[ProtegeManiac]

Agreed that another person might have a more productive, easier to counter response. But you're causing yourself and others frustration because it's entertaining to you?
There was already some discussion in this very thread about the difficulties of online communication, wherein Jaywalk3r and I both admitted to having difficulty knowing how we would come across to others and also how difficult it is to interpret others' intentions and true meanings. Jaywalk3r said something about being interpreted as a jerk when that isn't his intention, and then he apologized for potentially unintentionally coming across that way. I think this could be safely extended to any person and any intention: you, me, other posters in this thread; jerk-ish, kind, funny, arrogant, etc. You mean to come across one way, you're interpreted another. If a person's tone of voice and body language aren't available, I think this is perfectly acceptable and even expected.

So, with that in mind, it seems to me that Jaywalk3r didn't necessarily introduce "Bob" arrogantly, but you did necessarily interpret it that way. You're projecting something onto his/her arguments that you don't actually know, namely an arrogant attitude.

Jaywalk3r has disclosed his/her difficulty in accurately projecting his/her attitude, knows interpretations will differ, and even apologized for a discrepancy between intention and interpretation. I interpret this as his/her having at least some self-awareness and humility.

You project attitudes and feelings that you don't know exist onto another person and admit to frustrating other people for your own entertainment. I interpret this as arrogance and lack of self-awareness. I doubt that this is how you want or intend to be interpreted.

Well it seems you'll have a better time communicating with him, so instead of trying to get him off the track he's taking (and not necessarily onto a specific track I'd like him to take, just to cease where he is), so I'll just leave him to you.

To be fair, I interpreted Jay's replies the same way. They seemed condescending and arrogant while accusing others of that behavior. I'm sure many of us struggle with setting the correct tone in our responses, but OP's messages seemed rather pointed in his attempts to discredit all conflicting viewpoints from a position of perceived arrogance.

That said, this is a little off topic and doesn't contribute much to the discussion of the original post.

Even if it's already slightly off topic compared to my on topic responses that he's making to be sooooooo evil, maybe megabigeye can have better luck with this guy.

Back on the topic of the post, Jaywalk3r, could you please explain the what you meant by "we" in the original post? Do you mean people as a whole, head-fi as a website, the headphones community, or what? This is my third attempt to solicit a response to this question.

He means the subforum headings.

 

[Jaywalk3r]

Back on the topic of the post, Jaywalk3r, could you please explain the what you meant by "we" in the original post? Do you mean people as a whole, head-fi as a website, the headphones community, or what?

Any or all. It doesn't really matter.

As I stated above, my intention was just to think about how and why we think about it in a certain way, in particular by form factor, when, in fact, very little relevant information is provided by form factor, compared to using other similarly simple factors.

Again, I should have posted in Sound Science, where questions tend to be considered objectively.

 

[Jaywalk3r]

I'd be genuinely interested to know how the Shozy compare to your other open cans, in particular the HD 650/6XX (I think you said you have those, right?). I'm skeptical, but interested. My mind just can't quite wrap around the notion of a small unsealed driver sounding comparable to a much larger unsealed driver, but like I said, I try to keep an open mind.

I've been listening to the Shozy for several hour hours each day, for six days, both at home and at the office, both places being reasonably quiet.

After the first evening with the Shozy, I haven't listened to any of my headphones, only my Shozy BK and my ER4XR. The Shozy is good for anything my open-back headphones do well, and it's far more comfortable, increasingly so as the hours pass. It's portable; I transport it to and from work. It is not, as discussed up-thread, mobile, since it provides no isolation. That's what the ER4XR is for.

It has clear highs and good bass extension, with phenomenal mids. It sits between the HD650 and the Grado SR325e. It's got just a hint of darkness and a tiny trace of "the Grado house sound." It highlights guitar & some other instruments the same way Grados do, without noticeably coloring stuff, unlike the Grados. I prefer the sound to either the HD650 or the SR325e, but that's completely subjective; YMMV.

I'll not be doing any head-to-head sound quality comparisons, because they would be sighted, and the samples would be too far apart in time after I switched 'phones, adjusted volume & gain, switched plugs, etc. I'd be able to hear anything I wanted to hear. That being said, I'm confident they perform at a similar level. I base that on how familiar albums sound when switching between Etymōtic and Shozy. The drop in sound quality when switching from the Ety to the Shozy doesn't seem any bigger than the drop going from the Ety to the HD650.

If you found yourself in the market for a 'phone for quiet room listening, and it fits your budget, you would be doing yourself a disservice to not include the BK among the models for further consideration. For that matter, there are probably other earbud models at similar price points that sound similarly as good (though I doubt the market is as saturated as for headphones).

Personally, I'm sold on the potential of earbuds. Presently there are many more premium open-back headphone options, but that seems to be changing, with some Asian countries widely adopting earbuds over open-back headphones for home personal hi-fi listening.

At any rate, I've ordered a second earbud, the Penon BS1 Official. It also has received very good reviews, and has a reputation for having a very wide soundstage.

 

[megabigeye]

Cool! I'm glad they're working out for you so well! I really don't have any need for another open 'phone, personally, but I can see an earbud being a viable replacement for my wife's HD 239 once those crap the bed. Or for my dad who occasionally uses (and struggles with inserting) Meelec A150 at his desk.

How are the headstage and dynamics? In particular the dynamics in the bass region? Those are two areas that I'd automatically assume a larger driver would be inherently better.

Also, for some reason I had not one, but two dreams about testing your Shozies. First one you sent them to me and they sounded like complete crap, especially in the bass, but I gave you the "well, I'm glad they work for you." I then woke up thinking maybe they just needed more power! The second one they sounded better and my sister was simultaneous nagging me to try them again and also to put away my pencils. My subconscious is a weird and wondrous place!

 

[Jaywalk3r]

Cool! I'm glad they're working out for you so well! I really don't have any need for another open 'phone, personally, but I can see an earbud being a viable replacement for my wife's HD 239 once those crap the bed. Or for my dad who occasionally uses (and struggles with inserting) Meelec A150 at his desk.

How are the headstage and dynamics? In particular the dynamics in the bass region? Those are two areas that I'd automatically assume a larger driver would be inherently better.

Also, for some reason I had not one, but two dreams about testing your Shozies. First one you sent them to me and they sounded like complete crap, especially in the bass, but I gave you the "well, I'm glad they work for you." I then woke up thinking maybe they just needed more power! The second one they sounded better and my sister was simultaneous nagging me to try them again and also to put away my pencils. My subconscious is a weird and wondrous place!

My reference for everything tends to be my Etymōtic Research ER4XR, because they're reference, except with bass ramped up, up to 6dB worth.

Listening to Angel Eyes (artist listed as "Bass and Saxophone" on Mirantz Hi-End Audiophile Test Demo CD 7), I hear the Shozy hit all of the notes the ER4XR hits, but the deepest (probably ~25-30 Hz ) seem to be rolled off slightly on the Shozy. The ER4XR does boost bass a little, so the slightly lower level of the Shozy isn't concerning. At safe-ish listening volumes in quiet listening environments, I'd not expect bass to be an issue. In a loud listening environment, I wouldn't expect the Shozy to be able to drown out the world as well as open-back headphones, e.g., HD650, particularly in the bass frequencies. But both are poor choices in such environments, at least w/r/t sound quality.

The headstage is noticeably better than the ER4XR, and probably a little bigger than my Grado SR325e, but it isn't unusually great. One of the reasons I decided to pick up the Penon BS1 is its reputation for a wide soundstage. I've never been as impressed with any 'phone's soundstage as I was with my HiFiMan RE-0 (presently misplaced). However, I've not compared it with the higher-end 'phones I now have. Maybe it was better than anything I've ever owned (as I remember); maybe it was just better than the mostly sub-$25 IEMs that comprised my collection when I made the purchase. Hopefully the BS1 will provide insight regarding my baseline.

Overall, the most impressive thing about the Shozy is that it doesn't leave me wanting anything compared to listening to my headphones. I don't notice a lack of bass. There's good clarity, without excessive emphasis to the treble. (I have a low tolerance for sibilance.) Mids don't sound at all thin. If the performance is good enough that I have to make careful comparisons to notice differences, those differences aren't going to have much, if any, effect on my listening enjoyment.

Note that most of my listening has been done with full Heigl (sp?) foams installed. The Shozy shipped with donut foams. I also tried with the donuts installed over the full foams, but it caused a hotspot on my left ear, so I removed the donuts.

Something worth mentioning about the BK in particular is the cable. The full braid has no sheathing, but it feels and looks like rope, the braid is so fine. There's been no hint of tangling thus far. Overlooking the fact it's not removable/replaceable, I wouldn't expect such a nice cable at this price point.