Why do some of yall look down on the HD280s?

[jageur272]

The HD280's had a quite compressed soundstage IMO (Yes, I listened to quite a bit of classical). In fact, the only closed can I've heard with good soundstage is the Beyer DT150 (which can be found for as low as $80 on the FS forums and can sound fantastic for classical with sufficient tweaking). Compared to other <$100 closed cans (namely the ATH-ES7), they have mediocre (meaning average) soundstage; the ES7 has just about none.

Also, the HD25-II are the same headphones (soundwise) as the HD25. I think the only difference is the removable cord. (ask our resident Senn rep, John Willett

 

[Pincher]

Why do some of yall look down on the HD280s?

Because, after spending the $$ for the Grado PS1000s....I have the right.


/sarcasm

 

[Head_case]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jageur272 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The HD280's had a quite compressed soundstage IMO (Yes, I listened to quite a bit of classical). In fact, the only closed can I've heard with good soundstage is the Beyer DT150 (which can be found for as low as $80 on the FS forums and can sound fantastic for classical with sufficient tweaking). Compared to other <$100 closed cans (namely the ATH-ES7), they have mediocre (meaning average) soundstage; the ES7 has just about none.

I'll have to listen to the Beyer DT150s - I haven't heard these yet. I'd be impressed to find a closed back better than the soundstage as the HD280s (which is better than the HD25Mark IIs in my view). Open headphones will get us an Antisocial Behaviour Order over here!

Quote:

Also, the HD25-II are the same headphones (soundwise) as the HD25. I think the only difference is the removable cord. (ask our resident Senn rep, John Willett

They're not the same headphones. I've owned the HD25SP, HD25 Mark I and HD25 Mark II. Sonically, dynamically and response rates are all superior on the latest HD25 Mark II over the earlier 2 models. The HD25 Mark I had removable cords too. Few people seem to upgrade the cables apart from the steel cable which is in the new HD25c Mark II version (same as the Mark II version exc. cable). The difference between Mark I and Mark II was in the upgrade of sound quality. It really is worth the extra money to plough it all in for the HD25 Mark II - pop, rock, dance, classical music - whatever.

Now to research that Beyer....

 

[shake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatique /img/forum/go_quote.gif The RP-22X are supposed to be RP-21's with enhanced bass from what I've read, but I haven't seen or heard them in person. I think the RP-21's bass is neutral enough--hyping it more would compromise the neutrality/accuracy of the sound. I believe in accuracy and neutrality, not hyped sound, just like how I prefer neutral and accurate color reproduction from my TV and display, with no color cast. Both are circumaural. They do not touch your ears--the pads go around your ears. But with the RP-21, it's donut shaped and not as comfortable as the M50, and also does not sound as accurate as the M50. If you can find the M50 for the same price as the RP-21, then it's a no-brainer--get the M50 instead.

I say screw neutrality, I want to feel the energy when I'm jammin!!!

Thanks for the info. I am currently seeing both the RP-21 and the m50 for the $99.99 shipped mark.

So the general consensus is that: es7, RP-21 < ATH-M50?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll have to listen to the Beyer DT150s - I haven't heard these yet. I'd be impressed to find a closed back better than the soundstage as the HD280s (which is better than the HD25Mark IIs in my view). Open headphones will get us an Antisocial Behaviour Order over here!

Is it the design of the driver or the enclosure that is responsible for the soundstage? Cause I could always rip the drivers from the M50 and put it into the HD280s

 

[Head_case]

Quote:

I could never understand the mentality that one should pair certain genres of music with certain sound devices. A good sound reproduction device should be able to reproduce any musical style to satisfactory level, and if not, it's time to upgrade.

Yes...me neither. This is why my HD25 Mark IIs are my main and only headphones now. Been through a few and got rid of them.

Oh hold on..
Quote:

Quote: I can't remember what the soundstage is like on the HD280 Pro, but to me, accurate and neutral frequency response is far more important than soundstage IMO. Even if the 280 has a better soundstage, its poor frequency response compared to the M50 and RP-21 still keeps it on the floor, with the M50 and RP-21's feet firmly planted on its neck and groin.

I dunno about you, but I listen to music with my ears, not my groin

When I want accurate and neutral frequency response, I listen through the HD25 Mark IIs *cough* *cough*.

Hmmm. The statement about the limited frequency response of the HD280 Pro isn't borne out in my experience.

Here's a comparison chart with the older Senn HD25 Mark I, M50 and ES7:

Bass response of the 280Pros look better than the M50s!

 

[shake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here's a comparison chart with the older Senn HD25 Mark I, M50 and ES7: Bass response of the 280Pros look better than the M50s!

¿What IS GOING ON!?!¿ First HD280's are bad, then they get kicked around by the ES7, then they're good for classical music, then they get beat up by the RP-21, then they get raped and impregnated by the M50s, and now, the bass is better?!?

Oh I see, bass on the HD280s is only better below.... ~15-20hz? The M50s look to have better bass around the more audible area ~50-200hz.

 

[Head_case]

Quote:

Is it the design of the driver or the enclosure that is responsible for the soundstage? Cause I could always rip the drivers from the M50 and put it into the HD280s

I must say, the Audio Technica M50s sound interesting - you might want to compare it with the HD280s. Is it a better headphone? For $99, it's not a very expensive trial and error thing

I'm not a very good technician but sometimes it's nice to have two different headphones just to get a more 'complete' picture of what a piece of music would listen to. A bit like having 6 different versions of Renegade by Heather Nova....or about 20 different versions of Debussy and Ravels String Quartets, because every friggin' new string quartet feels compelled to stamp their presence on the world by yet another repetitive and overplayed version of a string quartet, and makes us weaklings who love the score buy up every known version to milk it for its deeper insights.

Kind of bourgeois decadence, eh?! Yes - one set of headphones would be an ideal goal

PS - no graphic equalizer on the headphones either.

 

[Head_case]

Yeah ~ that's it! For vibey thump! thump! thump! 280 Pros are better. Prob. why all those Aiwa multi-CD changer deck players lurrrrrve the 280 Pros

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shake babies for exercise /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh I see, bass on the HD280s is only better below.... ~15-20hz?

You can't hear the bass in the region so it's useless. Look at how anemic it is in the region that actually give people the impression there's bass--in the 150Hz region.

To date, of all the headphones I've tested, the M50s are the only ones that can reproduce the kind of solid impact of bass that's similar to high-end reference monitors. I tested all my headphones against my trusty Klein + Hummel O300D's, and the M50 was the only one capable of both bass impact and detail. It was able to separate the solid thud of the kick drum from the drone of the bass notes better than even the HD650, which is much more expensive.

I have not heard the AT model mentioned, but that severe dip in the 5KHz region cannot be a good thing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shake babies for exercise /img/forum/go_quote.gif I say screw neutrality, I want to feel the energy when I'm jammin!!!

If you don't want to watch movies on a TV that has a green cast or red cast or has blown highlights or burned in shadows, then why would you want to listen to audio reproduction devices that has hyped or dipped frequency response in particular regions?

A neutral and accurate pair of sound reproduction device will be able to translate what the audio engineers intended you to hear far better than any colored piece of equipment.

A gigantic misconception among many audiophile/enthusiasts is that they think neutral and accurate = lifeless. If you have never heard high-end reference quality studio monitors or audiophile speakers, then you have no idea just how exciting neutral and accurate sounds. The excitement comes from the music itself and how the audio engineers recorded/mixed/mastered the music. It should not come from your audio devices. If the music has lots of exciting bass, then neutral and accurate devices will reproduce that bass as the audio engineer intended--no more, no less.

 

[Redo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pincher /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why do some of yall look down on the HD280s? Because, after spending the $$ for the Grado PS1000s....I have the right. /sarcasm

 

[shake]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lunatique /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can't hear the bass in the region so it's useless. Look at how anemic it is in the region that actually give people the impression there's bass--in the 150Hz region. If you don't want to watch movies on a TV that has a green cast or red cast or has blown highlights or burned in shadows, then why would you want to listen to audio reproduction devices that has hyped or dipped frequency response in particular regions?

I enjoy the rumble of bass though

. And maybe I'm into green and red women, who are you to judge?

. I kid. I really appreciate all the input you're giving.

 

[Lunatique]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shake babies for exercise /img/forum/go_quote.gif And maybe I'm into green and red women, who are you to judge? . I kid.

Let me guess--old worn out VHS tapes of second generation copy of ****? The tend to be more on the yellow/green side though.

 

[jageur272]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Head_case /img/forum/go_quote.gif They're not the same headphones. I've owned the HD25SP, HD25 Mark I and HD25 Mark II. Sonically, dynamically and response rates are all superior on the latest HD25 Mark II over the earlier 2 models. The HD25 Mark I had removable cords too. Few people seem to upgrade the cables apart from the steel cable which is in the new HD25c Mark II version (same as the Mark II version exc. cable). The difference between Mark I and Mark II was in the upgrade of sound quality. It really is worth the extra money to plough it all in for the HD25 Mark II - pop, rock, dance, classical music - whatever.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/has...2/#post6067185

 

[Head_case]

Not heard those yet - are you offering?

Unfortunately Bushguy's opinion on his failure to make any discernment between the Sennheiser HD25 Mark I and HD25 Mark IIs raises a few eyebrows, suggesting he is either tone deaf or has some other beef with Sennheiser.

Anecdotally, everyone who has listened through my Sennheiser HD25 Mark I and Mark IIs can discern a tautness and punch in the basslines of the Mark II over the Mark I, along with better instrument separation. The rest of the board attest to listeners who discern a substantial improvement: this is why we use the designation: Mark I or Mark II or similar designations. Just because 1 person can't find a difference, don't make him an authority on obliterating what others experience and hear.

I do realise that this is primarily a tecchie forum, rather than a music appreciation forum; perhaps theoretically, technically, the upgrade is meaningless. Aurally - there is a phenomenal difference for anyone who has grown used to listening the HD25 Mark I for 40 hours each week, 52 weeks a year for five years, and then moving onto the HD25 Mark IIs for the same amount of time and more over the past 2 years.

It's only an opinion btw.....try it for yourself and open up a can of Sennheisers...

 

[wallace]

Cor Blimey