[ProtegeManiac]

That leaves us back with There's no physical reason that an earbud should not be capable of delivering similar sound quality as my open-back headphones.

There is a marketing reason why it won't. Also, it's not just the distance, not to mention there are other design considerations as for why some headphones are even deliberately designed to sit farther from the ear canals.

One such design consideration is isolation. If the earbuds are not going to give good enough isolation, why would anyone spend serious money on these if it relegates them to home use just to not have ambient noise get in the way? Manufacturers therefore would think that a reference earbud would be bang up competing against reference headphones, in which case, from a buyer's point of view, why have an itchy bit of form in the ear conch instead of around the ears?

That's what IEMs are for. If distance was all that mattered for size then how come the wrong tips can rmake IEMs sound like tin cans? They're already right in there. And also why if a manufacturer is going to sell something small, much easier to damage device, might as well make sure it can be marketed to somebody who would probably use it where he can't use open headphones, hence the isolation.

Of course, Bob will then bring up why they're not classified according to degree of isolation, because Bob rejects the simple need to read which obviously other people already can deduce from the form factor, since Bob is above reading about whatever he's going to get into.

Incorrect. I'm quite receptive to the ideas of others, but I will consider those ideas critically. If they lack merit, I'll say so.
---
It's that you argue from a position of ignorance that's so annoying. If you had shown up and asked questions about the things that didn't make sense to you, instead of assuming you already knew everything there is to know on the topic (especially when the whole point of the thread was to examine the topic from a fresh perspective) your participation would have been better received. It's unfortunate you were not open to learning something new.

You mean like how Bob admits he's ignorant about something but thinks he's above reading to deal with that ignorance.

To be fair, I probably should have posted this in Sound Science.

You should. And I won't reply there so you can see that the people in that forum will raise basically similar points as were raised here.

 

[PaganDL]

HI @ProtegeManiac,

As always, very well said good points, like you, I've pretty much stated what you have here in other threads around the forum.

Please keep up the good work on promoting other's using their brains instead of following the latest trend, hype, etc, though I understand it may be a futile cause but at least for those who are at least willing to learn, it is all worth it!

Hope you have a great day !

 

[ProtegeManiac]

HI @ProtegeManiac,

As always, very well said good points, like you, I've pretty much stated what you have here in other threads around the forum.

Please keep up the good work on promoting other's using their brains instead of following the latest trend, hype, etc, though I understand it may be a futile cause but at least for those who are at least willing to learn, it is all worth it!

Hope you have a great day !

I do have a knack for giving up at least a few minutes of my time and a few calories typing trying to get through to some boneheads. Although to be perfectly honest, it's probably so I wouldn't bang my own head on my keyboard, which doesn't just result in a broken keyboard since my skull is never half as dense as those to whom I have to repeatedly explain things to.

 

[Jaywalk3r]

One such design consideration is isolation.

Isolation is why earbuds and open-back headphones are functionally equivalent, while IEMs and closed-back headphones are functionally the same.

The former offer no isolation, so are only suitable (for hi-fi use) in quiet listening environments. The latter offer isolation, so can also be used for mobile use.

If the earbuds are not going to give good enough isolation, why would anyone spend serious money on these if it relegates them to home use just to not have ambient noise get in the way?

If distance was all that mattered …

No one suggested any such thing. I pointed out that driver size isn't the only thing that determines how much bass a driver can produce.

Of course, Bob will then bring up why they're not classified according to degree of isolation.

Of course Bob wonders why the site doesn't classify on function, which is largely determined by isolation level, instead of form factor (ear vs. head), which implies nothing about the suitability of a 'phone. That's the whole point of this thread.

I must say, your reply might set a record for largely agreeing with the opening post, and subsequent posts by the OP, in the most antagonistic way possible. Oh well. At least you understand the importance of isolation.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Isolation is why earbuds and open-back headphones are functionally equivalent, while IEMs and closed-back headphones are functionally the same.

The former offer no isolation, so are only suitable (for hi-fi use) in quiet listening environments. The latter offer isolation, so can also be used for mobile use.

Thank you for regurgitating what I already said. So far you seem capable of understanding some parts.

On to the next phase, which is to connect that to everything else I've been saying about everything else you've been saying.

No one suggested any such thing. I pointed out that driver size isn't the only thing that determines how much bass a driver can produce.

I already quoted that but hey, maybe a screenshot will jog the ol' memory.

Hence why I explained to you that in that situation isolation is the primary determinant because, surprise, if your Etymotics fit loosely, you wouldn't get any of that bass.

Of course Bob wonders why the site doesn't classify on function, which is largely determined by isolation level, instead of form factor (ear vs. head), which implies nothing about the suitability of a 'phone. That's the whole point of this thread.

I must say, your reply might set a record for largely agreeing with the opening post, and subsequent posts by the OP, in the most antagonistic way possible. Oh well. At least you understand the importance of isolation.

Not anywhere near as abrasive replying to explanations with something along the lines of, "Meet Bob. He doesn't know anything. Why don't you spoon feed him the info?" I jsut assumed that's a speech and thought pattern of yours and it might be possible that using the same bit might help get my point across.

Given how many times I have to repeat myself, clearly it doesn't work, but I'm at the point where I've given up on that but perhaps anybody else coming in with the same question might have a higher capacity for comprehending those same points that had to be repeated several times in this thread.

 

[Jaywalk3r]

Thank you for regurgitating what I already said.

You realize I made that point in the open ing post, right? That that has been the primary thesis of the thread? Come back when you've learned to read.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

You realize I made that point in the open ing post, right? That that has been the primary thesis of the thread? Come back when you've learned to read.

You do realize I already repeated it several times in relation to everything else I've been explaining?

Well clearly the answer is "Bob NO read, No more read, Bob tired."

 

[Jaywalk3r]

You do realize I already repeated it several times in relation to everything else I've been explaining?

The only thing I realize is that you're trolling the thread.

 

[Jaywalk3r]

The Shozy BK (aka Stardust) arrived today. It's pretty much as I expected, in form and function. In terms of sound signature, it sits right between my HD650 and my SR325e. It sounds as "big" as any of my headphones.

In terms of sound quality, The BK sounds fantastic, in the same class as my larger headphones. It's not like the BK outclasses the headphones, but it holds its own without leaving me wanting more.

I suspect this will become my Go To office 'phone. It's much more comfortable than any of my headphones, it sounds great, and I can hear when someone is knocking quietly at my office door.

Consider me impressed.

 

[Svenrolic]

The Shozy BK (aka Stardust) arrived today. It's pretty much as I expected, in form and function. In terms of sound signature, it sits right between my HD650 and my SR325e. It sounds as "big" as any of my headphones.

In terms of sound quality, The BK sounds fantastic, in the same class as my larger headphones. It's not like the BK outclasses the headphones, but it holds its own without leaving me wanting more.

I suspect this will become my Go To office 'phone. It's much more comfortable than any of my headphones, it sounds great, and I can hear when someone is knocking quietly at my office door.

Consider me impressed.

Congrats on finding the headphone for your use case.

I have a question. In your title, "Why do we classify headphones/earphones by form factor?", what did you mean by we? Someone brought this up earlier and I don't recall it being addressed.

(Do you mean "We" as in human beings, or "We" as in head-fi users?)

 

[GREQ]

Congrats on finding the headphone for your use case.

I have a question. In your title, "Why do we classify headphones/earphones by form factor?", what did you mean by we? Someone brought this up earlier and I don't recall it being addressed.

(Do you mean "We" as in human beings, or "We" as in head-fi users?)

That's an interesting point.

In big electronics shops, I find that the classifications are "headphones" which covers almost everything with a headband, "bluetooth headphones" because they sell well, "portable" for everything earbud/IEM/gym (with ear hooks etc) and "bose" because there's always a separate bose stand that they paid extra for.
Usually the NC headphones just get lumped into the bluetooth category.

But this is probably just opening up another can of worms.... I mostly just came to see how the argument was going :/ ...

 

[Randonneur]

How did I find myself in a thread where someone is seriously trying to argue this:

Isolation is why earbuds and open-back headphones are functionally equivalent, while IEMs and closed-back headphones are functionally the same.

Today I have discovered that functionally, my open backed circumaural headphones should be replaced by earbuds. Because isolation is the sole determinant of headphone functionality.

If there was some more subtle, harder to grasp meaning in all the argument here, I have not managed to grasp it because these ridiculous arguments about Bob and his functional requirements have stunned me.

My own "classification scheme" is more along the lines of:
- Sounds good vs sounds like ass
- Portable vs can only be used at home
- Cheap vs expensive
- Comfortable vs not (which is why IEMs and closed phones are not equivalent to me)

But that's my personal way of classifying headphones, and I don't expect the rest of the world to agree that it's the one true way. The last headphone store I was in had a classification scheme of headphones vs IEMs then based on brand, and the store before that it was Bluetooth vs non-Bluetooth (with a separate section explicitly labelled as 'high end' in the non-Blueooth area).

 

[megabigeye]

- Portable vs can only be used at home

I think the main argument is that the level of isolation determines how portable a head-/earphone can be, but that this point isn't always discussed, especially when it comes to earbuds.

 

[PaganDL]

I do have a knack for giving up at least a few minutes of my time and a few calories typing trying to get through to some boneheads. Although to be perfectly honest, it's probably so I wouldn't bang my own head on my keyboard, which doesn't just result in a broken keyboard since my skull is never half as dense as those to whom I have to repeatedly explain things to.

Hi @ProtegeManiac,

As said, I feel your pain...
I really feel your pain, I have the same issues trying to explain things...probably to the same boneheads...you try to help & explain things too as well
Though most times I don't usually answer in the first place as it helps alleviate a lot of potential stress & frustrated headbanging on my part.
At least the important thing is if we can help somebody, it is worth it to some degree though some days I do find that not only debatable but highly questionable.

Anyway, keep helping those who really need it & eventually we can hope it balances out.
Sanity nowithstanding is another story.

P.S. I would suggest some sort of speed bag or stout stick to hit something to relieve frustration.
Not worth replacing potentially broken keyboards or medical expenses for accidental aggravated concussions...

Hope you have a great day !

 

[Jaywalk3r]

My own "classification scheme" is more along the lines of:
- Sounds good vs sounds like ass
- Portable vs can only be used at home
- Cheap vs expensive
- Comfortable vs not (which is why IEMs and closed phones are not equivalent to me)

Unfortunately, none of those classifiers can determine for me whether or not a particular 'phone is well-suited for the task. Isolation level does just that.

Sounds good vs like ass: In the wrong listening environment, phenomenal headphones sound like ass. Try using an HD800 on transit. You'd get better sound quality from $5 IEMs, because they provide isolation necessary to increase dynamic range.

Portable, vs. only can be used at home. These are not mutually exclusive. Earbuds, for example, are portable, but not suitable for mobile use. They're for quiet-room listening only (unless they're only for background music).

Cheap vs. Expensive All form factors can be found at a wide range of prices. Most times, this won't be a factor, unless the 'phone will be at increased risk of damage or theft.

Comfortable or not. I've found comfortable and uncomfortable 'phones of all form factors.Some designs are created with comfort in mind, others aren't. My Bose QC35 are my most comfortable (and worst sounding) headphone. My Grados aren't comfortable for long periods (but sound great). My Etys are very comfortable, even more than my Bose, but not terribly convenient. Comfort is important, but it doesn't correlate well to form factor.