[HeatFan12]

Quote:

As for the music I listen to: Pretty much everything with no excessive screaming/yelling (basically emo + some types of metal)

My advice to you SBFE, is to flatten your EQ, get rid of all the DSPs and put on some Opeth....You'll be in musical bliss...

Enjoy your cans....

 

[shake]

How does the EQ and DSP degrade SQ?

 

[rds]

 

[jageur272]

SQ is subjective.

However, EQ's compress or stretch waveforms and digital enhancements will always have loss of data as the data is transformed. EQ's are generally frowned upon because you lose nuances in the data. Using an EQ is like stretching or shrinking a JPG image file; you'll end up with extrapolation of what's supposed to go where and in the end, it doesn't look as sharp as it was originally. I use my foobar with a crossfeed DSP, but in general, the less that you have to mess with the signal itself, the more "pure" the feed will be. Sound is your perception of air pressure waves; if you like what you hear, that's great for you!

 

[Orcin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Mostro /img/forum/go_quote.gif "Yall"? Hee ****ing haw! Couldn't resist.

Y'all is the plural of "you". It was used in the correct context.

 

[moonboy403]

The HD280 is a decent headphone (with some glaring faults such as its piercing treble) for the price I got ($60). I strongly believe that I have heard the HD280 in all its glory as I held on to my pair for over a year in addition to feeding it with the Phoenix (amp) and ECD1 (source).

However, given all that, there are much better headphones out there whether it's open, closed, or even IEM for that matter.

 

[Head_case]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shake babies for exercise /img/forum/go_quote.gif How does the EQ and DSP degrade SQ?

I've lost track of this thread over the pages.....so back in late here!

Generally, direct source (cutting out the photoshop circuit to enhance and shape the sound) gives a purer and faithful transcription of what is recorded .

When I had a magnificent Aiwa 5 multi-changer CD with flashing disco lights and quadruple bass boost as a teenager, it felt like it was the best system in the world!

Its sound processing gives that thump and bass which kids like. I suppose what's changed over the years is taste. I like the record sounding more like it was intended. A graphic equalizer is inserted into the circuit between the CD and output - so I guess it is less faithful that way .

FWIW, my hi-fi system doesn't have a graphic equaliser - it's direct source only, one of the Musical Fidelity things about 'sound fidelity'. I don't need it either, and the 280Pros sound great on a cheap headphone amp like the Musical Fidelity X-Cans v2. The impedance of the 280Pros are 64 ohms - they should be easy to drive without amp, but honestly, I prefer it amp'd, and that's when the sound of the 280Pros really shine.

Righteousball didn't appreciate this sexy singer on the mini-disc thread that won't die (he don't know what he's missing

):

Well coming to think of it, neither did the critics who just didn't 'get her' latest release! The album is positively sensuous on the 280Pros. Anyone who has a pair which they don't believe merit keeping, should listen to 'Jasmine Flower'. The soundstaging on the 280Pros is really wide and Heather's frail and delicate soaring voice backed acoustically only by guitar and cello, really takes on a sonic dimension which I can't fathom at all with my Sennheiser HD25MarkII's. I'm sure some of the audiophile high end fodder listeners such as the HD650s would find it even more attractive with an open backed sound staging, however the 280Pro really makes this an album of sensuous and hypnotic listening. There is no piercing treble nor siblance on my pair either (which hasn't been fully run in!!!). There is incredible resolution though. At times it is so different from what I'm used to, I'm finding myself listening to new things in music. Not bad for such a cheap pair of quality built headphones...

Well I am mystified about the criticisms of this set of headphones too. For US$75-100, some of which seem to be based on a set of headphones which haven't been run in sufficiently; others based on unamp'd experiences, and more yet based on a preference for the Aiwa/Sony DJ Techno thump trend in sonic imaging.

 

[shake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpippel /img/forum/go_quote.gif There was no hypocrisy in my statement. I pointed out that if you have to EQ your source bits so much to make those HD280s sound good to you then maybe the people who think they're not very good headphones are correct. I'm firmly in the "source to amp with as little processing as possible" camp because that works best and sounds best to me. Doesn't mean you're wrong and I'm right, it just means we have different approaches. So I'll ask you again - if you're happy with your current headphone rig why do you seem so bent on defending it? Here's my advice if you want to save your retirement fund - be satisfied with your current HD280 happiness and forget you ever came here and asked that question. Run away. Quickly. If you don't then you'll probably soon discover why the Head-Fi greeting to new recruits is "Welcome, and sorry about your wallet!"

I wasn't trying to come of as defending my current headphone rig. I raised this question to help find my bearing in the audiophile world. And why would I run from this world? Ignorance is bliss, but I'm already FUBARed

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbacic /img/forum/go_quote.gif so you listen to music with just a bit of screaming

Dunno if I made that clear, or if you just wanted to do some undercover detective work. I mean that I listen to all types of music. The only music I don't listen to has excessive screaming/yelling in it. That includes basically emo + types of metal.
Quote:

Originally Posted by HeatFan12 /img/forum/go_quote.gif My advice to you SBFE, is to flatten your EQ, get rid of all the DSPs and put on some Opeth....You'll be in musical bliss...

I'll give a listen to them

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif Generally, direct source (cutting out the photoshop circuit to enhance and shape the sound) gives a purer and faithful transcription of what is recorded . FWIW, my hi-fi system doesn't have a graphic equalizer - it's direct source only, one of the Musical Fidelity things about 'sound fidelity'. I don't need it either, and the 280Pros sound great on a cheap headphone amp like the Musical Fidelity X-Cans v2. The impedance of the 280Pros are 64 ohms - they should be easy to drive without amp, but honestly, I prefer it amp'd, and that's when the sound of the 280Pros really shine. Righteousball didn't appreciate this sexy singer on the mini-disc thread that won't die (he don't know what he's missing ): Well coming to think of it, neither did the critics who just didn't 'get her' latest release! The album is positively sensuous on the 280Pros. Anyone who has a pair which they don't believe merit keeping, should listen to 'Jasmine Flower'. The soundstaging on the 280Pros is really wide and Heather's frail and delicate soaring voice backed acoustically only by guitar and cello, really takes on a sonic dimension which I can't fathom at all with my Sennheiser HD25MarkII's. I'm sure some of the audiophile high end fodder listeners such as the HD650s would find it even more attractive with an open backed sound staging, however the 280Pro really makes this an album of sensuous and hypnotic listening. There is no piercing treble nor siblance on my pair either (which hasn't been fully run in!!!). There is incredible resolution though. At times it is so different from what I'm used to, I'm finding myself listening to new things in music. Not bad for such a cheap pair of quality built headphones... Well I am mystified about the criticisms of this set of headphones too. For US$75-100, some of which seem to be based on a set of headphones which haven't been run in sufficiently; others based on unamp'd experiences, and more yet based on a preference for the Aiwa/Sony DJ Techno thump trend in sonic imaging.

But what if using photoshop makes the image much more appealing? You can do a lot with in image in photoshop. Is resampling also a no-no? And it's nice to see another Heather Nova fan. Have you heard "Renegade"? She truly has a beautiful voice and is one of my favorite female vocalists.

From this thread, I've gotten recommendations of the ES7, AD700, and are looking into these. I am currently in the market for closed, circum-aural headphones. If there are any suggestions at a cost that is worth the extra over the $50 it will cost me for replacement drivers for my HD280s, PLEASE share.

 

[Lunatique]

Before I heard the HD280 Pro in person, I've already seen many people raving about how great it is for an entry-level full-sized headphone. After I heard it, I was very disappointed. The sound is boxy, the bass is anemic, and overall sound was nowhere near accurate or neutral, not to mention it is uncomfortable to wear due to the way it clamps. I've tested the HD280 Pro twice since then against a bunch of other headphones, and it is always near the bottom of the pile at the end of the day in terms of sonic quality and comfort. It has NEVER shown itself to be a contender--at least for me.

For similar price, the Equation RP-21 beats the HD280 Pro into a bloody pulp. The HD555 can also be found for fairly cheap price, and that kicks the crap out of the HD280 Pro as well. Some places even sell the Audio-Technica ATH-M50 for much lower price than suggested retail, and the M50 will absolutely destroy the HD280 pro in every single way possible.

 

[shake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatique /img/forum/go_quote.gif Before I heard the HD280 Pro in person, I've already seen many people raving about how great it is for an entry-level full-sized headphone. After I heard it, I was very disappointed. The sound is boxy, the bass is anemic, and overall sound was nowhere near accurate or neutral, not to mention it is uncomfortable to wear due to the way it clamps. I've tested the HD280 Pro twice since then against a bunch of other headphones, and it is always near the bottom of the pile at the end of the day in terms of sonic quality and comfort. It has NEVER shown itself to be a contender--at least for me. For similar price, the Equation RP-21 beats the HD280 Pro into a bloody pulp. The HD555 can also be found for fairly cheap price, and that kicks the crap out of the HD280 Pro as well. Some places even sell the Audio-Technica ATH-M50 for much lower price than suggested retail, and the M50 will absolutely destroy the HD280 pro in every single way possible.

Just checked out the Equation RP-21. Never heard the name before, but wow, they look beautiful. I also noticed the RP-22x for the same price, do you have any info off the top of your head? The Equations and the M50 are circumaural right? Sometimes pictures can be decieving.

 

[Head_case]

Lunatique - what kind of music and system are you running?

I felt that way about the 280Pros for a few hours when listening to modern rock music.

Just wondering if anyone who has the 280Pros has listened to classical music, and not liked them? Or are most of the the disheartened 280Pro users, listening to mostly modern/rock/drum n bass stuff?

The Equation and ATs have many good things going for them too. But soundstage? Do you honestly think either's soundstage is as dramatic as the 280Pros for a closed back design?

Just wondering....it's kind of amusing seeing how headphones can generate so much differences of opinions. I think that's a good thing really...

 

[Head_case]

Quote:

But what if using photoshop makes the image much more appealing? You can do a lot with in image in photoshop. Is resampling also a no-no? And it's nice to see another Heather Nova fan. Have you heard "Renegade"? She truly has a beautiful voice and is one of my favorite female vocalists.

I guess it depends if you like the purity of a more visceral and tactile analogue sound, or a more processed digital sound. Some of us like French cuisine, cooked on site, and others like MacDonalds. (Oops - I always get called elitist for this kind of comparison). Some of my favourite music by Sam Phillips, has her dubbing over her own vocals. The effect is so eery! She has a polytonal approach to harmonising with her own vocals and doing 'ghost-vocals' that create a soundscape as haunting and mysterious as you'll ever find in western music. I personally don't find photoshop interesting, especially if it overcooks the sunsets into jaundice yellow and tries to add "bling!" for punch. Those marketing tactics are best reserved for errr...people who think mini-disc is a dead format I like natural! I like organic! I like homegrown; grass roots; I like organic music (live) best, and I can put up with a few dressings of synthetic edits and dubs, but I don't want to eating a plateful of edits and dubs for a main course!

Well back to Heather Nova ~ yeah ~ Renegade came out in a gazillion mixes. This is a good case track to test with the HD280Pros: if you have heard the ATB version of Renegade, on my unamp'd 280Pros, the synth start, actually sounds like it is farting through the headphones. Amp it, and it deepens with dimension. The straight track version is punchy and vibrant unamped; whereas the Ronski Speed Remix has the best intro, only to descend to the synth 'farting' in the track, instead of sounding like a syncopated breach (the Renegade) in the convention of the musical melody.

The sound throughout all the remixes of Renegade is spacious and dramatic: especially the Airplay Mix. It's just the bass response which is sorely lacking compared to easier to drive headphones like the Sennheisers HD25 Mark IIs. This is my reference pair of headphones for punchy remix music like this. It's not too expensive; it's affordable and accessible and anything that is better than the HD25 Mark IIs cost substantially more to make a 2% improvement.

Yeah - I missed Heather Nova live in London this year. I love her vocals and acoustic stuff: when she released "Siren", she really came into her own, especially with the B tracks from her singles, from which you could re-assemble a complete acoustic album with just Heather, her guitar and cello. Her voice works best for me with just those two instruments. Her dance remix stuff is fun, but it's not the stuff I listen to after 10 years

Quote:

From this thread, I've gotten recommendations of the ES7, AD700, and are looking into these. I am currently in the market for closed, circum-aural headphones. If there are any suggestions at a cost that is worth the extra over the $50 it will cost me for replacement drivers for my HD280s, PLEASE share.

AD700s - mixed feelings. They cost as much as Sennheisers HD25 Mark IIs here (if you're a poor shopper). Try the HD25 Mark IIs!!! I think you'll reallly love them

 

[shake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lunatique - what kind of music and system are you running? I felt that way about the 280Pros for a few hours when listening to modern rock music. Just wondering if anyone who has the 280Pros has listened to classical music, and not liked them? Or are most of the the disheartened 280Pro users, listening to mostly modern/rock/drum n bass stuff? The Equation and ATs have many good things going for them too. But soundstage? Do you honestly think either's soundstage is as dramatic as the 280Pros for a closed back design? Just wondering....it's kind of amusing seeing how headphones can generate so much differences of opinions. I think that's a good thing really...

Well crap, right when I was about to decide between the RP-21 and the M50, you had to go and bring up another variable. Explain what you mean by "do you honestly think either's soundstage is as dramatic as the 280pros for a closed back design?" The 'channel mixer' DSP for foobar also allows you to adjust 'stereoimage width'. Increasing this actually makes the HD280s feel more open.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif AD700s - mixed feelings. They cost as much as Sennheisers HD25 Mark IIs here (if you're a poor shopper). Try the HD25 Mark IIs!!! I think you'll reallly love them

Yeah I'm seeing both for about $100. I've heard lots of magical things about the hd25, but I'm really looking for circumaural phones

.

 

[Head_case]

It's okay - the RP-21s and M50s are closed back design headphones too.

Put your 280Pros on and listen to some music. Close your eyes, and try and spatially position where the instruments are, in your head.

Put on a pair of crappy iPod in-ear phones and then try and do the same.

The soundstage - the sense of 'space' where the music is being played, tends to be constricted in closed headphone designs compared to open headphone designs like the HD650s. An open design, usually enables better sound staging and a greater sense of 'presence' of the instruments and music being played. With closed backs, it can sound claustrophic, or too intense, like....'in yer face', to the point that it becomes limiting or uncomfortable to listen over extended periods.

The HD25IIs are remarkable in this respect - there is less fatigue, but admittedly, their soundstaging is compressed imho. The 280Pros - are far more 'open' and spacious than the HD25IIs. I don't think the same is the case for either the ATs or the Equations. Both of those headphones cost waaayyyyy more than my 280Pros. You'd expect them to be substantially better. They are better in some ways, but it's not as conclusive as some of the 280Pro critics are trying to paint..

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shake babies for exercise /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just checked out the Equation RP-21. Never heard the name before, but wow, they look beautiful. I also noticed the RP-22x for the same price, do you have any info off the top of your head? The Equations and the M50 are circumaural right? Sometimes pictures can be decieving.

The RP-22X are supposed to be RP-21's with enhanced bass from what I've read, but I haven't seen or heard them in person. I think the RP-21's bass is neutral enough--hyping it more would compromise the neutrality/accuracy of the sound. I believe in accuracy and neutrality, not hyped sound, just like how I prefer neutral and accurate color reproduction from my TV and display, with no color cast.

Both are circumaural. They do not touch your ears--the pads go around your ears. But with the RP-21, it's donut shaped and not as comfortable as the M50, and also does not sound as accurate as the M50. If you can find the M50 for the same price as the RP-21, then it's a no-brainer--get the M50 instead.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lunatique - what kind of music and system are you running?

I listen to very eclectic range of music--everything under the sun. I don't use headphone for critical monitoring and mixing when I'm working on audio productions, but for leisure listening and gaming late at night, I do, the TC Electronic Konnket Live is perhaps the better piece of interface in my setup.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just wondering if anyone who has the 280Pros has listened to classical music, and not liked them? Or are most of the the disheartened 280Pro users, listening to mostly modern/rock/drum n bass stuff?

I could never understand the mentality that one should pair certain genres of music with certain sound devices. A good sound reproduction device should be able to reproduce any musical style to satisfactory level, and if not, it's time to upgrade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Equation and ATs have many good things going for them too. But soundstage? Do you honestly think either's soundstage is as dramatic as the 280Pros for a closed back design?

I can't remember what the soundstage is like on the HD280 Pro, but to me, accurate and neutral frequency response is far more important than soundstage IMO. Even if the 280 has a better soundstage, its poor frequency response compared to the M50 and RP-21 still keeps it on the floor, with the M50 and RP-21's feet firmly planted on its neck and groin.