[gregorio]

[1] All in all if you enjoy the cheap USB sound perhaps you have no noise or do not realise it is present. [2] I now go direct USB to DAC no network no noise.

1. There is no cheap or expensive USB sound, there are no expensive or cheap sounding zeros or ones, just zeros and ones. If there were expensive and cheap sounding zeros and ones then by definition it would not be digital audio (or digital data of any kind) and likewise, it would not be USB.
It really is quite shocking the number of people here who apparently do not know what digital means???

2. If your DAC really is producing spurious audible noise from a USB specification signal (transferred by a standard USB compliant cable) then your DAC is not USB compliant and is therefore not a USB DAC! You've either been unlucky and got a faulty USB DAC or you've been scammed by a company selling a DAC as USB compliant which isn't.

G

 

[Clive101]

Interesting reply @gregorio
I always thought that zeros and ones that you refer to was a wave-form sent down the cable to represent zeros and ones....?
I had noise entering my DAC ( Chord Dave ) not sure RF or electrical noise but some USB cables handled the noise better than others and hence sounded better.
For example the standard USB printer cable from a pc transmits zeros and ones sounded rubbish whereas a Chord Music USB sounded subline.
I also tested with a Tours power conditioner this also improved the zeros and ones.
I can only say if zeros and ones were the only thing being transmitted there would be no change but there was a monumental change in SQ using the different USB cables and power supply.
If you have no difference in your system you have no interference from RF or electrical noise or equipment which may not show the difference...?

 

[Arpiben]

Hi @Clive101,

Let's remind that the main role of a digital transport, in our case USB Audio, is to carry the data keeping its integrity from A to B. As soon as USB transmitter/Receiver and cable are compliant with specifications 0s and 1s will arrive at B unchanged.
Using fancy cables to correct other deficiencies( DC power/ EMI/RFI / ground currents or loops/ DAC or DAP noises ) is IMHO not the most efficient cure.

When listening to my Chord Mojo while AC/DC charging it through USB if I happen to touch any metallic piece of my headphone/cable/Mojo I clearly hear a loud 50Hz humm. Am I wearing gloves, buying USB cables costing half of my DAC in order to lower it? Am I changing my body resistance to ground? No, since I learnt to live with my equipment weaknesses I simply unplug the power socket.....
Rgds

 

[gregorio]

[1] I always thought that zeros and ones that you refer to was a wave-form sent down the cable to represent zeros and ones....?
[2] For example the standard USB printer cable from a pc transmits zeros and ones sounded rubbish whereas a Chord Music USB sounded subline. ... I also tested with a Tours power conditioner this also improved the zeros and ones.
[3] I can only say if zeros and ones were the only thing being transmitted there would be no change but there was a monumental change in SQ using the different USB cables and power supply.
[4] If you have no difference in your system you have no interference from RF or electrical noise or equipment which may no show the difference...?

1. Not an audio waveform. It's just an on/off voltage which is transmitted along a USB cable as an "eye pattern", the properties of which are specified as part of the USB specification and which a cable has to comply with in order to be a certified USB cable.
2. Again, there can be no difference between a rubbish "1" and an expensive "1" or a rubbish "zero" and an expensive "zero". Digital data is a binary (1 or 0) system, your definition of digital data would need at least a quarternary system (rubbish 1, expensive 1, rubbish 0, expensive zero). Even if an audiophile USB cable could turn a rubbish "1" into an expensive "1" it cannot make any difference because as far as digital data is concerned a rubbish "1" and an expensive "1" are both exactly the same thing, just a "1"! This of course is the great advantage of digital audio over analogue audio and why it was developed in the first place!
3. Along with the actual data, the USB specification also allows for a power supply. There have been some cases of audiophile DACs which improperly handled that power and allowed it to create noise in their analogue stages. These DACs are obviously failing to correctly deal with the USB specification. This issue has nothing to do with the integrity of the digital data itself.

4. Yes, I've got very significant RF and equipment noise (both electrical and acoustic) from stacks of equipment. So much so that I need a dedicated machine room to house it all. As well as my 3 x 16 channel pro ADC/DACs, 3 workstations, amps and all the masses of other equipment piled into that room, I've got a cheap little pro audio stereo USB ADC/DAC connected with an Amazon Basics USB cable and no spurious noise! And, I most certainly do have the audio environment/equipment to show the noise if there were any.

G

 

[Clive101]

@gregorio and @Arpiben
Thanks for your very detailed replies but i can only trust my ears.
A cheap USB cable sounded rubbish the Chord Music I ended up with was the best followed by Sarum T and close or tie was the curious cable.
I did try cheaper USB cables but to my ears which I trust were a no go but would have been cheaper....!
If you found a Cheap USB cable ok then great.
Have you all tried different USB cables ...?
At many HiFi shows you can hear demos of different USB cables they do sound different on the same equipment

 

[chef8489]

@gregorio and @Arpiben
Thanks for your very detailed replies but i can only trust my ears.
A cheap USB cable sounded rubbish the Chord Music I ended up with was the best followed by Sarum T and close or tie was the curious cable.
I did try cheaper USB cables but to my ears which I trust were a no go but would have been cheaper....!
If you found a Cheap USB cable ok then great.
Have you all tried different USB cables ...?
At many HiFi shows you can hear demos of different USB cables they do sound different on the same equipment

Guarentee you would not be able to tell the difference in a controlled double blind test setup by someone other than you.

 

[gregorio]

@gregorio and @Arpiben
[1] Thanks for your very detailed replies but i can only trust my ears.
[2] A cheap USB cable sounded rubbish the Chord Music I ended up with was the best followed by Sarum T and close or tie was the curious cable. I did try cheaper USB cables but to my ears which I trust were a no go but would have been cheaper....!
[3] If you found a Cheap USB cable ok then great. Have you all tried different USB cables ...?

1. Those of us who create audio content for a living absolutely rely on the fact that you cannot trust your ears. If you really could trust your ears then almost none of the commercial audio content you hear every day would make any sense at all and music would not exist for you.
2. Then either your perception of what you thought you heard was temporarily fooled, the USB cable was faulty, broken or not a USB cable or your DAC has a fairly serious flaw/fault.
3. Not only did it sound OK but it transferred bit perfect results and as far as digital data is concerned, a USB cable by definition cannot get any better than that! Having said that, I have heard an expensive audiophile cable USB and compared it with a cheap/standard one.

G

 

[Clive101]

Guarentee you would not be able to tell the difference in a controlled double blind test setup by someone other than you.

Rubbish comment
Not worthy of a reply

 

[chef8489]

Rubbish comment
Not worthy of a reply

It is not a rubbish comment. It has been proven time and time again in tests. Once you rule out the visual factor and you knowing which cable you are listening to. You can not tell the difference if done properly by a 3rd party not trying to sell cables.

 

[Clive101]

1. Those of us who create audio content for a living absolutely rely on the fact that you cannot trust your ears. If you really could trust your ears then almost none of the commercial audio content you hear every day would make any sense at all and music would not exist for you.
2. Then either your perception of what you thought you heard was temporarily fooled, the USB cable was faulty, broken or not a USB cable or your DAC has a fairly serious flaw/fault.
3. Not only did it sound OK but it transferred bit perfect results and as far as digital data is concerned, a USB cable by definition cannot get any better than that! Having said that, I have heard an expensive audiophile cable USB and compared it with a cheap/standard one.

G

Rubbish reply

 

[Clive101]

It is not a rubbish comment. It has been proven time and time again in tests. Once you rule out the visual factor and you knowing which cable you are listening to. You can not tell the difference if done properly by a 3rd party not trying to sell cables.

So you know what I hear as others who also confirmed Night and day differance no need for the double blind test waste of time.
Stay with your USB and move on.

 

[gregorio]

Rubbish reply

Why, because you are incapable of understanding it or because you're too invested in your faulty DAC and marketing driven wasted purchase of an expensive cable to even consider the actual facts?

G

 

[Clive101]

Why, because you are incapable of understanding it or because you're too invested in your faulty DAC and marketing driven wasted purchase of an expensive cable to even consider the actual facts?

G

I understand you are incapable of understanding what I hear as others do on my system as you have not had the privilege. If your DAC sounds good to you with your cheap USB so be it.

 

[gregorio]

I understand you are incapable of understanding what I hear as others do on my system as you have not had the privilege. If your DAC sounds good to you with your cheap USB so be it.

If your faulty DAC (or other system component/s) and expensive cable sound good to you and your happy about it, then that's a little strange but entirely up to you. Listening to a faulty system is hardly a "privilege" though, quite the opposite! A privilege as far as I'm concerned is a non faulty DAC/system, bit perfect cables and controlled, highly accurate listening environments.

I still don't know which of those two options is your problem for sure but your response indicates the latter or maybe both!

G

EDIT: And by the way, in case it isn't already clear, my "cheap USB cable" transfers data bit perfectly and is therefore at least as good or better than your audiophile USB cable. Your USB cable CANNOT be better than mine because there is nothing better than bit perfect transfer!!!

 

[Clive101]

If your faulty DAC (or other system component/s) and expensive cable sound good to you and your happy about it, then that's a little strange but entirely up to you. Listening to a faulty system is hardly a "privilege" though, quite the opposite! A privilege as far as I'm concerned is a non faulty DAC/system, bit perfect cables and controlled, highly accurate listening environments.

I still don't know which of those two options is your problem for sure but your response indicates the latter or maybe both!

G

So my system is faulty and you deduce that because I use a high quality USB lead ( which sounds better ) rather than a Cheap USB cable.
Well your intitled to your opinion and wish you best of luck with your DAC and cheap USB cable.