[jawang]

They make "crappy" cables because cables make essentially no audible difference. People can argue all they want as far as whether cables make any difference whatsoever, but I don't see how you could possibly argue that a cable difference makes a bigger difference than an equivalent source, amp, or headphone upgrade.

I think recabling makes sense in exactly four situations:
1) the original cable breaks/fails or has durability issues
2) you simply like the physical appearance of a recable
3) you need a longer/shorter cable, or you need different connectors (i.e. XLR balanced)
4) you have 100% the best possible gear in the world. The best source, the best amp, the best speakers/headphones. You have absolutely nothing else you could possibly upgrade, but you have spare cash and you want to upgrade something. Now, at this point it might make sense to replace those radioshack cables for the purpose of improving sound quality.

 

[TheOtus]

A small piece of copper costs thousands? I think it´s expensive... And, it´s not like you´re going to get a quality conductor by melting and reshaping the basic copper. Obviously, for a large company, it cost nothing.

 

[nullstring]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif They make "crappy" cables because cables make essentially no audible difference. People can argue all they want as far as whether cables make any difference whatsoever, but I don't see how you could possibly argue that a cable difference makes a bigger difference than an equivalent source, amp, or headphone upgrade. I think recabling makes sense in exactly four situations: 1) the original cable breaks/fails or has durability issues 2) you simply like the physical appearance of a recable 3) you need a longer/shorter cable, or you need different connectors (i.e. XLR balanced) 4) you have 100% the best possible gear in the world. The best source, the best amp, the best speakers/headphones. You have absolutely nothing else you could possibly upgrade, but you have spare cash and you want to upgrade something. Now, at this point it might make sense to replace those radioshack cables for the purpose of improving sound quality.

they make a huge audible difference >_<

what would an "equivalent" upgrade of $20-30 be?

I am not saying it make sense in most situations, but there are a few headphones where the stock cable is just crap.

 

[jawang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nullstring /img/forum/go_quote.gif they make a huge audible difference >_< what would an "equivalent" upgrade of $20-30 be? I am not saying it make sense in most situations, but there are a few headphones where the stock cable is just crap.

Here are a few examples. $20-30 was the difference between an EMU0202 and a KECES DA-151 for me. It's also the difference between an X-head amp and a Shanling PH100 amp. It's also the difference between an hd595 and an hd600.

Also, I'd like to see what kind of recabling job you can get done for $20-30, even with DIY. It'll take at least $20 parts if you want high end materials, of course, it won't be cryo-treated or anything like that, which makes a huge difference too right?

Btw DIY is nice, but my time isn't free. If you recable for fun and as a hobby, that is COMPLETELY different and 100% worthwhile if you enjoy the process. If you recable purely for the purposes of improving sound, you might need to rethink your priorities

 

[nullstring]

lol, you examples are obviously bad =p

Where did you get the KECES DA-151 for $120?

or the HD600 at $220?
and the HD595 is obviously overpriced
anyway.. it's probably worth $100.

the cable is $1.10 a foot from markertek..
the connectors are like $4 or so.
And then some heatshrink..
shipping kills you.. bringing the price to $25 total..
You can get a soldering iron for ~$5

Course, if you make interconnects, DIY LOD's, etc, it brings the price per item way down, cause most of the costs are shipping and one-time tool costs.

The time isn't free argument I can agree with.. however, I doubt it takes more than 100 posts time to do all of this.

 

[Graphicism]

...For the same reason they don't use Dynamat, foam, cotton wool, blu-tak or any other cheap mod that improves the headphone... they use the bare-minimum to get the job done; in the case of Denon D5000s they spend a couple bucks using wood instead of plastic and charge hundreds more.

I would hazard a guess that a good cable costs more than constructing a headphone to manufactures... speakers aside you only need to look at Skullcandy and see what they charge for full size headphones to understand the markup ~ a sennheiser headband replacement costs more!

 

[leeperry]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think recabling makes sense in exactly four situations: 1) the original cable breaks/fails or has durability issues 2) you simply like the physical appearance of a recable 3) you need a longer/shorter cable, or you need different connectors (i.e. XLR balanced) 4) you have 100% the best possible gear in the world. The best source, the best amp, the best speakers/headphones. You have absolutely nothing else you could possibly upgrade

agreed! but where does the $600 ALO780 fit in this masterplan?

ALO Modified Ultrasone HFI-780 With 18AWG Cryo cable
Quote:

OMG! Just got my ALO 780s litterally minutes ago and have them on as I type. 'WOW' was the first word out of my mouth

a while ago, someone sneakily pointed out that most of the ppl that were initially blown away by the ALO780...often ended up selling it for half price a few weeks later

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif a good cable costs more than constructing a headphone

so copper is indeed very expensive.

 

[nullstring]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would hazard a guess that a good cable costs more than constructing a headphone to manufactures...

You can't look at it that way.

Most aftermarket cable offerings are niche are -way- overpriced.

The amount of money it would cost -them- to buy a different cable wouldn't be negligible, but it wouldn't break the bank.


I wouldn't be surprised if they try to make their headphones worse on purpose.
If the Denon D1001 was too close to the D2000, and the D2000 was too close to the D5000.. it would screw everything up..

Same thing with the hfi-780 and the edition series.

 

[Graphicism]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nullstring /img/forum/go_quote.gif I wouldn't be surprised if they try to make their headphones worse on purpose. If the Denon D1001 was too close to the D2000, and the D2000 was too close to the D5000.. it would screw everything up.. Same thing with the hfi-780 and the edition series.

So does recabeling a D2000 make it sound like a D5000? It has been said recabeling a HFI-780 makes it sound like an edition 8... I can only think 'they' compared it directly.

So while headphones are priced $50 - $250 - $500 at the manufactures end they all cost about the same (similar material and same build time) and purposely make the expensive ones sound better... of which we pull apart and better ourselves?

 

[jawang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nullstring /img/forum/go_quote.gif lol, you examples are obviously bad =p Where did you get the KECES DA-151 for $120? or the HD600 at $220? and the HD595 is obviously overpriced anyway.. it's probably worth $100. the cable is $1.10 a foot from markertek.. the connectors are like $4 or so. And then some heatshrink.. shipping kills you.. bringing the price to $25 total.. You can get a soldering iron for ~$5 Course, if you make interconnects, DIY LOD's, etc, it brings the price per item way down, cause most of the costs are shipping and one-time tool costs. The time isn't free argument I can agree with.. however, I doubt it takes more than 100 posts time to do all of this.

I don't consider recabling to be fun. I do find pleasure in listening to music and posting on forums though; so, that argument about post count isn't really relevant.

I found the keces for that price here on headfi, and the hd600 can be found at that price new.

Also, what leads you to believe that your recabling job using the generic parts you mentioned will lead to an improvement in sound quality? I would imagine that you would at least use vampire wire, bjc, or some other fairly high quality cable source, along neutrik or furutech plugs. All of which can be obtained roughly within budget the you mentioned. It's also funny how you skimp on the soldering kit when poor connections can easily nullify any advantage you get from recabling.

Additionally, despite my opinion on cables, I actually have recabled several headphones in the past (never heard an improvement in SQ), but no matter how hard I tried, I could never get my cables to look as aesthetically pleasing as professional builders or manufacturers can. If you actually want you recabling jobs to look good you are going to need to add a lot more to your bottom line, as well as your time investment.

Personally, I also don't like the idea of exposing myself to lead and other potentially hazardous materials. It's probably too small in quantity to matter, but I'd rather not bother considering the extremely minor benefit I get from dealing with it.

 

[Justin Uthadude]

Quote:

Why do so many headphones have crappy stock cables?

I'm tempted to look up the responses of those who implied it is because the companies too cheap and see if they've sold anything on our for sale forum and demanded a 3% paypal fee.

Know what I mean Verne?
.

 

[nullstring]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif Also, what leads you to believe that your recabling job using the generic parts you mentioned will lead to an improvement in sound quality? I would imagine that you would at least use vampire wire, bjc, or some other fairly high quality cable source, along neutrik or furutech plugs.

Cause I did it? And I did use Neutrik connectors.


If you've tried recabling before.. have you tried recabling your D2000? cause if you have that would certainly shut me up.

 

[jawang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by leeperry /img/forum/go_quote.gif agreed! but where does the $600 ALO780 fit in this masterplan?

I've never heard ALO780s. My understanding is that they do other mods besides just recabling. I guess it's similar to, say, Lawton Audio. Going on a tangent, I fully support Lawton Audio, but not their recabling jobs. I do think that LA2000/LA7000 "lite" versions (which can be had for $650/$1100 respectively if you skip cables) are very nice products though.

Honestly, if I had money, I wouldn't mind recabling with ALO purely due to the fact that their work looks amazing to me. I don't expect any change in SQ though

 

[jawang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nullstring /img/forum/go_quote.gif Cause I did it? And I did use Neutrik connectors.

Please show me where you can buy high end neutrik/furutech plugs for $4, or low gauge vampire wire/bjc for $1 a foot. They ran me quite a lot more than that when I bought them


Quote:

If you've tried recabling before.. have you tried recabling your D2000? cause if you have that would certainly shut me up.

Nope, I havent. But my D2000s are actually LA2000 "lite"s and I heard basically no difference between them and regular LA2000s using the same austrialian sheok cups (which I auditioned before buying my own pair). any differences would probably be due to slightly different dynamat placement, or etc.

I have recabled k701s and hd650s though, both of which are supposed to have major benefits from recabling, and I got absolutely nothing. I thought they sounded better at first, but after extended listening I realized it was probably just placebo


edit: to be completely honest though, my opinion on lawton audio isn't really set. I kind of jumped into the fray by buying LA7000s a while ago (sold them as you can see in my feedback), without ever listening to stock denons. however, I ordered a 2nd D2000 pair and some australian sheok cups recently which are still coming in. so I might have more to say on this after I compare the markl modded la2000s to the "bare" la2000s with only cups added.

 

[gbacic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif Copper is expensive. Most headphones are plastic with nary a metal part inside them. Copper is literally the only precious (or...semi-precious? not sure) metal inside the headphones, and the only real material cost to the manufacturer (plastic being cheap comparatively, I'd assume))

how about the Neodymium magnets used in the driver? Much more expensive than the copper used in a cable.

And they don't want to turn off possible normal buyers by putting an extra $400 dollars onto the headphone cost for a 'premium' cable. If you want a better cable, buy one.