bleeder/voltage divider) for loudness control.

Does this configuration have any downsides? Yes: there is a restriction of the source device's output impedance in order not to influence the system's frequency response (and ouput level) too much. I guess anything below 150 ohm will work fine. Besides, this output impedance and the potentiometer's impedance together form varying (depending on the attenuation adjustment) serial and parallel resistances. They cause an electrical interaction with the headphone's impedance curve, so that it may slightly increase the area around its bass resonance and possibly towards highest frequencies, due to the voice coil's inductivity. This happens in the same range as with most tube amps with output impedances between 100 and 300 ohm, while solid-state amps have low impedances of about 20 ohm.

I did compare the affection by serial resistances with my Corda HA-1 which has the extra 120 ohm output jack. It really changed the sound of all my headphones a bit more or less – apart from the volume reduction. The changes restricted themselves to (very) slight balance shifts, mostly in the form of an emphasizing of bass and upper treble. Actually one would expect that low-impedance cans like the Grados are more affected than the 300-ohm HD 600, but that's not the case – the reason is the much flatter impedance curve of the Grado models. And there's no loss of bass precision due to a reduced damping factor, as it would appear with bass speakers. This can clearly be reproduced with the Etymotic ER-4 P to S conversion proceeding or generally by watching the ER-4 system, with its 20 to 100 ohm serial resistors added to the plain 7 ohms of its driver's voice coil to provide a practical impedance – obviously without any harm to the sound.

Some information about the equipment used for this comparison:

– My Sennheiser HD 600 is equipped with a home-made cable made of capillary 0.028 mm magnet wires, plaited to four strands of 400 each; the (dust protection) foam pads which originally cover the drivers are removed. Both modifications move the sound towards considerably greater clarity, forwardness and airiness (no «veiled» sound anymore...).

– My Etymotic ER-4S are equipped with a Fixup replacement cable, with pleasing sound and clearly reduced microphonics compared to the stock cable; originally with two 50 ohm resistors (also called ER-«X»), I reverted to 100 ohm («S»), which has turned out as the better match with my portable Archos MP3 player and performs equally with my home setup. Their foam tips are made of pierced noise protection plugs, impregnated with contact adhesive for air-tight seal and thus stronger bass, leaving the transducer stems flush with the foam surface or even slightly protruding; this necessitates the protection of the thus exposed filter by some nylon gauze folded around the stem. The original filter (membrane) is replaced by some lambswool filaments for an even smoother, less resonant treble reproduction. Additionally this provides the possibility to fine-tune the sound by dosing the lambswool density.

– My Grado SR-225 and SR-325 are dressed with some modded yellow Sennheiser pads; in order not to lose too much treble thereby, I have bended them in such a way that they have a very lose fit on my head, thus low pressure to my ears.

– My AKG K 501 is virtually in original state, except for a black velvet coating of the driver's ring-shaped bare plastic surface, meant to reduce reflections inside the earpieces/-pads. With all of them I can clearly identify the sonic character of the respective amp used.

– My Musical Fidelity X-Cans (primary version), a well-known tube/solid-state hybrid amp, is in original state.

– My Brocksieper Earmax Pro presently is equipped with one Telefunken E801S in the input stage and two Siemens ECC188 in the output stage.

– My Corda Blue (Meier Audio Corda Headamp-1, modified by Head-Fi's famous KurtW) is my solid-state alternative.

– My passive headphone «amp» consists of an «airplane»-plywood housing and a logarithmic 500-ohm (no-name) potentiometer.

– My new Bel Canto DAC2 is a 24 bit/192 kHz upsampling DAC; output impedance: 20 ohm, output voltage: 2 volt.

– Interconnects: all IC cables are of the same kind as described in the HD 600 paragraph: made of ultra-thin magnet wire, i.e. individually isolated 0.028 mm copper wires, about 400 per conductor. This cable design has turned out – to my ears – to provide the best high-frequency extension, a super-clear upper end, assumedly thanks to a highly reduced skin effect...

I can't pretend to have achieved an exactly equal loudness level by simply adjusting it by naked ears, but I have done it with all the care that I could apply, and the various sessions with individual settings finally have effected consistent results.

With my DAC's line-out signal feeding a headphone directly, just attenuated by some resistors (or the potentiometer, respectively), the sound is more direct (not necessarily spacially), more accurate and also more meager and «dry» than with any of the comparative amps: X-Cans, EMP and Corda Blue. Details are more easily audible and clearer, especially in the treble (I think that's naturally the range where details are located). Each time an amp is in the signal path, the sound seems to gain in coherence and warmth, on the other hand lose some of the clarity, transparency, transient speed and resolution the puristic connection provides. The effect is very much the same independent of the headphone, but with different results in terms of my personal preferences.

With the Etys, the fascination of the full resolution the direct path provides is barely restricted by any lack of coherence or any sensation of coolness or dryness. Their innate character has a signature similar to the direct path's: from the CD directly to the brain... without the detour via pinna and auditory canal directly to the eardrum. The ear-catching lack of smearing effects is cultivated that way to an equally intellectual and sensual/esthetic delight: the beauty of the pure, unaffected sound.
With the EMP, there's just a trace less attack in the mids and lower highs, a flimsy veil, but of a very pleasing manner, exposing – on the other hand – the extreme highs a bit, creating a great beauty of its own kind with a touching musical flow and the impression of a subtle sheen. The soundstage is virtually unaltered, just a tiny loss of focus. – The Etys sound equally impressive and credible with the EMP like with the direct path, sort of milder, but equally lively presentation of the same musical image, maybe comparable with an ultra-fine TFT and a very sharp and fine flat CRT display. And the over-all character/balance is rather similar.
With the Corda Blue, the most conspicuous difference is its slight mat coloration. And like with the EMP, there is a certain minor loss of clarity and attack, accompanied by a kind of breathy timbre. It has its special charm, and – after a certain (short) familiarization – I perceive it as virtually free of coloration, but of an impressive 3-dimensionality and focus, even more than the direct path, and an intimate atmosphere. Of the three connection variants, this is my least preferred one, because of its slight lack of brilliance, but nevertheless the sound it provides is very good.
I still didn't mention the bass. The reason is: it's very similar with all three variants; there's maybe just a tiny bit more control with the direct path, on the other hand the EMP has the same tiny bit more low bass volume. All in all it's negligible.

With the HD 600, the direct path needs getting used to. And I'm ready to do so... the sound is extremely resolved that way. The separation of instruments is that clear that I'm tempted to call the soundscape empty, not to say hollow sometimes. Of course this scenario is pretty much overdrawn and the fruit of intensive A/B comparisons with multiply-repeated passages, but I can't but state that the direct sound has a slightly artificial timbre for that reason. Nevertheless I'm ready to get into it, and actually I'm on the way to find it rather pleasing, although lacking a bit of the warmth and smoothness the indirect paths provide. The highs are ultra-clear and brilliant, but not overly glossy, very detailed and unsmeared; the mids are lean and neutral; the bass is tight, fast and extended. But to be honest: it's not easy to rate single frequency ranges, because the sound is that fast and feather-light in every regard that it's hardly tangible.
With the EMP, this «problem» is virtually solved: it's quite easy to perceive the slight loss of lower and mid-treble (though it's very slight!) and the (thus?) pronounced upper treble, which gives the sound a charming touch, a dash of smoothness and warmth (actually a slight smearing) to the cool clarity as well as an increased perception of coherence, forming together a beautiful musical flow and an always interesting character with lots of details. – The sonic difference to the above mentioned direct sound is much smaller than it possibly appears by reading this paragraph, but the esthetical appearance is indeed considerably altered, ostensibly in favor of the EMP.
The Corda Blue has a very neutral, fluid and transparent midrange. Like the original HA-1, it has a certain preference for the upper bass and the lowest mids – not so much with sustained tones but more with transients. This is even clearer with the HD 600 than with the Etys and may be the main reason for its pronounced «contour» – be it sonically or spacially. This gives it a sense of «grip» and substance, at the expense of a trace of roughness, although of a very fine grain (maybe rather called «matness»). Sometimes the decay of cymbals slightly tends to sound like pink noise. (These characterizations express the differences to the direct path sound; in fact there is barely such a roughness perceivable without this reference.) This character doesn't harm its great ability to draw a credible 3-dimensional soundstage with very accurate instrument placement. And anyhow its refined (fine-grained), slightly rounded highs remind me of analog sound, though originating from a DAC...
Interestingly with my former Theta DAC I even slightly preferred the Corda Blue to the EMP because of its ability to create such a credible and intimate ambience, but now, with the Bel Canto, it's rather reversed.

Not to get out of hand, I'm abstracting the results with the rest of my equipment. The X-Cans have an astonishingly fine synergy with the HD 600 as well as with the K 501 – almost or in fact equal to the EMP, depending on the recording and my mood. Despite its seemingly reduced midrange transparency and -volume and a tendency to a sharp treble, it offers a great deal of naturalness, sense of space and listening pleasure with these two cans, while the direct sound gives mixed impressions: great clarity and resolution, a slight «digital» timbre and occasionally even shrillness. The same applies to both Grados, of which especially the SR-225 with its mediocre midrange resolution is worth a try with the direct path, but also the more detailed, but less neutral SR-325, at least with rock music.

Summary

There's only one headphone which sounds at least equally good using the direct path via potentiometer: the Etymotic ER-4S. With all other cans I prefer the use of a dedicated headphone amp so far. This seems not to be reasonable. But I have always trusted my ears first. That doesn't mean I think an amp does anything better than a plain cable with some resistors in-between. Rather I suspect that the signal smoothing effect an amp applies masks the technical sound in a way that it becomes agreeable to the ears. But is this hypothetical technical sound due to digital processing or even due to solid-state amplification in most of the digital source devices? The most important thing to me is how astonishingly close the Earmax Pro is to the direct path sound. Are tubes in fact more true than transistors, despite their opposite reputation? On the other hand: what can a further solid-state amplifier stage (like in my case the Corda Blue) change to the better from what a solid-state stage before (the DAC's output stage) has made wrong? (Double-solid-state smoothing – sort of «upsampling»...?) And – referring to this – if a headamp's job is primarily to apply some smoothing effects to the signal, why have the «best sounding» ones to be so damned expensive?

My own headamp arsenal is too small to draw final conclusions. I'd like to kindly invite other Head-Fi members to a fruitful discussion and maybe own direct-path experiments.

smily_headphones1.gif
JaZZ


BTW: those who have plugged their headphones in their soundcard's line out jack can't really expect «better» sound from additional headphone amps after all – at least some kind of smoothing effect.
 
Dec 27, 2002 at 4:39 AM Post #2 of 20
THIS IS VERY INTERESTING.


Technically....direct path should ALWAYS sound better given enough volume. "The purer the signal, the better the sound".

Your findings show that amps contaminate the sound...but euphonically.


Could this mean the amps like the Max, are less accurate than say....a Cmoy
wink.gif



This should mean that the RA1 is the most accurate (op-amp) amp in the world....if it weren't for that cheap op-amp. This just crystallizes why I plan to DIY a RA1 and experiment w/ its design.


You proved me right!


Maybe...I am sure some guy will come along and say "Czilla you are an idiot" and smother me with details about why I am wrong.


I have never been a details man.
 
Dec 27, 2002 at 7:56 PM Post #3 of 20
Oh common....doesn't anyone else see this posts importance?
 
Dec 27, 2002 at 10:01 PM Post #4 of 20
That's one of the reasons I made (portable) DAC, which has headphone amp right on top of the DAC chip. I was inspired by Lars-Erik Wedin's DAC project I've built where MOSFET output stage in class A was more than powerful enough to drive headphones, even though it was designed to be a line amp.
 
Dec 27, 2002 at 10:46 PM Post #5 of 20
Quote:

Originally posted by Czilla9000
Could this mean the amps like the Max are less accurate than say....a Cmoy?
wink.gif


I don't think so. Given that there's an (actually useless) amplification, it should be done in a careful way, with a sophisticated design and high-quality parts.
Quote:

This should mean that the RA1 is the most accurate (op-amp) amp in the world....if it weren't for that cheap op-amp.


I can't follow you... just don't know the RA1 and its special qualities in this regard.
Quote:

....doesn't anyone else see this post's importance?


I'm a bit disappointed, too, but not really surprised. (BTW: thanks for the appreciation!) Thinking of the tons of dollars some Head-Fiers have spent for headamps... its no comfortable thought that it's spent for an euphonic signal corruption...

There are certain traditions in hi-fi, and one of them is the pre-amp. Probably a relict from the turntable era, it's just remained a traditional component of a high-end system, amplifying a high-level signal from a DAC which finally has to get attenuated far below the original signal's strength. It's ridiculous, but it's true! There are products which leave this tradition, such as e.g. Creek's passive «pre-amps» P43 R and OBH-10/12, consisting primarily of an empty box with an input selector switch and a potentiometer. But in view of their prices of $325 and $595, they are barely noticed by people who are ready to pay the ten-fold for a high-end component appropriate to their high demands. Like a Head-Fier's statement: «Why would I want an amp that is so "invisible" I can't even tell if it's in the signal path?»

My own experience with pre-amps and without them (interestingly it was a tubed Conrad Johnson PV2 which sounded closest to the ampless operation) led me to the conlusion that to renounce a pre-amp is a momentous decision, causing lots of pain with the speaker's crossover-network's tuning to prevent them from sounding as dry and meager as described with headphones' direct-path operation.

One thing that's important is the fact that with the turntable as a source the problem was virtually inexistent. O.k., there is a phono-amp in the signal path which can count as a «smoothing» amplification stage, but is there really a considerable difference to the output stage of a DAC? Anyway, I aimed this specific sensitivity of the digital source at its much more rigid phase response compared to analog sources.

But it may in fact be more than that: perhaps a signal from a digital source has a digital signature, meaning a corruption of the original analog signal. Or digital sources provide such a high purity that all electronics', cables' or even the microphones' flaws are that obvious that they need to be filtered out by such a proceeding: the more amplifier stages, the better the filter effect... It's quite obvious that broadcasted digital-sourced music never causes such problems: thus there are lots of distortion pruducts – to name a manifest virtual factor – which are able to mask the signal purity or, on the other hand, produce the ultrasound or some (filter-)unsmeared/non-resonating high-frequency signal components missing in conventional digital sources, respectively... There are lots of possibilities and questions...

smily_headphones1.gif
JaZZ
 
Dec 28, 2002 at 2:43 AM Post #6 of 20
I mentioned the RA1 because it is VERY simple-it is composed of a few resistors, caps, an op-amp and nothing more. Little is in the signal path (compared to other op-amp based amps)


Sure Grado, uses cheap parts- but if you were to DIY one... (like I plan on doing)



By the way...what is the shemetic (spelling) for the passive amp you built?



I have a RCA to Female Mini cable...do you think it would hurt to plug the phones streight in without passive amp?


Thank you...this is most interesting.
 
Dec 28, 2002 at 1:53 PM Post #8 of 20
Hi Jazz
I have run my Beyer 931s direct from my Arcam cd23 but did
not like the sound.
Perhaps the out put stages on many cd players do not like too
much loading as the prime consideration is not to drive anything
requiring too much current.[+ only 2v out]
I think some players such as certain Wadia models put out a healthy 4v +.
It is funny really when one hears all the heavy debate in various
forums regarding the sonic merits of discrete v ic op-amps ,tube etc
that the source [if digital] generally has a ic amplifier by default and not very often something that would find favor with diyers
in their little stand alone headphone amps.
I expect if 2v is enough for ones headphone choice a simple buffer
attenuator circuit would suffice[Infact such a buffer is included in the Headwize projects library].

My portable setup uses and outboard dac with 2v output and
about 100ma current output,this is more than enough to make the
beyers sing[can also drive my own ribbons now as well
eek.gif
but at reduced levels though,so not practical as yet!].

But on the whole I would agree for headphone use it would be
nice to reduce the amplifier chain down to a minimum.


Cheers

Setmenu
smily_headphones1.gif
 
Dec 29, 2002 at 12:48 AM Post #9 of 20
Czilla...
Quote:

...what is the shemetic (spelling) for the passive amp you built?


...do you mean («semantic»?) how I name it? Mmhh...
rolleyes.gif
...in German, my native tongue, it's a «Vorstufe», translated: «preliminary stage». (I hope that's the answer to your question.)
Quote:

...do you think it would hurt to plug the phones straight in without passive amp?


It would hurt your ears – unless you're selecting a passage with very low volume to take an earful of direct-path experience...


bootman...
Quote:

...are you sure that your source alone can put out enough current to drive headphones directly?


...yes, I am. No problem at all, except for the K 501, which sometimes, with low-volume classical passages, is exhausting the potentiometer's headroom.


setmenu...

Quote:

I have run my Beyer 931s direct from my Arcam cd23 but did not like the sound.


...that's not too surprising to me...
tongue.gif

Quote:

Perhaps the output stages on many cd players do not like too much loading as the prime consideration is not to drive anything requiring too much current.


This isn't the case with my Bel Canto DAC2, nor was with my Theta, which can provide 6 volt, BTW: I often connect the passive pre parallel to one or two of my headamps, for comparison purposes. This doesn't affect their sound at all. If the load was too «much» – actually too low – for the DAC's output stage that way, this would be the case.

Do you really draw the conclusion that a less attractive sound is necessarily wrong?
Quote:

I expect if 2v is enough for one's headphone choice a simple buffer attenuator circuit would suffice.


This would exclude the impedance (-response) dependency the plain potentiometer operation shows. But I fear it would slightly affect the sound, because there are some more transistors in the signal path. On the other hand it probably wouldn't make the sound much more euphonic than the one you experienced with your Arcam feeding your headphones directly.
biggrin.gif


Quote:

But on the whole I would agree for headphone use it would be nice to reduce the amplifier chain down to a minimum.


Even at the risk that the sound isn't much different from the direct-path alternative that way?

smily_headphones1.gif
JaZZ
 
Dec 29, 2002 at 2:05 AM Post #10 of 20
When I said shemetic....I meant what you could call "a blue print"
 
Dec 29, 2002 at 5:50 PM Post #11 of 20
Quote:

Originally posted by Czilla9000
When I said shemetic....I meant what you could call "a blue print"


You don't need a schematic or blueprint, resp., to switch a 500 ohm potentiometer into the signal path.
 
Dec 29, 2002 at 7:04 PM Post #12 of 20
Almost all the top commercial headphone amps can supply lots of current. (New Corda amp, Headrooms top amps, Gilmore's DIY amp, Meta42 amps).

There are very few commercial dac's that have that kind of output power.

So if you want a short signal path with few components the best thing to do is probably to modify the output stage on your dac. Add (or replace/modify) the buffer stage and add a volume control infront of the buffer (or however you prefer it).
If the gain is not enough modify the gain stage.

Aos dac is an excellent example of this.

Regarding active preamps. Sometimes they are needed:
Not enough voltage from the source.
Not enough gain in the power amp.
Too long cables.
There's probably more reasons. But you can avoid these problems by mathcing your components properly, but in many cases the easiest solution is to just get a preamp.
 
Dec 29, 2002 at 11:53 PM Post #13 of 20
Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ
You don't need a schematic or blueprint, resp., to switch a 500 ohm potentiometer into the signal path.



But how do I do it? I am thinking of buying a Headroom Switchbox that can be used for the same perpose (I think).

Overall...I think there are two winners coming out of this whole debate.


1. Ety 4- My all time favorite headphone. The fact they sound so good coming out of direct connection is a testament to their accuracy.

2. Tube Amps- I must admit I used to hate the idea of tube amps due to their lack of accuracy. But since of amps seem to euphonically corrupt the signal...you might as well get tube sound.
 
Dec 30, 2002 at 3:19 AM Post #14 of 20
Quote:

Originally posted by geom_tol
...if you want a short signal path with few components the best thing to do is probably to modify the output stage on your dac. Add (or replace/modify) the buffer stage and add a volume control in front of the buffer (or however you prefer it).
If the gain is not enough modify the gain stage.


This is indeed the best way to maintain the signal from the DAC as unaltered as possible to feed your headphones directly – if your CD player/DAC is your only source. And/but I guess the sonic result would be almost the same as with the separate potentiometer after the DAC's output buffer, just without the potential influence on the sonic balance due to the headphones' frequency dependent impedance.

The subject I'm trying to elaborate is in a minor degree to find the way to obtain the least deviation on the CD player's/DAC's output signal but more to show that it represents a benchmark to which headphone amps – using a simple potentiometer – can be compared with. It can be called something like an objective method instead of the common judgements by auditioning amps through one or various headphones – which can produce nothing but a lot of different synergies or asynergies without objective values.

Of course there's nothing wrong with chosing an amp which subjectively sounds best with an available headphone, but if you're able to evaluate the specific amp with the least deviation from the original signal, thus the objectively most neutral one, there are more systematic evaluation strategies possible, e.g. by chosing the most neutral amp first (or risking to listen straight out of your DAC without additional amplification) and then searching for the headphone which (subjectively) sounds most neutral with it.

This is in no way meant to establish a categorical puristic evaluation standard, but to provide a different sight of things. Maybe you can save a lot of money if you don't have to buy the most expensive amp which in fact is the most euphonic one, for ecample. If you're aware that the evaluated amp is in fact rather neutral, you will be less tempted to constantly upgrade. The more so if you're interested in the «objective truth» – hard to obtain with headphones, but actually the original goal of «high fidelity».

Quote:

Originally posted by Czilla9000
But how do I do it? I am thinking of buying a Headroom Switchbox that can be used for the same purpose (I think).


I must confess, I'm not that systematic with such things. – Maybe someone else can explain it better? – There are two stereo channels on the potentiometer, each with three contacts. I measure the two which don't change when the controller is turning – mostly the ones on opposite sides. The remaining one (mostly in the middle) is the slider; one measuring tip of the ohmmeter has contact with it, one with one of the others, this way the resistance is varying according to the controller position. If the controller is turned entirely to the right (full volume), there has to be 0 ohm; if it's showing 500 ohm, I'm taking the other of the two (outside) contacts to pair it with the slider contact, so it surely will show 0 ohm. The slider has to be connected to the headphone (jack)'s plus pole, the contact which measures 0 ohm paired with it is the input plus pole; the remaining contact is the minus pole to both input and headphone (jack).
Quote:

Overall...I think there are two winners coming out of this whole debate.
1. Ety 4 - My all time favorite headphone. The fact they sound so good coming out of direct connection is a testament to their accuracy.
2. Tube Amps - I must admit I used to hate the idea of tube amps due to their lack of accuracy. But since of amps seem to euphonically corrupt the signal...you might as well get tube sound.


You better take my judgements with a grain of salt. Three amps with three working principles are not enough for a serious judgement. There may be more accurate solid-state amps around than my EMP, for instance. And the EMP itself is at least equally euphonic – qualitatively – to the other two amps, just with (quantitatively) less degradation to the original signal (well, that's indeed a quality characteristic, but only in comparison to a restricted amount of alternatives). Nevertheless, if I add my (limited) experience with pre-amps to this, I would say that a tube design is by far not necessarily less accurate than a solid-state design. The latter's obvious superiority with macrodynamics is compensated by the tube's better microdynamics behavior – at least in my subjective estimation.


smily_headphones1.gif
JaZZ
 
Dec 30, 2002 at 7:47 AM Post #15 of 20
Very interesting thread.
I am new to this side of the music enjoyment world (headphone listening). I just got a pair of HD590s (Merry Christmas to me) and from my first inkling of interest, wondered the same thing about that headphone jack on my CD player... I have not invested in a headphone amp as yet (thus, the 590s), so my comparisons are limited to the Yamaha RX-485 receiver/amplifier that the CD player is running thru, and a Panasonic SL-SV600J portable.

I have been listening directly out of the headphone jack on the Yamaha CDC-645. The volume is obviously unmanageable, but not overwhelmingly loud (actually, quite listenable). The volume control idea did occur to me, I found a Rolls Mini Line Mixer with 1-set of RCA inputs & 1- 1/4" input, which provides the volume control. I ran a Y-cable out of the 1/4" CD headphone output to the RCA inputs in the mixer (guitar amp goes into the 1/4" plug).
I initally bought it for the purpose of mixing my guitar amp to a CD/DVD input so I can practice into the headphones (works great BTW). Unfortunately, I was so stoked to find the mixer I didn't notice that it takes the stereo RCA input and turns it into mono on the output!! So, back it will go next week, the good news is they do make a stereo-out version!!!

but I digress, I thought the quality of the sound directly out of the CD player was real good! Far better than after it went thru the amp. Crisper, cleaner highs, better attack, tighter bass. The amp did seem to have more going in the mid section, I don't know if it has a crossover or not, maybe the mids just stood out more with the tamed highs & muddied bass... But, like I said, my comparison is lacking, the RX-485 doesn't have a separate circuit for the headphone out so I assume it is just resisted down from the speaker outs. It is certainly "thicker" sounding.
I does also have a "Pure Direct" mode that bypasses the trebel/bass/louness/balance controls which is closer to the CD direct, but is still not as crisp.
The Panasonic portable doesn't provide quite enough power to push the 590s and sounds very thin.

This is a quote from the Meier Audio site;
<The quality of headphone sockets found on CD-players and amplifiers generally is rather poor. For most audio-companies sound reproduction through headphones has a low priority and the corresponding outputs are made as cheap as possible, if provided at all.>

In light of this, I wonder what it would it take to upgrade the path in a CD/DVD/DAC/SACD to higher quality components and add a volume control? Could this be done within he unit? (yeah, I know, there goes the warranty if it's still that new). If this provides a clean, manageable signal for headphone use, well, WOW, I just saved 300/500/900 scoots!!!

BTW, the 590s have about 40/50 hrs of burn in time.
 

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