[Steve999]

You got it. Simple. Don't spend too much time around here.

You know what? It seems like folks on here love to disagree just for the sake of disagreeing. Oh well, to each their own!

 

[Glmoneydawg]

You don't use Fletcher Munson when you are calibrating your EQ. You apply it on playback once your system is calibrated. Amplified live music is calibrated too. Every venue is different. Amphitheaters spend a lot of money figuring out optimized response for their particular acoustics.

Gotcha.....every room I've had seems to have a volume level that sounds correct...but that level has been a little different in each room....nothing against eq'ing (my speakers have active bass management, which seems like genius to me).....but if i can avoid messing with the original recording i call it a win.

 

[castleofargh]

Thank you! Tell the same to the 'pros' on here. I also on occasion bump up the lows, maybe 3-4dB around 50Hz, but that's only for moderate playback volumes.

try to explain why your equal loudness contour being in effect for everything you hear all day long, suddenly needs to be directly compensated when you listen to music on a playback system? do you actually believe that if you reverse EQ to your equal loudness contour, the music will sound neutral to you?
you really have issues explaining what you mean, or you're mistaken. either way the ball is in your camp and so far I vote "mistaken".

 

[Steve999]

SonicTruth. .. leave it alone. I don't get it either.

 

[castleofargh]

You got it. Simple. Don't spend too much time around here. They're not as smart as they think they are.

if you understand his idea, explain it in a rational way so we can all understand too. otherwise stop it with the out of spite comments against this section or the people in it.

 

[Steve999]

I have no spite, my good man.

if you understand his idea, explain it in a rational way so we can all understand too. otherwise stop it with the out of spite comments against this section or the people in it.

 

[bigshot]

Gotcha.....every room I've had seems to have a volume level that sounds correct...but that level has been a little different in each room.

My Yamaha AVR has a setting that applies loudness dynamically automatically. I'm sure most systems have that.

SonicTruth. .. leave it alone. I don't get it either.

Did you read my post? I've explained it three times in two different threads now. Should I explain it again?

 

[Steve999]

That’s your choice.

My Yamaha AVR has a setting that applies loudness dynamically automatically. I'm sure most systems have that.



Did you read my post? I've explained it three times in two different threads now. Should I explain it again?

 

[gregorio]

[1] I understand. So you pull down the frequencies from 2-4 khz to make up for the ear's lack of sensitivity at higher and lower frequencies at comfortable listening-room volumes. It seems like a very efficient way of getting it done.
[2] People have been using the Fletcher/Munson curve you cite to for that purpose for decades. I think the Fletcher-Munson curve has been around since the 1930s. [2a] It appears to me that if anything your correction is relatively modest and conservative.

1. It's really not a difficult concept to grasp! This part of your statement is correct but the next part ...
2. What people? This is the crux of the matter! Do you not realise that the artists and engineers creating the recordings are human beings too? And, as they are human beings, they too are subject to the Fletcher/Munson human being loudness contours and therefore, the Fletcher/Munson curves have ALREADY been compensated for in the recording itself! So, what people are you talking about? If it's the people creating the recordings, then "yes" I agree. If it's those who are reproducing recordings (consumers) then I do NOT agree because the consumer would be effectively correcting/compensating for the F/M curves twice, applying double the amount of correction/compensation!!
2a. This statement is therefore not just incorrect but the exact opposite of correct!!

G

 

[TheSonicTruth]

You got it. Simple. Don't spend too much time around here.

Let's be fair: They are smart, and they are trained. It's just that their titles, and the internal politics of the music business, get to their heads sometimes. As reasonably knowledgeable 'outsiders' to that world, it sometimes takes folks like us to understand that and challenge certain models and principles.

 

[TheSonicTruth]

try to explain why your equal loudness contour being in effect for everything you hear all day long, suddenly needs to be directly compensated when you listen to music on a playback system? do you actually believe that if you reverse EQ to your equal loudness contour, the music will sound neutral to you?
you really have issues explaining what you mean, or you're mistaken. either way the ball is in your camp and so far I vote "mistaken".

First, explain what you mean by "reverse EQ to your equal loudness contour". And to your final sentence: I am admittedly no Dick Cavett, so it might be my choice of words.

 

[gregorio]

[1] It's just that their titles, and the internal politics of the music business, get to their heads sometimes.
[2] As reasonably knowledgeable 'outsiders' to that world, [2a] it sometimes takes folks like us to understand that and challenge certain models and principles.

1. The only thing that ultimately "gets to our heads" is client and consumer demand; what clients demand of engineers and what the clients' customers buy. Another extremely simple concept you seem incapable of grasping.

2. How does not being able to grasp extremely simple concepts make you "reasonably knowledgeable"? Pretty much without exception you've demonstrated that you're missing huge chunks of knowledge and the knowledge you do have you've largely misunderstood, misinterpreted and are misrepresenting! Again, how does that make you "reasonably knowledgeable", surely it makes you quite the opposite doesn't it?
2a. How does lacking, misunderstanding and misrepresenting knowledge manage to "challenge certain models and principles"?

G

 

[TheSonicTruth]

1. The only thing that ultimately "gets to our heads" is client and consumer demand; what clients demand of engineers and what the clients' customers buy. Another extremely simple concept you seem incapable of grasping.

2. How does not being able to grasp extremely simple concepts make you "reasonably knowledgeable"? Pretty much without exception you've demonstrated that you're missing huge chunks of knowledge and the knowledge you do have you've largely misunderstood, misinterpreted and are misrepresenting! Again, how does that make you "reasonably knowledgeable", surely it makes you quite the opposite doesn't it?
2a. How does lacking, misunderstanding and misrepresenting knowledge manage to "challenge certain models and principles"?

G

Guess you'd have to be an industry outsider to get it, but you're not.

 

[castleofargh]

First, explain what you mean by "reverse EQ to your equal loudness contour". And to your final sentence: I am admittedly no Dick Cavett, so it might be my choice of words.

I mean you would EQ your system to make test tones equally loud to your ear at all frequencies. something many people at one point in their audiophile trip, have thought would give them neutral music. just to be utterly disappointed with the actual result.

to try and clear the air:
-1/ why 1khz? apparently... reasons, and likely because it's a nice arbitrary value that most gears could get right(remember those are stuff for manufacturer specs, it's as much marketing as it is objective data). it's not enough to assess to the actual fidelity of much of anything so it doesn't matter all that much if it's at 1 or around 3khz.
-2/ is the equal loudness contour significant in audio? of course. it's how we ear, so there are plenty of reasons to care about it.
-3/ is the equal loudness contour affecting how we hear at different listening levels? of course. and when I listen quietly, I have an EQ with among other things, some more low and high end boosts. but only because my gears are already EQed to what I estimate to be close enough to my perceived neutral at normal listening levels. without that assumption that we already are neutral at another listening level, the change becomes irrelevant. and my initial way to set up neutral on speakers(I take speaker to avoid HRTF right now but we can come back to that if you like with headphones), is through objective measurements and fine tuning based on subjective impressions. which seems to both align fairly well instead of my subjective perception of neutral going toward a perceived equal loudness contour. and that is so for pretty much anybody for perfectly objective reasons. basically our brain is calibrated to think that the way our hearing changes all sounds, is how the real world sounds like. so it applies to real life sounds from people talking to speakers playing a song.
-3.1/ now if you calibrated your speaker at 95dB SPL and you listen to music at 60dB, sure you probably should boost trebles and subs to feel a more neutral sound in general. but that is only because you have basically failed to properly calibrate your system to your listening habits. which is a very specific issue. not a general demonstration that we want less mids because we're sensitive to it, while missing how everybody is always more sensitive to mids all the time, including the guys making the song and the guys playing the instruments and singing, and of course, us listeners. there is never a rupture in that chain of flawed hearing that requires compensating for. at least not based on average curves. the variations we may need to address are individual variations in HRTF. which again is another issue compared to what you seemed to talk.

 

[gregorio]

Guess you'd have to be an industry outsider to get it, but you're not.

You're right there! I just don't get how a lack of understanding, misrepresenting facts and the inability to grasp simple concepts makes you "reasonably knowledgeable". How would being an "outsider" help? You mean if I knew and understood even less than you do, then maybe you'd appear to be relatively "reasonably knowledgeable"? Even as an "outsider" I'd be able to grasp extremely simple concepts though, so I don't think your plan would work!!

G