[Calexico]

Distortion?  I don't hear any that isn't intentional...

 

[andtobis]

recovery didn't get as much positive criticism probably because its not as multidimensional, or it doesnt have as many layers.  plus eminem rarely gets amazing reviews

 

[Dabears2240]

Quote:

Distortion?  I don't hear any that isn't intentional...

Try listening through Monster in a quiet area with headphones.  Specifically the chorus.  Listen to it a couple times and you'll be able to pick it up

 

[Zarathustra19]

I'm sorry, I don't mean this reply to be a trolling reply in the least, though my previous post may have held a sardonic disdain for Mr. West.  However, I am genuinely curious how his lyrics can be considered good in any sense of the word.  Below, find an excerpt from "Gorgeous" (selected at random):
 
Penitentiary chances, the devil dances
and eventually answers to the call of Autumn
all of them fallin' for the love of ballin'
got caught with 30 rocks, the cop look like Alec Baldwin
inter century anthems based off inner city tantrums
based off the way we was branded
face it, Jerome get more time than Brandon
and at the airport they check all through my bag and tell me that it's random
but we stay winning, this week has been a bad massage
I need a happy ending and a new beginning
and a new fitted and some job opportunities thats lucrative

This the real world, homie, school finished
they done stole your dreams, you dunno who did it
I treat the cash the way the government treats AIDS
I won't be satisfied til all my n------ get it, get it?
 
 
I mean, I see the popular culture references (30 rock for example, which made me smile before I continued with the line and the rest of the track.  I don't see any coherent theme or stylistic merit, or even a particularly interesting rhyme scheme.  I study poetry as a requirement for my Masters degree and this just does not impress me.  I look at D.H. Lawrence, Shakespeare, Poe, Langston Hughes, William Carlos Williams, and I'm more impressed with even E.E. Cummings than I am with Kanye.  He seems to rhyme whatever he feels like.  If these lyrics are witty, I must say that I'm disappointed with what wit has been degraded to. 
 
I'll temper this post with the fact that I listen to bands such as Gorgasm and Disgorgement, both of whose lyrics are simply disgusting and make no sense whatsoever.  However, they mean for the lyrics to be shocking and they go well with the uncomfortable or even disturbing feeling which the distorted guitars and croaking vocals produce.  I don't see any connection with Kanye and his style of music other than its seemingly deliberate attempt to destroy poetry and the English language in general.
 
This is obviously my own opinion and feelings toward the artist and *most* of the genre, but there is some rap I'm impressed with, but none of the artists I  enjoy are counted as "gods" or "geniuses" for their impressive command of lyrical style or generic evolution, so please enlighten me as to what makes Mr. West so good.  Is it relative to the rest of the genre or am I missing something?

 

[Dabears2240]

Quote:

I'm sorry, I don't mean this reply to be a trolling reply in the least, though my previous post may have held a sardonic disdain for Mr. West.  However, I am genuinely curious how his lyrics can be considered good in any sense of the word.  Below, find an excerpt from "Gorgeous" (selected at random):
 
Penitentiary chances, the devil dances
and eventually answers to the call of Autumn
all of them fallin' for the love of ballin'
got caught with 30 rocks, the cop look like Alec Baldwin
inter century anthems based off inner city tantrums
based off the way we was branded
face it, Jerome get more time than Brandon
and at the airport they check all through my bag and tell me that it's random
but we stay winning, this week has been a bad massage
I need a happy ending and a new beginning
and a new fitted and some job opportunities thats lucrative

This the real world, homie, school finished
they done stole your dreams, you dunno who did it
I treat the cash the way the government treats AIDS
I won't be satisfied til all my n------ get it, get it?
 
 
I mean, I see the popular culture references (30 rock for example, which made me smile before I continued with the line and the rest of the track.  I don't see any coherent theme or stylistic merit, or even a particularly interesting rhyme scheme.  I study poetry as a requirement for my Masters degree and this just does not impress me.  I look at D.H. Lawrence, Shakespeare, Poe, Langston Hughes, William Carlos Williams, and I'm more impressed with even E.E. Cummings than I am with Kanye.  He seems to rhyme whatever he feels like.  If these lyrics are witty, I must say that I'm disappointed with what wit has been degraded to. 
 
I'll temper this post with the fact that I listen to bands such as Gorgasm and Disgorgement, both of whose lyrics are simply disgusting and make no sense whatsoever.  However, they mean for the lyrics to be shocking and they go well with the uncomfortable or even disturbing feeling which the distorted guitars and croaking vocals produce.  I don't see any connection with Kanye and his style of music other than its seemingly deliberate attempt to destroy poetry and the English language in general.
 
This is obviously my own opinion and feelings toward the artist and *most* of the genre, but there is some rap I'm impressed with, but none of the artists I  enjoy are counted as "gods" or "geniuses" for their impressive command of lyrical style or generic evolution, so please enlighten me as to what makes Mr. West so good.  Is it relative to the rest of the genre or am I missing something?

 
Those lyrics aren't all that bad, and have a theme to them.  And are you really disapointed that Kanye's lyrics aren't as good as Skakespeare?  Seems like you have your expectations set a little too high.  And as to what makes Kanye so great is that he produces all of his music.  I dare you to name any other rapper who is able to make music as well as Kanye(that produces and raps). 

 

[Uncle Erik]

 
Those lyrics aren't all that bad, and have a theme to them.  And are you really disapointed that Kanye's lyrics aren't as good as Skakespeare?  Seems like you have your expectations set a little too high.  And as to what makes Kanye so great is that he produces all of his music.  I dare you to name any other rapper who is able to make music as well as Kanye(that produces and raps). 

No, those lyrics are horrible. If you want to go postmodern, they reveal Kayne to be petty, smallminded and egotistical. Even if you admire him, I bet he would sneer at you in person. Not someone to be admired. I've been through plenty of literature, too, (my first degree is in English literature) and find nothing of value there. As for poetry, I'm a rabid Wallace Stevens fan. Each poem is a puzzle that requires many readings and some analysis to untangle.

A theme does not mean sophistication. The best material can be read on several levels and delivers a number of meanings, all relevant. That takes skill and a lot of forethought. Kanye, apparently, doesn't have the intellectual chops.

Also, topical material does not hold up. It will sound dated within a few years. Lyrics that stand the test of time are not like this.

Are you serious about comparing rappers to Kanye? None of them are very good. It would be like trying to decide between a Whopper and a Big Mac for a Michelin rating. I haven't heard anyone in the genre who cuts it as serious art. They're all in it for the paycheck. Which is fine, by the way. I'll eat a Big Mac now and then and enjoy it. But I certainly won't try to convince others about how a Value Meal is the equivalent of a fine restaurant.

 

[Dabears2240]

Quote:

No, those lyrics are horrible. If you want to go postmodern, they reveal Kayne to be petty, smallminded and egotistical. Even if you admire him, I bet he would sneer at you in person. Not someone to be admired, in any form.Also, topical material does not hold up. It will sound dated within a few years. Lyrics that stand the test of time are not like this.Are you serious about comparing rappers to Kanye? None of them are very good. It would be like trying to decide between a Whopper and a Big Mac for a Michelin rating. I haven't heard anyone in the genre who cuts it as serious art. They're all in it for the paycheck. Which is fine, by the way. I'll eat a Big Mac now and then and enjoy it. But I certainly won't try to convince others about how a Value Meal is the equivalent of a fine restaurant.

1.  I do not look up to Kanye as a role model at all.  I could care less how he lives his life or what he would do if I met him.
2.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjdsQLzaZ-o, not saying this is the work of a poet but it is a very good song.
3.  It's pretty clear to me that you don't like rap music at all, and leads me to believe that you have either formed your opinion based upon mainstream rap or simply do not like the genre at all.  
4.  Not all rap artists are in it for the paycheck.  You are aware that there are plenty of rappers that get no media attention, have no record deal, and don't make ridiculous amounts of money; right?
 
 
And I kind of want to post some great rap songs ITT that qualify as true art, but I'll try to stay on topic.    

 

[Uncle Erik]

No, I actually enjoy a bit of rap from the early days. I was around in the late 1980s when it started coming out and was a fan. It was genuinely new and different. Exciting, too. But then it just stagnated. Nothing new came out and it has been little else than repetition for 20 years. I think that's sad. You'll hear plenty of progression in 20 years of jazz, rock, classical, or almost anything else.

I look into all genres for interesting music. When something like this gets rave reviews, I check it out. Kanye is profoundly disappointing. It's like a 15 year-old is trapped in an adult body. There just isn't any depth or emotional resonance. I watched that YouTube vid and it left me cold. There's nothing there. If you think there's prejudice, I'm a huge fan of jazz, traditional African music, Afropop (www.afropop.org) and all sorts of folk music. The problem with rap is that it ran out of ideas about 20 years ago. Same old, same old. The old stuff is still worth listening to, but the new stuff is a derivative snore. The same thing seems to have happened to metal.

As for artists, everyone, in every genre, is in it for the money. Rap just recycles the same formula. The artists are just using the same business model. My current firm and the previous one dealt in some entertainment. I've worked on contracts for some recognizable names. Let me assure you, it is all business. From what they endorse to where they appear, it is just the same as another client that manufactures fans to ventilate buildings.

I have met a few celebs, including rappers. They're like any celeb. Usually polished, personable and all business. I have yet to run across a tortured artist type.

 

[andtobis]

I don't think people studying english or poetry should be looking at these lyrics and thinking that they should be as good as shakespeares. It would be very tough for a rapper to have lyrics with the intellectual value or wit, like that of shakespeare.  I disagree with the fact that rap ran out of ideas and keeps recycling the old ones.  I find this album to be like nothing else.  Maybe i have been listening to the wrong albums, but just the beats and the musicality behind the album was pretty different.  Just my opinion, i'm not a english major, nor am i studying poetry or anything like that, so take of it what you will

 

[Dabears2240]

Quote:

No, I actually enjoy a bit of rap from the early days. I was around in the late 1980s when it started coming out and was a fan. It was genuinely new and different. Exciting, too. But then it just stagnated. Nothing new came out and it has been little else than repetition for 20 years. I think that's sad. You'll hear plenty of progression in 20 years of jazz, rock, classical, or almost anything else.

I look into all genres for interesting music. When something like this gets rave reviews, I check it out. Kanye is profoundly disappointing. It's like a 15 year-old is trapped in an adult body. There just isn't any depth or emotional resonance. I watched that YouTube vid and it left me cold. There's nothing there. If you think there's prejudice, I'm a huge fan of jazz, traditional African music, Afropop (www.afropop.org) and all sorts of folk music. The problem with rap is that it ran out of ideas about 20 years ago. Same old, same old. The old stuff is still worth listening to, but the new stuff is a derivative snore. The same thing seems to have happened to metal.

As for artists, everyone, in every genre, is in it for the money. Rap just recycles the same formula. The artists are just using the same business model. My current firm and the previous one dealt in some entertainment. I've worked on contracts for some recognizable names. Let me assure you, it is all business. From what they endorse to where they appear, it is just the same as another client that manufactures fans to ventilate buildings.

I have met a few celebs, including rappers. They're like any celeb. Usually polished, personable and all business. I have yet to run across a tortured artist type.

Well personally I think rap has evolved since the 80s/90s.  It's moved away from g-funk and gangster rap and is now almost turned into pop music.  Whether or not that is a good thing is debatable, but whenever I go back and listen to 36 Chambers or The Chronic and then listen to Kanye or Kid Cudi you can see a pretty big difference.  The thing about rap is that I'm not looking for it to change my life or anything like that.  I like to listen to rap just to enjoy the music and relax.  It's just fun to listen to.  

 

[Calexico]

I guess the difference is I like hearing Kanye being an asshole.
Also, I can't understand what progress other genres have experienced that rap hasn't.  I've seen the argument a few times but I don't really listen to much old music so I don't see it.  All I know is that A Tribe Called Quest sounds completely different from Kanye West, whether or not that's a good thing.

 

[TheDreamthinker]

I didn't expect Kanye to start writing like Shakespeare or Lao Tze.
But I do expect songs with a logical, persisting storyline. Even if he only takes the usual themes like love,life, childhood, etc.
 
BTW, did he write the lyrics for Breakdown himself?
If yes, than he is capable of writing good lyrics (if he wants to).

 

[Francisco]

Wasn't he the head of the Iluminati?

 

[Confispect]

Recovery has a deeper meaning....hmmm and what from your perspective is that?

 

[TheDreamthinker]

what do you mean?