[Fish Tank X]

But you're PCMIA slots are not full. And that means that you can get a PCMIA slot for USB2 and be done with the whining. Heh.

 

[fredpb]

Quote:

Originally posted by Fish Tank X But you're PCMIA slots are not full. And that means that you can get a PCMIA slot for USB2 and be done with the whining. Heh.

I have no intention of returning my zen for an ipod to use with my laptop.

You do NOT run my life.

I am entitled to an opinion, anyone who don't like it? TOUGH.

 

[jeffgeno]

Quote:

Originally posted by fredpb I have no intention of returning my zen for an ipod to use with my laptop. You do NOT run my life. I am entitled to an opinion, anyone who don't like it? TOUGH.

You're the one putting your opinions out on display. If you can't deal with people who don't think exactly like you do, an Internet message board probably isn't the best place for you.

 

[fredpb]

Quote:

Originally posted by jeffgeno You're the one putting your opinions out on display. If you can't deal with people who don't think exactly like you do, an Internet message board probably isn't the best place for you.

Think you have it the wrong way around, bud. Perhaps you should grow up.

 

[feverish]

Quote:

Originally posted by fredpb Think you have it the wrong way around, bud. Perhaps you should grow up.

Why are you getting so pissed off? You started the thread, anyhow. If you didn't want people to comment on this particular subject, maybe you shouldn't have brought it up. There's no reason to get defensive when someone tells you to get a USB 2.0 card or god forbid upgrade your OS.

 

[fredpb]

 

[adhoc]

Quote:

Originally posted by MacDEF Oh, the irony. Amazing that people will put up with that. You shouldn't have to reformat your computer EVER. I've had to once in the past three years and was offended by the need to do that.

macDEF, i think you seriously need to manage your expectations here. tell me ONE thing that was invent post-1900 that doest spoil or lose some degree of performance after extended periods of use?

cars will lose performance on you if you dont send them for servicing every 50000km, washing machines and aircons and fans and dryers and hairdryers and dvd players and hard drives and printers and tubes and yoghurt makers will die on you , hell even you will die on you sooner or later, and there's absolutely nothing you can do about that.

add this to the fact that there are many many many twisted people out there who specifically WRITE programs to destroy computers and OS's and you compound the problem. do i hear you say then that well then they should make an impregnable OS? show me ONE bank vault that is completely and totally impermeable to foreign entry, or one ship that is impossible to sink or one plane that is impossble to bring down.

do note also, that he mentioned that he reformatted to maintain top notch performance, not maintain functionality. i have had xp running on a system since it came out and i dont do anything more deep than occasionally defrag and it runs still.

 

[Tim D]

Theres nothing wrong with having high expectations.

But I'd have to chime in and say that boasting about your need not to use anti-virus, or telling everyone how many times you reformat or re-setup your computer truly does not make you a tech guru. There are a lot of computer "hobbyists" that IMO get a perverted sense of what is truly good computing. Like all the fancy kits and neon lights that are available for computers akin to the ones that are available to racing enthusiasts, many of which also have a perverted sense of what makes a good car.

I have a game/internet/multi-media system that I don't have any critical personal data and also don't bother with real-time anti-virus(but I do use trend micros online scans and adaware). Nor any actual productivity or work application. I've also had to go through reformatting on it (not through my own will but because of some shoddy HD's). Gaming systems are not an issue to maintain. Any claims or boasts about how well you maintain your gaming systems will impress as much as how well joe smoe keeps his Xbox running.

And then there is my laptop that I use to do actual work which has to withstand a lot of crap thrown at it practically everyday on a sometimes less than pristine network. Not using anti-virus in that situation is boasting that you don't wear a seat-belt just because *you* are a good driver, but it doesn't take into account the many other variables that can and do lead to problems.

If I needed to reformat my gaming system I'd still be annoyed. If I ever had to do it with my work system I'd be unbelievably pissed. There is just a large following of "hobbyists" that consider setting up or re-setting up a computer an absolute joy and enjoy the hours they put into doing such things until they may discover other activities more worthy of their time.

There is going to be a strong conflict of interest and perception between those that choose to take time and money OUT of computer systems, and those that choose to pour time and money IN to computer systems.

 

[jeffgeno]

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim D But I'd have to chime in and say that boasting about your need not to use anti-virus, or telling everyone how many times you reformat or re-setup your computer truly does not make you a tech guru.

No, my skills at my job as a computer systems administrator make me a tech guru. I make sure every machine in the office has anti-virus software, but my home machine has none. I can't trust the users in the office not to introduce anything on our network, so AV software is critical there and a good investment. However, I know how to avoid such things and how to remove them should I ever get infected via some passively passed worm (although Windows patches and a firewall usually stops those). Paying Symantec $25 a year won't make my home computing experience any more safe.

I can see where you might need anti-virus software, as you're using a laptop. Plugging yourself firewall-less into foreign networks can lead to troubles. My go-nowhere desktop hasn't been hit by a virus in years and I haven't reformatted since I installed Windows XP orginally a year and a half ago. I take no enjoyment from reformatting and rebuilding, so I don't do it.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Originally posted by adhoc macDEF, i think you seriously need to manage your expectations here. tell me ONE thing that was invent post-1900 that doest spoil or lose some degree of performance after extended periods of use?

True, the laws of nature clearly show that this is the case for any device. However, most people see their computer -- rightfully so, in my opinion -- as a tool, an appliance. Something to use to get other things done. It isn't, and shouldn't be, an effort in and of itself. Sure, everything requires maintenance. But my points are threefold when it comes to computers: (1) maintenance should never be as extreme as requiring you to reinstall your OS. It's possible for serious problems to require such drastic measures, but not "routine maintenance"; (2) such maintenance shouldn't be required every two or three months; and (3) a modern OS should do most maintenance automatically so that the user doesn't have to worry about it. OS X is a lot further along than XP in that respect, but as I pointed out above, even it has room to improve. The fact is that for the average consumer, today's computers and operating systems are too unreliable on the whole.


Quote:

do i hear you say then that well then they should make an impregnable OS?

No OS will ever be invulnerable, but most, especially Windows, can do a lot better.


Quote:

do note also, that he mentioned that he reformatted to maintain top notch performance.

Understood, but he shouldn't have to.

 

[adhoc]

macDEF,

ok, after that clarification, i more or less agree with you now, but maybe you might want to take note of some things that still bother me a bit.

i daresay winxp is the first mass-market (linux is not exactly mass-market.. yet) everyday-home-user-targeted (which would distinguish it from 2k or nt) os that does NOT need a re-install till it is obsolete. 1.5 yrs of sensible business, internet and gaming use and my xp home machine is stil chugging along nicely and without any obviously noticeable performance loss. never seen a BSOD either. nor a hard lockup. which is in my windows experience (since late 3.11) SIMPLY AWESOME.

and xp CAN be set up to schedule defrags for your hdd at appointed times, which is as much of self-maintainence as it (or any other os) will allow i suppose.

and finally, a LOT of the BSODs my friends encounter and i fix have something to do with drivers, or more accurately, new drivers. or bad hardware (faulty ram sucks ass man). the latter cannot be helped but i think the former is the fault of BOTH the os writers AND the driver writers.

the problem is that basically os's cannot evolve unless you make them do so by downloading/buying patches/service packs. there are a lot of things out there that can nastily **** up your computing experience and os's cannot adapt. they are true machines in that sense, and not 'intelligent' as we know it.

and oh, i heartily agree with your point abt ms's 'impregnability' being very very porous. it is heartening to see though that ms does redeem itself by very very very quickly releasing security patches that work whenever said ****ups happen.

just my .02.

 

[Tim D]

Bringing up cars is a good example of the direction OS's should follow. Cars are in fact a common example of ideal HCI in fact. It is taken for granted that we have such a powerful and potentially devastating piece of machinery, that because they have become so "usable", with a little training any teen should be able to master them, with sheer ignorance of all the micromanagement and operations of the actual mechanics involved. There are also set standards, rules, and protocols in place for safety reasons and known emergency procedures when accidents occur.

As far as maintenance, ask any mechanic if car maintenance has changed any in the past decade. Of course it has...maintenance has become more of an expected service provided by the dealer as warranties have become extended and less of a worry for the customer (and of course a big annoyance to many independent auto-shops). Sure there are routine tune-ups and maintenance, but when or if you get a recall notice in the mail, you usually don't say yes a new patch! However you are thankful that there is a pro-active measure in place to rectify a flaw, but then you have to wonder who or how many had to suffer first for such a flaw to be noticed and fixed. Especially if serious or numerous a recall/patch.

XP is a step in the right direction, but I wouldn't lay down and say thats the best it could ever get. Do new device drivers really have to be an issue? I've seen faults on both sides of the fence, pretty crappy microsoft supplied drivers(lol I've seen some that induced BSOD on boot after a windows "update"), and pretty crappy device manufacturer supplied ones, or an obvious lack of integration. Why on earth do we have so many proprietary helper services for just burning a stupid CD anyways...And if some of the taiwanese PC hardware manufacturers weren't catering so much to benchmarkers maybe we'd get drivers that actually work well instead of just tweaks to spit out better numbers at the cost of reliability (graphic and IDE drivers are notorious for this). It'd be nice to actually "upgrade/patch" something and not feel like a beta tester. Having a lot of hardware/software choices doesn't necessarily mean you need to give up reliability as long as there are very well defined interfaces in place. We have a large choice of headphones and headphone amps, but with any decent properly working gear there should be little fear that sticking one with the other would cause anything to go up in smoke, and sources, amps, and headphones are typically interchangeble because there *is* a sense of proper interfacing in place.

 

[fredpb]

LOL macdef!!!! They are "after you" now......

 

[fredpb]

Let me explain, instead of "whine".....

When my WIN3.1 computer was finally outdated, I got a 500mhz PIII.

I still have it. I used it for everything. But the time came when it would not do my online gaming, it was too slow. Finally outdated. Win98SE.

I DO have background in computers. In computer and electronics (on the hardware side) since 1970. I got a computer science degree in 1982. My first home computer in 1969. So I am not exactly a novice in these matters.

An online friend suggested I build a computer, and he could loan me some parts. I took his suggestions. Since the new computer would be just for gaming, it was built for such. It had an Asus A7N266-vm motherboard, with onboard sound, lan, and video.
No problem building the computer. But it's gaming performance was lacking. I put a full version of WIN98SE on it, even though XP was available. At the recommendation of the friend, who said my game ran best on 98.

But the computer had issues. Then I had to dig into it. I had to assign interrupts, customize a few things, etc. The mb was a microatx. Only 3 PCI slots and an agp slot, and usb 1.1. No problem. To set up the computer I needed a PCI LAN board and and audio board to be able to force interrupt selection in BIOS.
Did that. Graphics we not adequate for me. New TI4600 agp card. Did some fine tuning. Set up windows, like virtual disk for OS and system(vcache) and stuck in 764mb memory. Got it working great. Superb for gaming.

I use the old computer networked to a router to connect to laptop and new computer with my dsl connection. The old computer was still good for still photos, scanning, printing, and loading my jukebox.

During my fiddling time with the compter I did have to reformat a couple of times. Got sick of that.

Put in an 80gb (orig 40gb) in additon to main drive on new computer, and installed Norton Ghost. Now I backup in DOS to 80gb so if a major problem does occur, i can get my computer back to original state in 30 minutes.

Then I tried a DV camera. Put in a firewire card into the old computer. It was too slow, although it was nice for the NJB3.
That situation was remedied by returning the DV camera (video) and getting a PCTV video capture card. Old computer too slow.
Took a lot of memory too. Ended up with video capture card in new computer, and took out LAN card (used onboard LAN) and put in IDE controller for third 120gb hard drive for video.

Started using new computer for audio as it was very fast.

Then video card died on new computer. Put in FX5900, which required the agp and adjacent PCI slot. Bummer. I pulled the IDE controller and 40gb drive and now use an 80 and 120gb.

Slots are full, and cannot remove any existing cards.

New computer works fine with Treo 10, minidisc netmd, and NJB3.

I rip from CDs for classical music input into my jukeboxes, so I do not transfer files enmasse to my jukeboxes, so the slower usb1 does not matter to me.

Windows 98SE has been good for me. Very stable. No reformats now ever. Only problem I had was installing ICS for Bluetooth which totalled the OS. Had to restore it from backup. Bluetooth for PocketPC not essential, so so much for that.

I had toyed with upgrading the computer again, with new mb, memory and cpu. But my benchmark scores on aquamark for gaming were better than most XP users using same processors.

Then the NJB3 died. I considered the Ipod. But since I don't have XP and USB2.0 I could not use it. That is the original point of this thread. I got the Zen xtra instead, which works fine on my system.

I personally, in my situation, cannot see tearing apart a working computer for a new mb and then spending the cash for XP, just for an iPod. Why? I have very limited income, and use credit cards alot. To use that iPod, I would have to shell out at least $250 more. The replacment Zen was on a warranty, so I had to chose what was in the store. If I was going to spend $400 on a new HD jukebox (which I would not), I would get the PJB100, NOT the iPod. No way the iPod or Zen...I would love a PJB100.

Besides, the money is better spent on my headphone gear, which I use many times a day. I want to upgrade my MG Head OTL.
But was not until Audio Advisor had a sale on the Perreaux. I am going to audtion the Perreaux, and if I like it, sell the MG Head to pay for it.

Hope this explains my situation to many who have "hammered" me. I have my reasons for my decisions. If something works, don't fix it. I have a lot of knowledge of WIN98SE, and would have to start again on XP. I do think WINXP is much more user friendly, especially for the novice computer user. I will use XP when I HAVE to. Not before.

As far as using my laptop. Why? It would be a hassle to use it, as there is already two computers on my desk. And I would have to buy a USB 2 PC card. Why? Loading the Zen is just a small part of ripping time. Ripping and encoding takes longer. Download time is just not an issue for me.

I have my reasons for what I do and have. I am not going to explain them any more

.

But this has turned into a popular thread?

 

[skyther]

Uhm, you have a GFX5900 in a system powered by a second generation Athlon. And you're also saying you can't afford 250 bucks for a mobo/CPU upgrade.

Sorry, but that makes absolutely no sense to me. A budget video card would have made little performance difference due to your CPU bottleneck and would have cost a fraction as much.

Is there even DirectX 9 for W98SE? W98's memory management is trash compared to XP/2k.

Quote:

I had toyed with upgrading the computer again, with new mb, memory and cpu. But my benchmark scores on aquamark for gaming were better than most XP users using same processors.

Yeah, was XP even out when you got your CPU? I'll personally bet my two systems (one A-XP/Barton based and another P4C) will perform much better with XP over W98.