[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elephas /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've been waiting for upgrades to be made on two SP amps since August last year.

price isn't the problem with SP (although the amps certainly are on the pricey side) - the above is.

 

[triggerc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFKMan23 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Honestly I really don't want to get into this again as those issues have already been addressed in this thread. However, people gave him very reasonably worded responses that addressed his questions adequately that were far more civil than the attitude that he displayed. I'll say basically what I said to him. I really don't know what you're trying to get at here. The replies that he received were "adult like" in their tone and nature. The mass majority of them were very mature and appropriate, but did also deal with the tone of his posts and why people took issue with that. With respect to your reply and why you're bring this up again, I really don't know what situations that you've been in, but if you randomly come into a situation and come with guns blazing, my experience is that you're not going to be received well. I already stated that there were ways in which he could have stated his thread and not received a seemingly large backlash, but I guess you missed that. I will also say that I don't know what experience you have on online forums, but it is normal for a thread starter to set the tone and type of "voice" that the thread can take. You also see that in face to face communication. Accusatory language and non accusatory language starting off a conversation can be met with starkly different reactions.

I came reading the thread because I was interested in some of the Singlepower offerings, and I started reading a thread with the name in it.

Of course there were good responses, some people were reasonable, while others sprang at anything negative. I was/still am annoyed at the fact that the OP was singled out for his attitude, while the proponents, shall I say, of the Singlepower cause, made rude remarks to people in opposition to their own view, even when the poster used the utmost courtesy.

I guess you are the type that treat onto others as they treat onto you. I will not question your philosophies, but I would rather not treat other people the way I wouldn't treat myself.

 

[tagosaku]

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggerc /img/forum/go_quote.gif It took me almost the whole day to read this thread, but from reading the first few pages of this thread, I just want to say that hypocrisy runs rampant in this forum. OP was criticized for an opinionated post, but he/she is expected to be more "civil", while other more experienced members have made posts not too far away from personal attacks, directly or indirectly. So I guess people here fight fire with fire, expecting others to be "civil" while they are ready to jump on any remark they don't like. Remember, a great man once said, "an eye for an eye and the world will be blind."

Have you missed the post by elrod-tom? If so I recommend reading it.
and
If you did not understand his post, I strongly recommend contacting him or other mods about head-fi's standard of posting.
And if you disagree with it or dislike it, you can look for forums that have a policy that you can agree with, or start your own forum.

I am here mainly for information and do appreciate the mods keeping this place enjoyable and useful for me

 

[tagosaku]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif price isn't the problem with SP (although the amps certainly are on the pricey side) - the above is.

Yes, it can be very frustrating.

Although it depends on the upgrade also. Upgrading to Piltron for my MPX took far less than an year. Actually was not much longer than a month - which was too long anyway

 

[Kang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcoheda /img/forum/go_quote.gif price isn't the problem with SP (although the amps certainly are on the pricey side) - the above is.

I've been waiting for an amp since last September.

 

[Happy Camper]

Sounds like SP isn't interested in making a business but keeping it a hobby. There is no way it should take that long to get an amp. SP has had how many new designed amps since the beginning of 07? I'm sure the majority of SP followers are more interested in timely deliveries and not another design.

All this said, I received my amp 5 weeks after ordered. I don't understand the long wait times but do feel for those that are victim to it. Being an owner of a Xin amp gave me this unpleasant experience.

 

[vcoheda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Happy Camper /img/forum/go_quote.gif SP has had how many new designed amps since the beginning of 07? I'm sure the majority of SP followers are more interested in timely deliveries and not another design.

yes.

that's another thing. every meet, mikhail brings one or two new amps, but then it seems that they never go into production. i never hear about them again or see/know of anyone that has one. and what about that solid state balanced amp (the Harmony) - did that owner every receive it (panyncor). i doubt it. probably would have posted something.

i just checked that thread. he said on 4/5 that he would have the amp in about 2 weeks. that date has certainly passed by a bit.

 

[Telynau]

I haven't read every post in this thread, but as a long time owner of many tube amps (and purchaser of a Singlepower PPX3 Slam Extreme), I would like to add my $0.02.

1. The Singlepower products are, by industry standards, low volume, hand made products. There are plusses and minuses to this kind of product, but they are what they are. In my view, this type of operation is more rapidly affected, and affected to a greater absolute extent, by inflation than larger businesses or business with different business models. They have a much smaller margin for error in meeting their weekly payroll, monthly rent and other fixed costs.

2. Because it is basically a boutique operation, Singlepower will work with any product they have ever made. You get to talk to the guys who actually design and build the amps. Singlepower will fix any problems with their amps without arguing with the customer -- Singlepower is obsessed with customer satisfaction. I own other products made by other manufacturers that have the same attitude, but their names include Audio Research and McIntosh, and I can assure you that the price of their comparable approach to service and customer satisfaction is a heck of lot greater than at Singlepower.

It is frustrating to wait a long time to get an upgrade -- or even to purchase an amp -- but you have to remember you are dealing with a small company run by real people who, in the end, will take good care of you.

At least that has been my experience. Regards, James

 

[PFKMan23]

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggerc /img/forum/go_quote.gif I guess you are the type that treat onto others as they treat onto you. I will not question your philosophies, but I would rather not treat other people the way I wouldn't treat myself.

It seems to me you really haven't read the thread and looked at the posts that he has directed toward other members when they've attempted to explain things to him. His posts are very combative, argumentative and disrespectful. When others have tried to explain things to him, he has maintained such an attitude and then when he finally replied, feigned ignorance as to why people were less than cheerful when they replied to him.

And yes I do believe in the golden rule. I believe he violated that from the get go. I do belive that if people's replies to him were equivalent in tone to his own posts, things would be much much uglier.

And again, in general, if you are going to come in with a less than pleasant attitude then you are going to get less than pleasant replies, especially if you're going to call a company a scam and try to replies based off of that. That's how basic communications work. You can not come in with a fairly aggressive attitude and expect others to respond positively to that.

The OP has acknowledged that he's a person who is extremely opinionated. but he did not modify his behavior after being confronted to the fact that it comes across as fairly aggressive.

------

All of that said, I do hope people either get their amps or get refunds if that's what they want.

 

[triggerc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PFKMan23 /img/forum/go_quote.gif It seems to me you really haven't read the thread and looked at the posts that he has directed toward other members when they've attempted to explain things to him. His posts are very combative, argumentative and disrespectful. When others have tried to explain things to him, he has maintained such an attitude and then when he finally replied, feigned ignorance as to why people were less than cheerful when they replied to him.

It seems to me that you really haven't read the thread and looked at the posts some members had written to other members just because they doubted Singlepower, even though they were very polite. If you think since that OP had a bad attitude, he doesn't deserve a good attitude in return, so be it. While other members that have done nothing disrespectful are also being attacked by bad attitude just because they are in the thread. I'd suggest for you to read over the thread again if you are missing what I'm talking about.

Since I don't have a gazillion dollars to spend, I'd like to get the most bang for my buck. I'd like a more concrete answer than "prices are going up, look at oil" type responses. Last time I checked oil price does not dictate the prices of other commodities, while oil has risen many other commodities are decreasing in price, like aluminum. Of course currency exchange rate is a factor, but a well managed company should be able to find alternative suppliers, or at least hedge for that risk.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by triggerc /img/forum/go_quote.gif Since I don't have a gazillion dollars to spend, I'd like to get the most bang for my buck. I'd like a more concrete answer than "prices are going up, look at oil" type responses. Last time I checked oil price does not dictate the prices of other commodities, while oil has risen many other commodities are decreasing in price, like aluminum. Of course currency exchange rate is a factor, but a well managed company should be able to find alternative suppliers, or at least hedge for that risk.

since you dont have a gazilion dollars to spend you should not fiddle around with low-quality gear. its a waste of time and money. buy a used whatever you like and go be happy.

unfortunately, our fine country runs on oil. aluminum is barely a concern for what the amp costs. the price of the parts singlepower is not set up to deal with in house copper, steel (transformers) and silver (wire) have all skyrocketed.

You mention a company looking for a different supplier, and playing one supplier against the other is indeed an option for a larger company. Unfortunately for singlepower, or any smaller company, many of the options involve suppliers who will not talk to you for less than a certain order commitment, which a small company probably cant make. then we add in the fact that only a couple companies make the parts singlepower uses that actually cost substantial money (transformers) and that EVERYTING involved with their construction has gone exceptionally expensive recently (steel, copper, plastics, labor) and the options get slimmer.

Its only going to get worse with china having recently passed labor laws (oops a savy businessman like yourself knew this weeks ago when it was announced) and the inevitable snowball effect this will have on global markets. Japan no longer has to hold their prices down to compete with china because the prices on EVERYTHING from china are going up, and Japanese gear will soon cost what American gear cost when we had factories to make it. Chinese gear will soon cost what japanese gear cost 1.5 years ago, but the laws are for workers rights and labor standards, NOT quality standards. You will still be able to buy cheap electronics parts in a year or 2, they will just be more expensive.

 

[triggerc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif since you dont have a gazilion dollars to spend you should not fiddle around with low-quality gear. its a waste of time and money. buy a used whatever you like and go be happy. unfortunately, our fine country runs on oil. aluminum is barely a concern for what the amp costs. the price of the parts singlepower is not set up to deal with in house copper, steel (transformers) and silver (wire) have all skyrocketed.

I guess I could buy the "best" and be content with it, but upgrade-itis hits sooner or later, I'd rather not be committed to one thing.

I'm going to disagree with you about copper, silver, and steel skyrocketing. Check out the NYME if you don't believe me. Copper and silver are up about 3% since last year, while steel is up slightly more at around 6%. It definitely increased, but it is not skyrocketing, inflation accounts for the majority of that increase anyway. So I still fail to see where the dramatic increase in price comes from, unless all of the raw material price increase is attributed to plastic and labor, which I presume is in-house.