[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blitzula You completely missed the point and confirmed the emotion arguement. Let me summarize what the post said: 1. Bose is very well-marketed and approached profitability in an intelligent manner. 2. The marketing isn't directed toward audiophiles (and as such they aren't much concerned with them). However, they have been hugely successful as a mass market product (mind you, this isn't saying it's a good product). For that, you question whether he works for Bose and all that other stuff. Very weak counter to a valid post.

1. I believe you are the one that missed my point.
2. I am not looking at the substantive argument you and others have posted.
3. This is an attempt to prove or disprove that there is an alterier motive on part of one or more of the posters whom have tried to defend Bose against their unethical business practicies.
4. There is no "weak" argument by anyone. This is an online forum not a court room. your "strong" argument is just that your argument, your opnion; and no one will conceed that their arument is a "weak" argument just because you "think" they are

 

[Blitzula]

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert 1. I believe you are the one that missed my point. 2. I am not looking at the substantive argument you and others have posted. 3. This is an attempt to prove or disprove that there is an alterier motive on part of one or more of the posters whom have tried to defend Bose against their unethical business practicies. 4. There is no "weak" argument by anyone. This is an online forum not a court room. your "strong" argument is just that your argument, your opnion; and no one will conceed that their arument is a "weak" argument just because you "think" they are

You didn't make a point, so I was wrong in saying you missed his.

This isn't a matter of opinion...he made a point, you didn't address it and asked questions designed to question him personally. I never said your post was an arguement-it doesn't rise to that level-it's just weak implication.

 

[mrarroyo]

I do not see the "...unethical business practices..." , all I see is a company who has been able to market their product to a group of people who seem very happy with them. If every company was as successful as Bose has been they would be much fewer companies in bankruptcy.

 

[music_man]

whether you care to believe me or not, i have no affiliation with bose in any manner whatsoever.

i made a point. a valid point at that. i did not "defend" them in any way. nor did i "bash" them in any way.

the point being that bose is making a lot of money. so much money in fact that they could care less as to those that are out of their target market. now let me ask you, would you be complaining if you were the one making a lot of money? can you blame anyone for making a lot of money? another fact is that they are not even doing anything unethical per se. they do indeed bring a solid product to market. i think the entire problem is some of you here think this is being shoved down audiophiles throats. that is completely contrary to their marketing. it is a "lifestyle" and "convenience" product and marketed as such. they never proclaimed to be in competition with high end audiophile products. that is not their market. they know that. why doesn't everyone know that? if everyone could accept that this thread would not even exist!

i neither condone nor shun any of bose' marketing practices. i simply stated some facts. like i said "they might as well be selling paper airplanes".
they are in bussiness to make money. you as an individual can choose how to feel about that. personally i am neutral on that subject.
i don't buy bose so i really don't even give them that much thought.
again, the product they offer is as shown. people that buy it are happy with it. if this were not the case bose would not be doing so well fiscally.

one thing i wish to make very clear is that no one has ever heard me at any time mutter that bose is any type of superior audio. it is what it is. bose knows what it is. their target audience is happy with it. what exactly is bose doing that is so upsetting to some folks?

personally, i do not take up "crusades" so you have lost me on this one.
to more or less call me a "troll" is not very kind etiquette however.
anyhow, i do not feel the need to argue about this matter so i will take a bow at this point.

music_man

 

[sonance]

There are few mass market companies that really push audio quality in a big way. Whether Bose is the "best sounding" at any of their products or not, they are one of the few companies that have managed to convince the general public that their products sound the best, while still being sexy and high quality. I definitely agree that at every price point, there are better sounding alternatives to Bose, but Bose seems to have a knack for producing products that are widely available (and widely demo'd to good effect), sound good in public open space demos compared to their mass market competitors and have high WAF (wife acceptance factor). Plus they have that aura of cool / high quality about them that drives sales of some of their more expensive products. I find parallels with the iPod - it has that same aura (now slowly fading) of being the mass market premium product in the MP3 space that works well enough and sounds good enough.

Sure you could tell someone interested in a small satellite HT system that a set of 5 Gallo A'Diva Ti satellites (or Mirage or any other mid-fi brand of your choice) will sound better than a Boss Accoustimass system while still being aesthetically more pleasing, but they'll just stare at you blankly. Gallo who? It costs WHAT?

A lot of people ask me for advice on buying audio because they know I'm into the hobby, but they have no idea how much this stuff costs. I try and avoid discussing what my equipment costs, but when they find out, they immediately name a price range, rather than the initial - "Oh I don't know, I just want something that sounds good, but I'm flexible on cost, within reason." When I recommend something within their price range, first question is "What about Bose?"

Sound quality is just not that important to them. Looks, brand appeal, features are all big factors for non-audiophiles, while enthusiasts weigh performance / sound quality much higher and thus you fight a losing battle when convincing them of trying a "lesser known" brand even if in the mid / high end the company is well known and long established. Even if I convinced them that something else sounded better, they think Bose sounds "good enough" AND it has all the other unmentioned things going for it that a (to them) no-name doesn't. Any incremental improvement in sound quality is a) outweighed by the Bose name and b) imaginary anways. I remember someone asked me if I was worried that my (to them unbelievably expensive) Musical Fidelity Tri Vista CD player (sold long ago) was a smart purchase, because "they might just disappear - what will you do if it breaks." Bose to them is a solid purchase because its a known quantity and they can boast about it to friends with lesser systems. If they bought a MF system, people would not be impressed unless you told them how much it cost. In the end, I know now not to sway people away from a Bose purchase, because there are larger factors at work in a Bose purchase that I don't regard too highly.

 

[music_man]

sonance, that was much better stated than my effort.
with less aggression and force. i should have been more subtle about what i had to say and maybe some people would not have gotten mad. oh well, sorry guys.

anyhow, what ever can be said about bose could be said about nike.
these companies do not care what they are doing. neither should you. well, they do care. about their bottom line and not much else.
like i said if you are not in their demographic just forget they exist. there is no reason to take up a crusade against something you wouldn't even own yourself. if other people want that stuff than let them have it and nike and bose shall just get richer. that is how economics works.

in regard to nike, i will state personally that i find their running shoes to be a joke. does asics have any brand recognition? no. so that is why everyone is wearing nike. these people are not serious runners anyhow. basket ball players do wear nikes, they are endorsed to do so. however they do not wear off the shelf shoes. the darn shoes have to be custom made for them to quality specifications, lol. go figure. the public at large are purchasing "brand recognition" and "lifestyle" products. as a matter of fact, both bose and nike have products actually named "lifestyle"! how can anyone compete with that(joking)?

music_man

 

[gsansite]

I don't like their aggresive and unethical marketing, they're not the only ones that do it, the others are just easier to ignore....

 

[Uncle Erik]

There's nothing like a good Bose thread, is there?

What really cheeses me off about Bose is the way they present themselves in their marketing. They boldly assert themselves to be the "best," when they demonstrably are not. Even if the 901s were $100, they would still irritate me if they were advertised as superior.

That's what bugs people. There's a ton of overpriced gear out there, which is beside the point. It's that their stuff just isn't very good while claiming to be the best. And their advertising is everywhere. That's what fans the hatred. Sometimes you'll see B&O lumped in with Bose, but you'll see that they don't make outrageous claims about their products, which is why they're not hated.

As for the high prices of most "good" audio gear? Don't pay them. You should see the manufacturers whine about people buying used on Audiogon. Not only that, but look how popular DIY is. There's a reason I build my own stuff.

 

[music_man]

just so everyone feels better i think i have found a worse ripoff than bose!

it is called saphire. sold at tweeter stores. these are $300 or so for the cubes without the sub. they sound pretty darn bad too.

music_man

 

[stevesurf]

Exec1:Steve-san, so what do you think about Bose #3 headphones?
Me:Well, I just really don't care for them at all.

Exec1:What?! Steve-san, you are always getting the latest toys; please explain to us!
Me:Uh, I'd rather not go into it.

Exec1:But the Bose have gotten really good reviews.
Me:Well, simply put, the thing is, the QC3's compress your ears and have less bass than the QC2's. You get the compressed head syndrome

Exec1:So you like the older style
Me:No, the QC2's really don't offer decent dynamic range and as substantial an experience as many other headphones

Exec1:But these are really good on planes
Me:Uh as long as the screaming baby is not next to you

Exec1:Screaming baby?
Me:Yes, the screaming baby that always sits next to me, along with the apologetic, yet very cute, mother. I always get them, whereever I go, whatever airline I fly on a long trip, there is always the screaming baby. On the trip to Japan, I even played with the screaming baby to give the mother a break

Exec1:What is this your baby?
Me:No no no! I don't have children, only cats

Exec1:So Bose does not prevent the screaming baby?
Me:The high pitch shreak of the screaming baby penetrates everything, except for these (holds up some e4s with foamies

Exec1:Those headphones are not noise cancellation!
Me:Yes, but they isolate

Exec1:But we thought the Bose were very, very good.
Me:The community does not think so

Exec2:Community?
Me:Yes, the Head-fi community.

Exec2:Oh this is like some kind of cult you belong to, right?
Exec1:Steve-san, you live in a commune? We never knew!
Me:No, no no, I just go on the internet and post

Exec1 to Exec2:Oh he's a hacker kind of guy, very, very dangerous! Be careful of him!
Me:No, I just get advice from these folks and then we get together at meets to try the headphones

Exec1:Ah hah! A commune! Secret meetings!
Me:No it's ok, the meetings are not secret, you folks can come.

Exec3:I get it, its a group of audio geeks!
Me:Oh god...

Exec1:Yeah, thats it!
Me:Ok, ok. But we really know our sound.

Exec1:And your screaming babies, as well!
Me:No it's not my baby, honest

Exec1:We believe you

Me:Actually these are also good if your wife snores.

Exec1:Are you saying my wife snores???!!!
Me:Oh, I'm so sorry, I wasn't meaning...

Exec1:And how do you know this???!!!
Me:

Exec1:Oh cmon, we're just kidding, but I really want to get a set of those Bose's
Me::

 

[Purgatos]

That gave me a great early morning chuckle. Thanks!

 

[music_man]

folks! do not worry, bose marketing is alive and well as of this date.

i have now become a bb geek. yes, the store i had never visted untill just days ago has become my second home. ok, just kidding. anyhow, i was really there this evening.

a lady(who obviously had money to spend) is ushered into the magnolia room in my presence. she is shown many $1,000+ options for a 5.1 speaker set.

she listens attentively. she then proclaims "my husband will want the bose, because they are the best!" she is ushered to the bose display where the sales kid promptly closes said sale. now i see firsthand why you all hate bose. lol.

btw, i could not be talked into the bose. i "settled" for a martin logan product for this evenings fix

music_man

 

[skeeder]

I just find them right next to the ipod.

Good, but over hyped. I wouldn't buy it since there are better alternatives for the price.

 

[Davesrose]

OMG! This must be a thread that never dies

At least the name Bose can bring out a flame on this forum!

IMHO, some of their products were great. Yes, they are a overpriced. I also don't see why they don't ever upgrade some of their products (ie, the 901 is still marketed....after being 30 years old and always getting knocked for not having any bass). A few years ago it was the Bose wave radio.....cool idea/ certainly a way to seem audiophile for the masses (who wouldn't want big sound in a box). But it's a boombox. Now it's the QC headphones. While I don't see plunking down $300 for a set of earphones I'd only use on an airplane/ I did go off and get the $150 equivalent (Sennheisers). Why didn't I go off and get isolating IEMs for $40.....cause I wanted the convenience of a closed headphone....didn't mind if it was a bit more. That was my threshold. Right now, I'm at my threshold in this head-fi forum to spend about $300 on a piece of equipment. Haven't gotten to expensive $100 interconnects......but may do that once I get my "perfect system" made. HUMM.....am I a fool for spending so much on dedicated equipment

 

[oicdn]

I was in Barnes and Noble yesterday in the magazine rack, looking at bike mags. There was a Radio Shack rep next to me. I had on my Kramer modded KSC75's and he had on UR40's and we overheard some guy talking about his new Tri-ports bing the absolute best headphone since sliced bread. Mind you, we're in a mall atmosphere and are complete strangers.

Somehow, we both looked up at eachother, and automatically felt the need to bring this guy back down to earth. I dunno why, but I guess the dislike for Bose is what made us think "go for it..."

The guy stated how his car has Bose speakers, etc....and "if Koss was so much better, why's it in Radio shack?" It kinda lit a fire under the RS guys ass and long story short, I think the guy with the Tri-Ports felt pretty ****** for being embarassed in front of a couple of his friends bragging about his $140 headphones, just got owned by combined, under $75...tax included.

I used to like the sound of Bose products...well, somewhat. I always felt they were lacking in one way or another, and that I couldn't quite place my finger on it, but always had the opinion that you could find better for the same, and even lower pricepoint...and now, after training my ears much more to the headphone world....I finally see how absolutely horrible, as a company, they are.