[Duncan]

I've got my own theory on this... but, I want to hear yours...

My own theory is, that they sound fantastic at low volume, but fall apart very quickly when you turn them up loud...

I've been listening almost exclusively to my CD1700s over the past week, and when compared to the Senns, the Senns sounded just like a wall of treble... I was so disheartened!

But, listening to the Senns at a very modest, and much quieter (by my standards at least) volume... they sound fantastic, blow the Sonys out of the water...

To me, its all about control (or... lack of it)... whats your reasoning?

 

[Matthew-Spaltro]

You listen to the same headphone for too long you grow accustomed to that headphone so all your other headphones sound lifeless.

 

[joelongwood]

The veil.

 

[JaZZ]

The HD 600 doesn't accentuate the frequency extremes. It is the exact opposite of the Grados in this regard. It even hides them a bit: there's a certain lack of bass impact rock music lives up with (due to its slightly recessed mid and low bass), and the treble is muffled by the infamous veil pads (which nobody dares to remove). Even without them, the treble is not that energetic as the Grados', it's rounder, refined – not the highest virtue with rock. And I think the HD 600 critics are mostly rock fans. Its high qualification for classical because of its fine tone, its high resolution and its realistic soundstage (o.k., not really) doesn't compensate for this. BTW, I have to mention that the highs are very fast indeed, but not in a spectacular way. And personally I like it for rock, too.

JaZZ

 

[Geek]

I really don't know why people hate the high end sennheiser sound.

I don't even own the 580s or 600s and I think they're more than a step up from the 250-80s which I own or the 770-250s.

I can tolerate the dynamic peak of a symphony orchestra (120dB of loudness) and at volume levels not even approaching this, the beyers sound horribly harsh and distorted. The 580s sounded wonderful. I definitely prefer VERY LOW listening volumes and they sound even better respectively at those levels.

I can't explain it!

Cheers,
Geek

P.S.: One more thing, I tried the 580s for a few hours at a friend's house through reasonable (total of $1k) equipment. I'm a big fan of the headroom amp sound, this may have affected my audition since some people say headroom amps are designed around the senn sound although I find it to be superior now to the beyer 250s or 770s whicha re the only other high end cans i've tried.

 

[jpelg]

Quote:

I can't explain it!

I can. We builds 'em up, to takes 'em down. Simple as that. Some people don't know what they have in their hand, as they are too busy looking elsewhere for the 'holy grail'.

Most electronic stuff suffers from this syndrome of ours. Sad.

 

[wildmonkeysects]

That's why.

No, really, not specifically for the HD600s, but generally for the flavor, or dis-flavor of the month club, remember that our ear/brains have quite a bit of the acoustic equivalent of visual afterimage...the built in adaptive logic is looking for relative differences to the input stimulus and quickly adapts to a constant or consistent "flavor" as the reference by which others are judged. Maybe olfactory would be a better sense analogy, we adapt to smells over time, and I casually claim we adapt to various sonic colorations eqivalently. I also believe that we tend to jump on something different as better. The 7 week itch for headphones?

Hoo boy, that was a long paragraph saying nothing new...

With the disclaimer that I generally do not listen at high SPLs, here is what I do like about the HD600s in spite of it's faults: decent microdynamics and low listening fatigue factor. But, it is not what I would consider uber high end, more like entry level high end. Also would suggest that a lot of faults we attribute to it may well be part of the system upstream, cables, amps, etc. The top end gets really "chalky" (one person's chalky is another's veiled?) and the bottom end is kinda bloated without careful attention to what is feeding it from upstream.

Are we all still buds, with different strokes for different folks?

 

[bangraman]

I did like the sound of the HD600... It's just that for my use they're a bit impractical. Also the openness was covering up the ground loop hum on my HD82!

But as a 'flavour of the month' phone reco'd to anyone and everyone, it' not ideal... It's possibly the hardest phone I've had to work at for it to sound really good. It's OK for the hi-fi guys with dedicated amps to get excited about it... But recommending HD580's and HD600's to people with soundcards for example seems a bit perverse.

 

[john_jcb]

I think a good deal of the problems attributed to the HD580/600's are corrected in good part with proper amplification and a cable upgrade. I have listened to the 600's extensively through the Total Airhead then the Little with premium module and finally the Cosmic. I have heard them to a lesser degree through the Blockhead as well. I will exclude the Blockhead as it was with high end sources and interconnects. Each step up the line in amplification improved the sound of the 600's. IMO the veil is almost totally lifted with the Cosmic. The addition of either the Cardas or Equinox cables finishes the job albiet a little differently. To be fair I found the same improvements with AKG 401's as well (minus the cable mods).

 

[dd3mon]

I also agree that the 600's are at their best at low to moderate listening levels.. I think the sound falls apart when you crank them up. But I believe the reason behind this is a lack of a very powerful amp. On weaker amps/sources the tendency for the 600's to get thin and peaky on the high end is exagerrated, even just moderately loud levels can be annoying. However with an amp that has lots of power, this "good sound zone" expands a great deal upwards, allowing great music at much higher levels.. Try the 600's through even a budget, high-powered amp/receiver.. generally the headphone stage runs off the normal amp stage with resistors.. The sound at high levels is much improved over a weaker source (or at least it compares better to the lower level sound), although especially w/ cheap amps/headphone jacks the sound will definitely have it's faults, but those will be present at low levels as well.

This is one reason I think the prehead has received so much praise with the 600's, the high power output. I think the sennheisers compare very well to dynaudio speakers. They can sound very good with normal equipment, but feed them a huge amount of clean power (much more than you think they could ever need) and they blow the competition away

-dd3mon

 

[kelly]

The reason HD600 is losing favor right now (January 2003) is indeed due to the flavor-of-the-month phenomenon that is Head-Fi. Sennheiser fans should not be too upset since it was this same phenomenon that had everyone here purchasing them to start with.

Otherwise, much of the reason people on Head-Fi complain about any given headphone is the associated equipment. Some people think the HD600 is not capable of this or that simply because they've yet to hear it on a good source and amplifier. Even on a great source and amp, the HD600 does not achieve perfection but neither do any of the other headphones. I often find myself shaking my head at those who roll through various headphones without considering a better CD player or proper dedicated amp.

 

[markl]

Quote:

I think a good deal of the problems attributed to the HD580/600's are corrected in good part with proper amplification and a cable upgrade.

Ah, the time-honored, favorite mantra of the Senn apologist!

Mark

 

[bangraman]

I see a lot of profiles with 'headphones with potential' but being driven off receivers (and not the good ones), PC's and portable CD players.
But for most people I think headphones represent a more tangible investment than an amp or new source... especially as the amp/source combo needed to do full justice to for example the HD600 is at least 2x - 4x (depending on your country of domicile) their cost. But if you have an HD600, you can brag to your mates that you have 'the best headphone in the world' or whatnot. I'm sure that's part of the fallout of the 'HD600 mania'. And no matter how much you try to keep it out, a large part of feeling a headphone is good is psychological... the very reason that we get so many opinions about the same phones, especially if the reviewer in question hasn't owned too many others.
For this reason, I'm always more inclined to recommend the Audio-Technica ART series. Realistically speaking, with the base equipment that people are likely to have, they work well. They also work well with an amp if that's added later. Recently they've become a bit 'flavour of the month' and I'm inclined to say that compared to the HD600, that's a good thing for most semi-neophytes. True audiophiles who put time and effort (and money) into the HD600's will still be rewarded... But it may be time to say goodbye to pushing these and the HD580's at everyone.

 

[Zanth]

I don't own them...but I think I will soon. I thought I was pretty well finished...but I am actually looking forward to having the Senns for low level listening....a Prehead beside my bed...Ety's and HD600's on the night stand...maybe a Linn Classic as the frontend....

Sweet sweet sleep.

 

[williamgoody]

Markl, If I remember correctly, you have a tendency to cry aboout some of the equipment some of the members use to give their impressions of their headphones.

Are you trying to say you've (gasp) changed your view on all that?