[subtle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif You should hear one! There's a reason they've in production for almost 50 years and are a longtime studio standard. I will have pairs at the LA meet and CanJam 2009. I think a lot of people are going to realize the DT48 is overlooked.

It's on my list for sure, albeit not quite near the top, but I'm in no way expecting it to compete with the likes of the HE90/R10/Qualia. I think that's just taking it a bit overboard. If they were truly at that level there would be far more praise to be found for them on this forum, not to mention more than a handful of owners.

I'm really looking forward to those impressions now. If I see the more experienced users/owners here chiming in with their own DT48 revelation, I will be the first to eat crow and admit to my ignorant assumption.

 

[Chu]

I think because, honestly, rarity adds a lot to the perceived value, and that doesn't exist while they're in production.

If you search back on headwize you can find discussion about cans like the R-10 and K1000 while they were still available at retail, including comparison with other high end cans you can still get (HD600 the most prevalent example).

Opinions then were very different than opinions now. The sound however is the same.

Of course I am sort of curious what determines if a headphone goes on to be a legend or not. The CD3000 was an incredibly well received headphone by a large chunk of the head-fi audience, a lot of people ditching their high end cans for it. These days you never even hear them mentioned though.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's on my list for sure, albeit not quite near the top, but I'm in no way expecting it to compete with the likes of the HE90/R10/Qualia. I think that's just taking it a bit overboard. If they were truly at that level there would be far more praise to be found for them on this forum, not to mention more than a handful of owners. I'm really looking forward to those impressions now. If I see the more experienced users/owners here chiming in with their own DT48 revelation, I will be the first to eat crow and admit to my ignorant assumption.

A non beleiver is among us. I seldom go overboard, sir.. It is I who insist that in the grand sceheme of things, the 880s /650/sa5000/701s/ are mid fi cans in Hi end clothing. I have heard the K1000,. And the 48s are in that league, albeit totally different sounding. Id bet my life these can hang with the big boys in regards to detail and midrange, and better them in some areas. If they are so great why are they not popular? The A models are made for aural investigations.. They are metric audio headphones, used for ENT specialist, hearing test, etc.. Now the E models are used for musical applications..But is marketed more to proffesional then the casual music listener. And Beyer is smart enough to realize that the GP would not like this headphone at all. It's as musical as a corpse, and has a very industrial look and build to it. I did enjoy music with these.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think because, honestly, rarity adds a lot to the perceived value, and that doesn't exist while they're in production. If you search back on headwize you can find discussion about cans like the R-10 and K1000 while they were still available at retail, including comparison with other high end cans you can still get (HD600 the most prevalent example). Opinions then were very different than opinions now. The sound however is the same. Of course I am sort of curious what determines if a headphone goes on to be a legend or not. The CD3000 was an incredibly well received headphone by a large chunk of the head-fi audience, a lot of people ditching their high end cans for it. These days you never even hear them mentioned though.

Rarity does add to the perceived value, but over the years, more and better amp choices, along with many owners upgrading sources, total system matching, etc. have brought out the real value in some of these headphones. For example, it wasn't until a couple years ago that the best amp choices for the K1000s were really being explored, and same with the R10s. I've been lucky enough to hear all of the ones usually named (HE90s, K1000s, HP2, PS1s, R10s, etc) except Qualias (couldn't get a fit) from a few different rigs and own/owned a couple (R10s, K1000s, O2 MK1s). It's noticeable from any adequate system that these headphones are a cut above the rest, but the differences between a good system and a great system are what put and has kept these headphones in their current status. It's sad that they're no longer available, but the sq speaks for itself regardless.

The CD3000 is a really nice headphone, but I wouldn't put it up there with the big boys.

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think because, honestly, rarity adds a lot to the perceived value, and that doesn't exist while they're in production. If you search back on headwize you can find discussion about cans like the R-10 and K1000 while they were still available at retail, including comparison with other high end cans you can still get (HD600 the most prevalent example). Opinions then were very different than opinions now. The sound however is the same. Of course I am sort of curious what determines if a headphone goes on to be a legend or not. The CD3000 was an incredibly well received headphone by a large chunk of the head-fi audience, a lot of people ditching their high end cans for it. These days you never even hear them mentioned though.

This is a very good point. I'd bet you are right, too. Especially considering some comments from new owners of the rare cans.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DefectiveAudioComponent /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is a very good point. I'd bet you are right, too. Especially considering some comments from new owners of the rare cans.

Excitement of getting new cans is one thing and lends itself to hyperbole across the board, but have you actually heard the ones for which you so readily make such a conclusion? If not, I wouldn't be so sure when making your bets.

 

[Oublie]

Well I don't know about shameless plug as mentioned earlier as I don't own any high end phones but it interests me that your responses brought up a few i'd never heard which i may try. Seriously though given the choice to buy a set of K2000's if they existed for around the price of say the hd-650's wouldn't you give them a try? Personally I think it's that human drive to have better than best i.e. the bigger better version of whatever it is we seek that makes us crave the unobtainable. I love my phones but i want better same as i love my car but want better and so on. I got into headfi a few months ago due to personal circumstances where headphones were the better choice. I bought a pair of ultrasones based on what i read and discovered head-fi I was gobsmacked when i heard them for the first time. within a few weeks i had a set of electrostats and now dont use the ultrasone at all. It would probably be the same if something better came my way I just wish now that there was as much development and choice in the headphone market as there is with speakers.

 

[zmorris]

I made a similar post about the lack of headphone innovation a while ago, too. Not only do I think it's because everything is mass produced with nearly no oversight in design and quality control, but also it's rare nowadays to find someone with an equivalent skillset and experience as the designers and developers who worked on the R10s, Qualias, K1000 and other highly regarded phones.

What ever happened to those original designers and developers, and how old do you think they are now? Let's just hope that they've passed on their knowledge to younger generations before disappearing into obscurity. How else would the younger generation learn about designing headphones without the costly R&D? They don't teach headphone design in university.

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Excitement of getting new cans is one thing and lends itself to hyperbole across the board, but have you actually heard the ones for which you so readily make such a conclusion? If not, I wouldn't be so sure when making your bets.

No, a bet is not a conclusion. If I had heard them I would not make bets, then I would make conclusions. One doesn't have to try everything to make a bet.

 

[Duggeh]

There are just as many if not more, statement level headphone products available now as there are in the lists of discontinuum..

Discontinued:

SR-Omega, HE90, HE60, Qualia 010, R10, PS-1, HP-1000, K1000, L3000, Edition 7

Available:

SR-007 (although the Mk.2 isn't as good as the Mk.1 by all reports), Ergo AMT, 4070, HE Jade, Edition 9, H2, GS1000, W5000, JVC Victor DX1000, Denon D7000 (has anyone heard this one yet?), and by, if you'll take enthusiastic sheep follow in the upsurge FOTM feeling, the Beyerdyanmic DT-48.


So there are just as many out there just now as there have been in the past,

The difference is that a lot of whats peak just now of it simply isn't loved in the same way as whats gone before. One might hypothesise that once the Ergo AMT and the GS1000 are discontinued, they will go the way of the L3000 and the R10, and inflate in subsequent perception, the issues which might have plauged their earlier lives solved by sufficient time and experience. Who can say.

 

[baka1969]

Not all products are easily mass produced. Not and have the ability to maintain high quality standards.

Some products benefit from it like the original Model T. Others like a Patek minute repeater wristwatch can't be.

 

[Chu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Rarity does add to the perceived value, but over the years, more and better amp choices, along with many owners upgrading sources, total system matching, etc. have brought out the real value in some of these headphones.

I'm not saying this isn't true, in fact I was tempted to put a huge disclaimer on that statement since amps like the F1 wern't around when the K1000 was around. I sort of wonder if the K1000 might still be in production today if it has a suitable amp at the time, since most headphiles really seemed to dislike the K1000 on first listen and that couldn't have been good for sales.

I honestly think the K1000 really is an exception in this regard though, and the statement holds true for most other revered OOP headphones.

Quote:

The CD3000 is a really nice headphone, but I wouldn't put it up there with the big boys.

That's the thing, people say this now, but when they were in print they were considered up there with the big boys, in a way that followups like the sa5000 are not. They were called by some, 80-90% of the R10 at about 20% of the price. Given the value of the R10's, well . . .

 

[Kernmac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nocturnal310 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now look at Bose... none of them need an Amp, all of them look expensive and are stylish is design. people dont really care about Sound quality u know. they care about looks & the feel. Hence mainstream population either buys skullcandy or Bose.

I'm not sure where this statement fits on this thread, however it is a throw away line. Sennheiser sales to main-stream population would trounce both Skullcandy and Bose put together. I'm not talking HD650s, but PXs and lower end HDs. Mianstream buy what is readily available and Senns are everywhere.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Excitement of getting new cans is one thing and lends itself to hyperbole across the board, but have you actually heard the ones for which you so readily make such a conclusion? If not, I wouldn't be so sure when making your bets.

I assume you are talking to me? Just 2 of the legends I heard. But I have listened to many of the current hi end headphones and the 48s are clearly a step above in many areas. And ask the 3 other owners how they stack up with big boys. Erik said the 48s midrange best the K1000/HP-2. Since I listened to the K1000 I would also agree. They probably have more faults then the legends so pick your poison. Either way, you have never heard anything like them.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oublie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well I don't know about shameless plug as mentioned earlier as I don't own any high end phones but it interests me that your responses brought up a few i'd never heard which i may try. Seriously though given the choice to buy a set of K2000's if they existed for around the price of say the hd-650's wouldn't you give them a try? Personally I think it's that human drive to have better than best i.e. the bigger better version of whatever it is we seek that makes us crave the unobtainable. I love my phones but i want better same as i love my car but want better and so on. I got into headfi a few months ago due to personal circumstances where headphones were the better choice. I bought a pair of ultrasones based on what i read and discovered head-fi I was gobsmacked when i heard them for the first time. within a few weeks i had a set of electrostats and now dont use the ultrasone at all. It would probably be the same if something better came my way I just wish now that there was as much development and choice in the headphone market as there is with speakers.

When you think about it, there can never be a headphone that has the best midrange. Too many preferences. But with things like detail there can be a best headphone for that. Do I want the 48s to be the most detailed dynamic headphone ever? No. There would be nothing to shoot for. But since my source is the PS3, I'm sure a good CDP will help the cans reveal even more. Same with the amp. I'm looking at the Oppo 970 or 980. And I want the KICAS amp.