[Bokyung]

Quote:

Let me get this straight.

I should have to buy a dozen or so players every year, costing a couple thousand total, so I can evaluate the EQ of each.

 
 
Yes you should, wouldn't that be something. 

 

[lee730]

I 100% agree with you there. That is why I got a 3 year warranty from square trade. I also got accidental damage care on it so hey if I break it I get refunded the $270.00 or is it a bit less? for the hifiman + 10% on top of that if I take it via amazon gift card. I've already used my warranty from them on my IE8s and they are legit. Even from a non auth retailer they will honor warranty. And that little extra money spent (maybe 10% or a bit more of the cost of the actual item itself) is well worth the years of piece of mind. So even if it breaks within 3 years time I get my money back for a free upgrade . I've done this with all my audio purchases so far and its very much worth the piece of mind. The deal with my sflo2 is the same. I may just end up returning it and picking up my friends used unit which has some comedic damage but works perfectly well. I can just use the warranty I got from square trade for it if it breaks within the 3 years period and I'm still covered .
Quote:

I just had no faith in the 601 lasting for any length of time, and to me, the SQ difference was not enough to risk keeping a player that went south after the warranty ran out. Don't get me wrong, I liked the sound ok, but could not deal with the hassle factor. When I am at home, not using the IP4, the new Sony player and the iPod (or even the iPhone) with an LOD/amp both sound fantastic with my JH5s, as good as either of those off-brand DAPs. I don't disagree that SQ was very good with both, but not worth the headaches to me. I don't have the patience to send back stuff 2-3 times.
 
Also interested in the X3, as I have two 16GB micro HD cards on hand (using them with Studio I, another excellent player that is holding up over time).
 


 

 

 

[Parall3l]

Quote:

 
Also interested in the X3, 

 

The X3 is going replace my 8GB ipod touch, which will be given to my dad. 

 Digital out is pretty rare with consumer products, the max storage supported on the X3 is 64GB I think. When the extra non-audio related features on iPod is not needed, the X3 is pretty attractive.

 

[lee730]

Quote:

The X3 is going replace my 8GB ipod touch, which will be given to my dad. 

 Digital out is pretty rare with consumer products, the max storage supported on the X3 is 64GB I think. When the extra non-audio related features on iPod is not needed, the X3 is pretty attractive.

It will only support the 64 gb storage for sure if the 64 gb card released (hopefully within this year) is SDHC and not SDXC I think. Otherwise it may not work due to the lack of that extra pin connector. If that is the case then its a let down. I mean you could always swap out 32 gb cards but for me that a pain-in-the-ass and the fact that these micro SD cards are so small and fragile (you can easily lose them and break them).
 
 

 

[flaming_june]

lol at all the pointless arguing.
 
Quote:

The X3 is going replace my 8GB ipod touch, which will be given to my dad. 

 Digital out is pretty rare with consumer products, the max storage supported on the X3 is 64GB I think. When the extra non-audio related features on iPod is not needed, the X3 is pretty attractive.

That's what I'm hoping for as well, but you know when they cram so much and sell it for 150, something's prolly in deficiency.  There will prolly be bumps at launch as well with bugs or physical problems.  But I do hope they make a good player.
 

 

[lee730]

Quote:

LOL at the idea that arguing over gear could be "pointed" on HF. But good to see you stay above the fray. It's fun to discuss and debate here, releases the tension of real problems. Copping a holier-than-thou attitude serves no real purpose.
 
Meantime, some iPods, not all, sound very very good, and some of the Cowon players can as well.

Did I say something offensive? lol

 

[Uncle Erik]

wind016, I don't know what you're getting at.

I do not use EQ at home. I do not use EQ on the iPod. I do not use EQ as a matter of principle.

I don't use EQ because the source and amp should be flat. If you do not enjoy the frequency response you get, then you are using the wrong IEMs, headphones or speakers. If that's the case, sell them and buy ones with a frequency response you do enjoy.

I know it's cool to be a Fashionable Apple Hater (and don't let me get in the way of hipster posturing) but the EQ just doesn't matter. Price, reliability and storage are important. The iPod is decent, plugs into my car's stock stereo, and sounds fine. I'll probably replace it at the end of the year if I can get more storage on one. I plan to convert to lossless, so I'm looking for extra room.

Ultimately, a DAP is a disposable consumer good. It's not a durable good. My power amp is a durable good. It was made ~1985, and I plan to recap the power supply the next time I retube it. I do not expect to be using my iPod in 2035. Also, I spent less on that amp than on the three iPods I've owned so far.

 

[wind016]

 
Quote:

wind016, I don't know what you're getting at.

I do not use EQ at home. I do not use EQ on the iPod. I do not use EQ as a matter of principle.

I don't use EQ because the source and amp should be flat. If you do not enjoy the frequency response you get, then you are using the wrong IEMs, headphones or speakers. If that's the case, sell them and buy ones with a frequency response you do enjoy.

I know it's cool to be a Fashionable Apple Hater (and don't let me get in the way of hipster posturing) but the EQ just doesn't matter. Price, reliability and storage are important. The iPod is decent, plugs into my car's stock stereo, and sounds fine. I'll probably replace it at the end of the year if I can get more storage on one. I plan to convert to lossless, so I'm looking for extra room.

Ultimately, a DAP is a disposable consumer good. It's not a durable good. My power amp is a durable good. It was made ~1985, and I plan to recap the power supply the next time I retube it. I do not expect to be using my iPod in 2035. Also, I spent less on that amp than on the three iPods I've owned so far.

That was pretty much the point I was making. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough. I wasn't home. I was only criticizing the Ipod EQ and nothing else. If you don't bother with EQ, then there really is no point and there are plenty of people who'll have the same opinion. The Cowon simply isn't worth it if you don't take advantage of the EQ. Nothing else about the Cowon makes it really more competitive against an Ipod. However, the Cowon's hardware EQ compares and trumps some mastering level EQs that I've been using (Duende and PSP).
 
However, I'll have to disagree (as I usually do on Head-fi) about the use of EQ. There are very few headphones that I have ever heard that were truly flat enough to not gain much benefit from a transparent EQ. A lot of them could be bright, have recessed mid range, or have bloated bass in one level or another. I'm particularly treble sensitive in the morning, so one permanent sound is no good for me.
 

 

[rawrster]

I will disagree a bit about the Cowon. i had a Cowon not too long ago before I sold it and i did not use the EQ. i got it for the battery life and screen. It also was nice having buttons on the side and a headphone out on the bottom which is my preference.

 

[lee730]

Quote:

I will disagree a bit about the Cowon. i had a Cowon not too long ago before I sold it and i did not use the EQ. i got it for the battery life and screen. It also was nice having buttons on the side and a headphone out on the bottom which is my preference.

Generally if I don't have to eq I'd really rather not have to. In all honesty I'd love to find a pair of IEMs and headphones that won't require me to eq at all. Then I'd have found the perfect IEMs/phones.
 

 

[Kimmy7]

hey everyone : ) i listen to most of my portable devices through the Ultrasone ED8. I have both the Cowon J3 and an Ipad 2 with EQu installed. I like to tweak both players to try and create a more lively space while trying to keep the overall sound balanced. I've had the J3 over a year and the Ipad 2 about a month. First i would like to say the preset equalisers on the Ipad 2 and the I devices sound terrible to me. They seem to always have distortion and have an unpleasant sound. 
 
Firstly with my cowon J3, i love the sound quality and the warmth of the sound. I was convinced that this was the best sound out of a portable i would ever hear. (without headphone and other modifications). The biggest positive of the BBE equaliser to me, was that it could make every headphone sound much better. At the same time, while listening through my ED8 headphones, i felt like i was losing some of the details or clarity by using the BBE equaliser. Overall i'm still really happy with the J3/
 
With the Ipad 2, i never thought that i would be using it much as a music listening device. But i decided to go ahead and download EQu equaliser from the app store, and after a few hours of tweaking, i could not believe what i was hearing. Very lively sound, but without sounding artificial. I do most of my listening on my Ipad 2 now, when i can. 
 
I think the Ipad 2 with a tweaked EQu eqauliser sounds better than the J3 to me. Saying that, i can't say there is a huge difference. It's definitely just a matter of taste. However, i can safely say, this is the most happy and satisfied out of a device. In my opinion, I loved the BBE settings, however the hint of artificial sound is my only gripe with it. Truly with the EQu, i just find myself listening to music instead of trying to tweak the eq over and over again to get my perfect sound. 

 

[Achmedisdead]

Quote:

hey everyone : ) i listen to most of my portable devices through the Ultrasone ED8. I have both the Cowon J3 and an Ipad 2 with EQu installed. I like to tweak both players to try and create a more lively space while trying to keep the overall sound balanced. I've had the J3 over a year and the Ipad 2 about a month. First i would like to say the preset equalisers on the Ipad 2 and the I devices sound terrible to me. They seem to always have distortion and have an unpleasant sound. 
 
Firstly with my cowon J3, i love the sound quality and the warmth of the sound. I was convinced that this was the best sound out of a portable i would ever hear. (without headphone and other modifications). The biggest positive of the BBE equaliser to me, was that it could make every headphone sound much better. At the same time, while listening through my ED8 headphones, i felt like i was losing some of the details or clarity by using the BBE equaliser. Overall i'm still really happy with the J3/
 
With the Ipad 2, i never thought that i would be using it much as a music listening device. But i decided to go ahead and download EQu equaliser from the app store, and after a few hours of tweaking, i could not believe what i was hearing. Very lively sound, but without sounding artificial. I do most of my listening on my Ipad 2 now, when i can. 
 
I think the Ipad 2 with a tweaked EQu eqauliser sounds better than the J3 to me. Saying that, i can't say there is a huge difference. It's definitely just a matter of taste. However, i can safely say, this is the most happy and satisfied out of a device. In my opinion, I loved the BBE settings, however the hint of artificial sound is my only gripe with it. Truly with the EQu, i just find myself listening to music instead of trying to tweak the eq over and over again to get my perfect sound. 

There is a very fine line with the Cowon players, between getting the sound just right and having it end up sounding unnatural. And the BBE effect in particular, I don't use at all on my D2, and only on 1 or at most 2 on my i9.BBE and 3D Surround are what make things sound artificial, IMO.
 

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

This is how I feel about the iPhone 4, using EQu if necessary (not always the case, depending on the IEM. For me, the iPhone4 with the JH5s, no EQ required. But not so with other IEMs). I don't care if the J3 has hardware EQ and the iPhone has software EQ, the latter remains preferable. Enough that I didn't keep the J3, but that's a personal taste thing.
 

I don't know if Cowon actually has such a thing called 'hardware EQ' or not, but there is no special hardware requirement (chip) to put BBE onto any modern DAP that come with a half decent controller / SoC. Most (if not all) BBE on DAP are software based. You can call in a BBE engineer to put the BBE code into your firmware as long as you pay BBE the royalty. All you need to be sure is that the controller / SoC has enough processing speed to execute the BBE code because it is basically an extra algorithm that applies to the data stream.
 

 

[wind016]

BBE is not the same as it is on my J3 than as a plugin. Not even close. Sorry.

 

[wind016]

 
Quote:

Could be, but maybe you can supply some official Cowon link/proof that clearly says the Cowon EQ system and BBE are a hardware, not software, implementation, while the others are just plug-ins. You say it as if it's fact, so it would be good to see that info. Even if it is true, guess I agree with Kimmy7 re the EQu app being more than enough if and when I need an EQ on the iPhone4, though he/she has the iPad (and a J3 as well). I know you have both the J3 and the iPhone, but to me, the iPhone is a better sounding music player.
 
quote:


 

 
http://www.jetaudio.com/products/cowon/s9/
EQ is hardware calibrated and upgraded BBE+ is "optimized for portable devices."
 
AnythingbutIpod also reaffirms that most MP3 players produced by Cowon uses hardware EQ. I haven't heard of one that doesn't yet. If you really want to know, I guess I could try to get a Korean friend of mine to start searching for me since I can't read Korean. Cowon's not exactly that famous outside Korea as you know.
 
I really suggest people try to use the BBE+ a bit more. My settings are usually on 10 and I balance out the frequency response change with the EQ.