[karma]

A great (and hilarious) post, Zanth.

 

[nysulli]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now, Cary, Melos, Ear and HEV90 are pretty old amps around these parts and I am floored at how they are able of not only retaining their oscillating spots at number one but perpetually remain in the top 10, if not the top 5. The killer is the Melos in all of this...it can be had for 200-400 on the forums often (if not yet modded) and then for an extra 400-600 can be taken to astronomical levels, yet I see people dropping 2k+ on amps that don't better it, sound different sure, but don't better it. I don't have as much experience with the PPA as others but it is an outstanding amp and when maxed out is easily one of the best solid state amps ever designed, but it just doesn't garner the fanfare it used to because like goldfish, the memories of the average head-fier are very very short.

thats something else i've noticed more and more as of late, people modding professionally built amps

as for selling a pimeta, again, i think its just that there are so many professionally built amps these days on par with it for its cost, with that comfort of it being something new and "In"

n mahar, i realize the b22 is still really an unknown, just wondering if anyones actually gotten theirs up and running yet, but due to costs, i think i'll be sticking with an m^3 build soon, to qoute another head-fier "just because something new has come out doesn't mean your old gear sounds any worse then it did yesterday"

 

[supermite]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gladcow /img/forum/go_quote.gif whats the other ten percent? or did i just miss another funny.

Oh my... I'm unsure between lack of sleep or something more serious

 

[gpalmer]

It's really sort of sad to see that the PPA has fallen on hard times as it were. The cycle Zanth mentions is the reason for it. It was an excellent, inexpensive amplifier and when properly tweaked it could go far. The smart money in this situation capitalizes on the situation by buying it from the lemmings who are rushing on to the next hot thing.

 

[Sovkiller]

I have tried a lot of amps, tube and SS, and I still owns my PPA, a very sweet sounding amp, second to none...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif ".....What perpetually strikes me as odd is when I read "meet impression" threads and I read things like: Cary + R10 was the best system Maxed out Melos + HP-1 was the best system Ear HP4 + RS-1 was the best system Single Power Maxed out Maestro + R10's was the best system HE90 + HEV90 (Big O!) was the best system HD6x0 + Blockhead/Max v2 was the best system. Sure one will get some fantastic words about nearly anything out there but overall this is the stuff that gets mentioned time and time again...."

With the exception of the Big O, IMO the rest are not in my book the best systems at all...I have heard a lot more humble setups, that I have liked and enjoyed better using these same headphones (R-10, HD6X0, at least...)
Yes indeed they are old amps, but indeed I have heard a lot better amps that have been released recently...

 

[mulveling]

Great post Zanth. I think another component of the problem is that head-fi's user base is so young - and thus all too familiar with the computer hardware / tech gadget scene where, more often than not, newer means better & cheaper. They then carry over this mentality when they stumble upon head-fi and get into building headphone systems. Of course, this doesn't work so well for a mature, "old tech" like amplifiers. I'd imagine that designing them is as much art as it is science.

I've heard a maxed PPA and it's indeed very nice for the money. An old Headamp Gilmore V1 or V2 would be also a steal if the price was right on the FS forums. I love and frequently use the old, oft-forgotten Sugden Headmaster. I *so* love my old-chassis prototype SDS. The Melos SHA-Gold was amazing for the money. I even preferred the original 1997 Max over the 2001 version due to the former's warmer, tubey signature. Here's to the older "classic" amps!

 

[Vladco]

Answer was done before. Isn’t this obvious? Attitude toward group buys was transferred against DIY itself. Who was starting on DIY? Kids which usually didn’t had enough money for decent equipment or by kids reading rave reviews of DIY amps. After selling first amp they were moving further up in skills and equipment.
Headfi is pretty much main authority on headphone relating stuff and right now it steering people away from DYI toward cheap chinese amp. It is confiding DIY to changes of tubes in these amps – probably without changing bias.
PPA is just a victim of it as a whole DIY.
Of cause it’s just my humble opinion.
Vlad

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mulveling /img/forum/go_quote.gif Great post Zanth. I think another component of the problem is that head-fi's user base is so young - and thus all too familiar with the computer hardware / tech gadget scene where, more often than not, newer means better & cheaper. They then carry over this mentality when they stumble upon head-fi and get into building headphone systems. Of course, this doesn't work so well for a mature, "old tech" like amplifiers. I'd imagine that designing them is as much art as it is science. I've heard a maxed PPA and it's indeed very nice for the money. An old Headamp Gilmore V1 or V2 would be also a steal if the price was right on the FS forums. I love and frequently use the old, oft-forgotten Sugden Headmaster. I *so* love my old-chassis prototype SDS. The Melos SHA-Gold was amazing for the money. I even preferred the original 1997 Max over the 2001 version due to the former's warmer, tubey signature. Here's to the older "classic" amps!

Excellent points! I believe this to be so very true. Younger guys come in and are 1) still in the computer mindset 2) more easily susceptible to the hype from manufacturers and overly enthusiastic members and shills. 3) a lot of inexperience 4) misunderstanding of the design principles of electronics (i.e., easily falls for snake oil). Of course anyone can fall for the above, and one just has to read through Audiogon and Audioasylum to realize that the baby boomers seem to act much in the same way and worse...they have the money to throw at the 6 5-6 figure gear.

I can follow along that digital is improving. I'm not expert in the field and I don't follow every new paper that is released, but given how far analogue has come over the last 100 years, it seems that digital has a lot of room to improve given its younger age and the fact that better formats are continually being tinkered with. However, in terms of speakers and amps...the tech hasn't changed all that much, particularly with amps. When SET amps are so very hot on the market these days, a tech that is nearly 100 years old...it really is incredible that something that was incredibly overbuilt 10 years ago could be surpassed so much by something new, particularly if the older unit was upgraded with the current stash of caps and resistors and power supplies.

This is why I really like watching the FS forums over long periods of time and noticing the trends. If a company has a release cycle of about every 6 months notice how the older amps are nearly immediately sold off in anticipation of the new stuff? Insanity! without hearing first? Not with my money thankfully. This also lets those that have a keen eye, grab some wonderful gear for bargain basement prices. Kinda like all those guys who started buying up all the vinyl in the mid-late 80's when people were selling off collections to buy CD's

 

[luidge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zanth /img/forum/go_quote.gif Kinda like all those guys who started buying up all the vinyl in the mid-late 80's when people were selling off collections to buy CD's

That's exactly what i am doing right now (ok 20 years late, but at 22 year old i think i would not have think about doing it in the 80's

) the best trick is to go to dusty place and find dusty people that like me are 20 years late and selling their vinyl stuff to buy cheap chinese stuff that have digital printed all over. But in all seriousness i think that everyone should take a bite of everything, old champion are way cool, but you still got to be open to new stuff to find the old champion of the future, that way you will be able to get the very best of all time...some of you have grammy's at home?

 

[Zanth]

Absolutely. I have no doubt that with better parts, better tolerances etc etc...amps do improve. But, I just think that far too often people sell what they have to flock to the new release and then after 6 months they realize they are not as satisfied as they once were, why is that? Maybe the amp is indeed so spectacular that something else in the chain is now showing its limitations or these people were very happy with their old amp which was actually better (or simply different) and that this new one just doens't do it for them, so they sell, try out new things and a good amount of the time...many fall back to what they had in the beginning.

 

[J-Pak]

Fully agree with Zanth.

Add to the fact that there are more and more limited edition gimmicks to suck people in, and introductory pricing and then you really get the hype machine in full swing. Hell I've almost been sucked in, until I rationalized everything outside Headfi.

That and it seems the younger/newer demographic seem to buy into everyone's every word. Which can get extremely confusing when you look at impressions. IE amp X comes out and someone states a single opinion and someone else says "oh thats just what I wanted to hear I'm going to order" or "thanks I guess it won't sound good with my headphones, I won't be ordering" all based off a single opinion.

 

[Zanth]

Yep, far too many really depend on the opinions of others. Now, I do understand this to a point...if one simply can't audition first, then buying is a tricky thing and one wants as much info as possible and the only info that is available is subjective opinions. The key then would be to ensure that one is comparing their choices in music, sonic preferences etc, with someone that shares the same things. Everyone has different ears, different canals, and different brains. I'm not saying that we all can't hear middle C and/or can't declare it middle C, but rather that some may be more apt in deciphering aspects of sound than others and/or be more susceptible to some aberrations than others. However, I would wager that there are different ways of hearing music and a recent thread dealing with fundamental tones was quite interesting. The science still needs some work but if someone is consistently picking up overtones rather than fundamental tones and vice versa, it could explain the vast differences in opinions regarding a certain phone. Those who are capable of easily switching between fundamental tones and overtones may have the greatest advantage. I'd bet there are quite a few aspects of sound, akin to this small experiment that we have yet to investigate. The point? Try try try to hear stuff first and remember everyone has an opinion. Be happy with what you have, and enjoy the music, that is why we are here right? Your wallet will be healthier for it

 

[khbaur330162]

I believe DAP's opened up all kinds of possibilities for "younger" folks such as myself to gain interest in audio. I honestly would never have gotten into head-fi if it weren't for dapreview. Yet, currently, my "job" is (as it is for many people my age) high school and I work for free. I simply don't have the kind of funds it requires to audition new gear while still keeping the old "standby's" that I've come to love. Also, I find it difficult to explain my justification for selling off old stuff, buying more gear, etc. to my parents who frown upon my hi-fi practice altogether.

I had a lot of pressure from my family to buy the "right" pair of headphones and amplifier the first time around. I thought the K701 and Headfive was going to be the first and last rig I'd ever own and from all the reviews I had read, it was hard to see where I could go wrong. I also had this feeling of "Who am I to say these people are 'correct' or not in their opinions? I have absolutely no experience whatsoever, so how could I possibly know?" I think newbs can get caught up in that insuperiority feeling. Also, concerning your comments about "snake oil" in products; Idk what you're referring to (i.e. boutique caps, high quality resistors/pots, differences in opamps, headphone recabling, oversampling DAC's, Senn veil?) but this hobby, in my opinion, comes off to some extent as "the blind leading the blind." People who have gotten what it is they're looking for no longer need to be here and are subsequently off drinking gin and listening to their R10's. The remaining population are still in the market looking for their niche.

Meh. That's my feeling anyway. It sort of seemed that there was a lot of criticism concerning us "young bloods" so here's my, albeit pitiful, defense.

 

[daggerlee]

Swing this back on topic a bit...how's a PPA compare to a Dynahi?

 

[sbulack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kramer5150 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm really enjoying mine, with the bass boost too. Seems to add air, separation and a sense of detail to a lot of my tunes. It doesn't seem too popular. ????

I bought a HeadSave PPA v1.0A back in December 2003. About a year and a quarter later, I had it retro-fitted with the Larocco Dynamically-Biased Discrete Buffer, which just took its sound to a really new level, especially in the areas of transparency and clarity of sound. I'm still very much enjoying the sound of this amp today, especially with the Grado SR225. Every time that Norm puts out a new Go-Vibe, the sound comes closer and closer to equaling the sound of the PPA, and if I had to buy the PPA today, given the cost/benefit of the Go-Vibe V6, I most likely would not buy a new one. However, having already paid for the PPA, even though each new Go-Vibe comes closer and closer to matching its sound, I still own, use and fully enjoy the PPA for its ever-narrowing edge on the Go-Vibe line.