[Dabears2240]

Quote:

I didn't expect Kanye to start writing like Shakespeare or Lao Tze.
But I do expect songs with a logical, persisting storyline. Even if he only takes the usual themes like love,life, childhood, etc.
 
BTW, did he write the lyrics for Breakdown himself?
If yes, than he is capable of writing good lyrics (if he wants to).

Breakdown?

 

[Confispect]

Exactly, breakdown....also I think your looking for a Lupe type guy check him out his songs have meanings, storyline. Not to say Kanyes doesn't but Lupe goes deep.

 

[Dabears2240]

As far as I know Kanye doesn't have a song called Breakdown?

 

[mobbaddict]

Quote:

Well personally I think rap has evolved since the 80s/90s.  It's moved away from g-funk and gangster rap and is now almost turned into pop music.  Whether or not that is a good thing is debatable, but whenever I go back and listen to 36 Chambers or The Chronic and then listen to Kanye or Kid Cudi you can see a pretty big difference.  The thing about rap is that I'm not looking for it to change my life or anything like that.  I like to listen to rap just to enjoy the music and relax.  It's just fun to listen to.  

I agree. To my ears most of rap music these days has almost nothing to do with rap from the 80/90s. And quite a few hip-hop producers had a lot of influence on mainstream music in the 2000s. I'm still wondering why Michael Jackson missed the opportunity to work with the Neptunes...

 

[andtobis]

I will agree with checking out lupe fiasco. his lyrics have a good meaning and he is one of the strongest rappers lyrically.  I've never heard a song called Breakdown, maybe youre thinking Bittersweet or something.

 

[semisight]

+1 for Lupe. I dislike him as a person because of his sometimes entitled attitude and his somewhat naive activism politics. Still, the man can rhyme. More than that, he can rhyme with a coherent message.
 
Case in point, one of my favorite songs is Little Weapon. Lupe raps about kids in Africa who fight and don't even know what a childhood would be like.
 
Cute Smileless, Heartless, violent
Childhood destroyed, devoid of all childish ways,
Can't write their own names or read the words on their own graves
Think you gangster popped a few rounds,
These kids will come through and murder a whole town,
Then sit back and smoke and watch it burn down,
The grave gets deeper the further we go down
 
Love that last line. It sent shivers down my spine first time I heard it. I'm not much of a rap fan but he's really good.

 

[TheDreamthinker]

I meant 808s & Heartbreak.

 

[Confispect]

Quote:

+1 for Lupe. I dislike him as a person because of his sometimes entitled attitude and his somewhat naive activism politics. Still, the man can rhyme. More than that, he can rhyme with a coherent message.
 
Case in point, one of my favorite songs is Little Weapon. Lupe raps about kids in Africa who fight and don't even know what a childhood would be like.
 
Cute Smileless, Heartless, violent
Childhood destroyed, devoid of all childish ways,
Can't write their own names or read the words on their own graves
Think you gangster popped a few rounds,
These kids will come through and murder a whole town,
Then sit back and smoke and watch it burn down,
The grave gets deeper the further we go down
 
Love that last line. It sent shivers down my spine first time I heard it. I'm not much of a rap fan but he's really good.

The Cool Period.

 

[TheDreamthinker]

Kanye's lyrics are not very deep.....

 

[pollock5]

Quote:

Kanye's lyrics are not very deep.....

 
your favourite film is Iron Man... you don't need a life guard to watch that

 

[andtobis]

Quote:

Quote:

Kanye's lyrics are not very deep.....

 
your favourite film is Iron Man... you don't need a life guard to watch that

haha well said.  they are to an extent. if you want to listen to deep things, get an audio book and listen to something with a deep meaning. this is rap, not shakespeare or any other poetry that you should deeply study to uncover the true meaning of.
 

 

[Uncle Erik]

I don't think people studying english or poetry should be looking at these lyrics and thinking that they should be as good as shakespeares. It would be very tough for a rapper to have lyrics with the intellectual value or wit, like that of shakespeare.  I disagree with the fact that rap ran out of ideas and keeps recycling the old ones.  I find this album to be like nothing else.  Maybe i have been listening to the wrong albums, but just the beats and the musicality behind the album was pretty different.  Just my opinion, i'm not a english major, nor am i studying poetry or anything like that, so take of it what you will

Actually, Shakespeare was a pop phenemenon in his time. Yes, he wrote well and there are deeper meanings, but his plays were more the equivalent of a popular movie good enough to win a Best Picuture Oscar. Plus, there are all sorts of dirty jokes and topical references in there.

When I look for serious depth, I turn to the great novelists and poets. Some essayists are wonderful, too.

What I mean by depth and sophistication is not "serious" subject matter. You can discuss cancer or genocide or anything serious in a lightweight way with no meaning.

First, the author has to have an understanding of all the clichés, stereotypes and prevailing common wisdom, then avoids those. As you'll notice, Kanye drinks deeply of all three. Does he really say anything about life, music, the black experience, etc. that hasn't been said thousands of times before?

Next, the text should have several layers of meaning. It should have a plain meaning, but then should subtly comment on several other layers of understanding. The best work can be teased apart to reveal several meanings. The meanings should be consistent and ultimately add up to a greater insight than reading it straight. This is not easy to do, and is why you'll find the great authors laboring for years over a few hundred pages. It also takes formal training or an astute mentor to unlock a lot of literature. That might come across as snobbish, but like anything worthwhile, it pays off. Once you know how to analyze a work, you get a huge amount of entertainment from it. On one level, you get a great story. Then you get to pull out all the other meanings and symbolism. A good novel or book of poetry can be gone back to for a lifetime, finding something new each time. The same is true, by the way, of classical music. If you learn a little music theory and the basics of composition, you can find new things with every listen. You develop a relationship with the great works.

This is what bothers me about Kanye (and lots of popular music) being labeled as "great." It is not. A listen or two extracts all the meaning, making it boring after awhile.

I am not saying that pop music cannot be enjoyed. I like a lot of it. But I tend to consume it for awhile, then move onto something else. Truly great work keeps you coming back for a lifetime.

If you get the chance, take a class or two on literature. This is not some exclusive club - I think anyone can learn to appreciate great works. Once you have the tools to disassemble the good stuff, you'll have a blast. No, literature isn't stuffy or a bore. Most of it was controversial at one point - you'll find all sorts of sex, violence, subversion, blasphemy, and much else.

 

[pollock5]

how can you compare an album that has not even been out two months to works that have been round for hundreds of years? your right in saying that Shakespeare was it's pop culture of the time but so was Jazz and now look at the 'high brow' respect it gets. you can't just paint all art forms with the same brush, i think that Kanye falls into more the Warhol Popart field and you can't say that pop art didn't both make a major influence on art at the time and still today and that it isn't highly respected. music is very subjective you can't just have one set of terms to determine if it's worthy of being good or not. if you find that Kanye's lyrics speak to you in a personal way, thats great! there's nothing better then finding a text that you can relate to, and if you like him because it's fun to dance around to that to is great because it again brings you joy. and remember he not only writes lyrics put produces the music, that talent of his has seemed to left out of this discussion.     

 

[andtobis]

Quote:

Actually, Shakespeare was a pop phenemenon in his time. Yes, he wrote well and there are deeper meanings, but his plays were more the equivalent of a popular movie good enough to win a Best Picuture Oscar. Plus, there are all sorts of dirty jokes and topical references in there.When I look for serious depth, I turn to the great novelists and poets. Some essayists are wonderful, too.What I mean by depth and sophistication is not "serious" subject matter. You can discuss cancer or genocide or anything serious in a lightweight way with no meaning.First, the author has to have an understanding of all the clichés, stereotypes and prevailing common wisdom, then avoids those. As you'll notice, Kanye drinks deeply of all three. Does he really say anything about life, music, the black experience, etc. that hasn't been said thousands of times before?Next, the text should have several layers of meaning. It should have a plain meaning, but then should subtly comment on several other layers of understanding. The best work can be teased apart to reveal several meanings. The meanings should be consistent and ultimately add up to a greater insight than reading it straight. This is not easy to do, and is why you'll find the great authors laboring for years over a few hundred pages. It also takes formal training or an astute mentor to unlock a lot of literature. That might come across as snobbish, but like anything worthwhile, it pays off. Once you know how to analyze a work, you get a huge amount of entertainment from it. On one level, you get a great story. Then you get to pull out all the other meanings and symbolism. A good novel or book of poetry can be gone back to for a lifetime, finding something new each time. The same is true, by the way, of classical music. If you learn a little music theory and the basics of composition, you can find new things with every listen. You develop a relationship with the great works.This is what bothers me about Kanye (and lots of popular music) being labeled as "great." It is not. A listen or two extracts all the meaning, making it boring after awhile.I am not saying that pop music cannot be enjoyed. I like a lot of it. But I tend to consume it for awhile, then move onto something else. Truly great work keeps you coming back for a lifetime.If you get the chance, take a class or two on literature. This is not some exclusive club - I think anyone can learn to appreciate great works. Once you have the tools to disassemble the good stuff, you'll have a blast. No, literature isn't stuffy or a bore. Most of it was controversial at one point - you'll find all sorts of sex, violence, subversion, blasphemy, and much else.

I understand what youre saying.  I think you and I have different preferences in music.  For example I don't like to find the deeper meaning of Kanyes music.  I just like to listen to it and take it as it is.  I also believe that great lyrics do not mean a great album.  I believe his lyrics were good, but what made this album great was the musical aspect of it.  I do like to look at the meanings of certain lines, but to me if a song or lyric has little meaning then i can still listen to it. However, everything is relative.  To be honest, this past album can't be considered popular music.  Now, popular music is techno beats mixed in with random words. An example of popular music would the the Black Eyed Peas song "The Time(Dirty Bit)". Which literally has the word dirty bit thrown in the song in random spots.  Or California Gurls, which is a fine song, but literally has no deeper meaning other than a couple of sexual references.  Kanye at least manages to produce good(maybe not great) lyrics, and amazing beats.  But once again everything is relative and very much up to personal preference.

 

[Ambience]

His new album is the only newish rap album ive actually liked lately.