[piesky]

Quote:

 

I probably worded that poorly. I meant that a Mac Pro compares more favorably to a name brand equivalent spec system like a Dell, HP, etc. DIY builds are still obviously cheaper than all of the above.
 
It's a shame a builder can't slip under the radar. It's not a service my company offers either, so I haven't even researched the legal ramifications. 

I don't think so. Spec for spec, Macs are at least 6 months behind the cutting edge in the PC world. Brand name builders are still cheaper than most macs.

 

[rarebear]

maverickronin,
Best answer I ever heard
 
Many say MACs are better than PCs I say if I spent $4,000 on my PC and had only one company make all the parts and only a few companies make software for a OS that doesnt change often I bet my PC would be rock solid too.. OH wait my $2,000 PC is rock solid

 

[happyxix]

Unless you are getting a Macbook, then there really no point in getting a mac tower. The all in ones in the monitor are great for saving space although you are paying heavily with your wallet.
 
Also most design people have the sense that you need macs to do everything in their field. A person I've talked to that was in film school swears by saying macs are more powerful. "Or else why does every film people use them?"
 
Can't really argue with these people are they are deadset on the notion apple is king for anything liberal art related so I laughed an told him he isn't helping their stereotype.
 
 
In the end Mac is just a PC in a different shell. If you really need the mac programs, build a hackintosh and save yourself buttloads of money.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

 
Life's too short to waste holding grudges. 

 

I'm not holding a grudge, I"m just moving on. I don't have anything against Chevys, or Windows. It's not personal. It's not a war. I'm just not making a choice that's mine to make.

 

So, Win7.  And I usually disable UAC, because I know every application/service/process on my computer, but I actually suggest others to do it themselves.  As long as you don't initiate the attack against yourself, it works out great.  Also, I find it amusing you only have to apply your password IF you have a password, when you install programs.  I hope OSX gets someone intelligent enough to penetrate via Safari, and just sideload the process, instead of 'installing'.

 

Huh? See, here's the thing: I don't know what a UAC is, don't know every application/service/process on my computer, don't even know what you mean by "initiate the attack against yourself," and, frankly, I don't want to know. I have a couple of degrees, but neither of them are in computer science, and if I'm not surfing the net or listening to music, I'd rather be doing something besides knowing my computer. YMMV.

 

On the Hackintosh thing, it does sound like a reasonable idea, but like the Chevy, I don't quite trust it. I would be ready to set it out at the curb if I found myself looking for answers to compatibility problems on the net or "building" anything. Again, I have absolutely no interest. If there's one I could just go buy, install OSX and run it with no more effort than is required to run OSX on my Mac, it would sound like a good idea. If not, I'll pass. 

 

I don't want to make chocolate muffins in my toaster. I have an oven.

 

All of this is a BIG YMMV. Much like the whole audiophile thing, there are many people who are audio enthusiasts -- the have stacks of components and tons of tweaks. They have spent hundreds of hours optimizing and synergizing and upgrading. I have a pair of active monitors with the preamp and the DAC built in. I plug my MacBook into them, and there is absolutely nothing left to do but play my thousands of lossless files from iTunes and enjoy the music. Not a tweak or an upgrade opportunity anywhere.

 

Thing is, I'm not an audio enthusiast or a computer enthusiast. I'm a music enthusiast. I'm not saying you can't be both, but I'm not both. So I take the most seamless path to the thing I care about. And yes, I gladly pay a premium to do so.

 

P

 

ON EDIT: I just re-read the last couple of pages and I'm reconsidering this whole thing. I used to say I'd be happy to drive a Jaguar if each one only had a mechanic in the trunk, and I think my next computer could be a Hackintosh if Hybrys agrees to live in the spare room in my house and be on call 24/7 to fix all that drivers and doohickes and whacks you guys are talking about that I don't understand, while  do something else. It still won't be quite as simple as just saying yes to an upgrade, having it download, and then run properly without any fiddling or worry, but it might be worth $500 or so, over the 4-5 years I use a laptop, if all I have to do is go take a nap or play my guitars while he fixes everything. I don't know what he's going to eat, though. And if I have to furnish his room, well, there goes my cost savings. These things get more complicated when you think them through. P

 

[ayz]

spend less time posting on internet forums and more time working on life and a career and then you won't have to worry about hackintoshing to save yourself 500 bucks

 

[Currawong]

Quote:

Quote:

I don't think so. Spec for spec, Macs are at least 6 months behind the cutting edge in the PC world. Brand name builders are still cheaper than most macs.

Apple doesn't care.  Apple's pro users don't care.  They don't buy the machines caring about whether they have the latest graphics chipsets in them or whatever.  It doesn't affect their work.  Having a machine that works as it is supposed to is what's important.  I understand what you're saying though.  But understand, you're projecting what you look for in a computer onto Macs. That means (like headphones!) it doesn't suit what you're after either.  There's no way I'd buy a Mac Pro either, by the way.  Just the same there's no way you'd buy a HP or similar pro-oriented Xeon tower.  In other words, you're criticising Macs when really what you're saying is that you wouldn't buy pro-level brand-name assembled computers, but feel it's best to build your own, and that represents value to you. It's simply that Apple sell the most well-known pro-oriented towers, so they are the biggest target for comments such as yours.

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

ON EDIT: I just re-read the last couple of pages and I'm reconsidering this whole thing. I used to say I'd be happy to drive a Jaguar if each one only had a mechanic in the trunk, and I think my next computer could be a Hackintosh if Hybrys agrees to live in the spare room in my house and be on call 24/7 to fix all that drivers and doohickes and whacks you guys are talking about that I don't understand, while  do something else. It still won't be quite as simple as just saying yes to an upgrade, having it download, and then run properly without any fiddling or worry, but it might be worth $500 or so, over the 4-5 years I use a laptop, if all I have to do is go take a nap or play my guitars while he fixes everything. I don't know what he's going to eat, though. And if I have to furnish his room, well, there goes my cost savings. These things get more complicated when you think them through. P

If you were to switch fully to a Hackintosh, I would happily put the system together, set it up for free, and be your free 24/7 phone support.  o.o  Hell, I already do that for anyone who buys a PC through me.
 
     Quote:

spend less time posting on internet forums and more time working on life and a career and then you won't have to worry about hackintoshing to save yourself 500 bucks

Right, so we're going back to that I totally can't afford it.  K, no.
 
Quote:

 
Apple doesn't care.  Apple's pro users don't care.  They don't buy the machines caring about whether they have the latest graphics chipsets in them or whatever.  It doesn't affect their work.  Having a machine that works as it is supposed to is what's important.  I understand what you're saying though.  But understand, you're projecting what you look for in a computer onto Macs. That means (like headphones!) it doesn't suit what you're after either.  There's no way I'd buy a Mac Pro either, by the way.  Just the same there's no way you'd buy a HP or similar pro-oriented Xeon tower.  In other words, you're criticising Macs when really what you're saying is that you wouldn't buy pro-level brand-name assembled computers, but feel it's best to build your own, and that represents value to you. It's simply that Apple sell the most well-known pro-oriented towers, so they are the biggest target for comments such as yours.

I actually know a few people who use Macs at home/professionally, and they usually complain about Apple lagging on hardware.  I remember it a while ago, where he was complaining heartily about how Apple SOMETIMES gets support for hardware, 6 months after the fact.  (It was regarding a Radeon video card...  3870?  Maybe 4870?)
 
That's actually a good comment about all other pro-level brand names.  In theory, it's true.  But for different reasons.  I don't sell into the whole 'server processors are better' dealio.  Nor do I (usually) sell into the whole 'workstation graphics are better.'  These are both because they cost so much more, and support so little extra.  The only thing you gain is 'better' support using them, and a few instructional advantages.
 
BUT, I heartily recommend low and mid end pre-assembled machines, and would buy one myself.  They don't often mark up the price as much as Apple, because they need to compete with other manufacturers.  If I had to buy a server-processor/workstation graphics tower, I'd probably buy from a manufacturer aswell.  Just not paying the Apple markup.
 
Edit: By the by, I just configured both a HP and a Dell.  The HP cost $2000 WITH A 25' MONITOR and the top-end AMD hexacore.  (Not quite the Xeon, but similar performance in threaded applications.)  And the Dell cost $2300 without a monitor, but with twice the RAM of the Mac Pro, and with a workstation card, that would absolutely demolish the GT 120 in 3d design/CAD.  I can't get a link for the Dell, but a link for the HP is incoming.  Also remember that these are CAD prices.  So $2300 vs $2800 base model, NOT $2500.
 
HP's full specs:
 
Total = $1950
 
AMD Phenom X6 1090T (3.2Ghz on all cores. 9MB cache, internal OCing up to 4.0GHz)
8GB 1333Mhz DDR3 RAM
1TB hard drive
1x ATI 5770
Blue-Ray+Lightscribe burner
Internal Wireless N/Bluetooth card.
USB 3.0 card.
HP 2509m 25" 16:9 full HD monitor
HP USB keyboard + mouse

 

[12thgear]

Quote:

I actually know a few people who use Macs at home/professionally, and they usually complain about Apple lagging on hardware.  I remember it a while ago, where he was complaining heartily about how Apple SOMETIMES gets support for hardware, 6 months after the fact.  (It was regarding a Radeon video card...  3870?  Maybe 4870?)
 
That's actually a good comment about all other pro-level brand names.  In theory, it's true.  But for different reasons.  I don't sell into the whole 'server processors are better' dealio.  Nor do I (usually) sell into the whole 'workstation graphics are better.'  These are both because they cost so much more, and support so little extra.  The only thing you gain is 'better' support using them, and a few instructional advantages.
 
BUT, I heartily recommend low and mid end pre-assembled machines, and would buy one myself.  They don't often mark up the price as much as Apple, because they need to compete with other manufacturers.  If I had to buy a server-processor/workstation graphics tower, I'd probably buy from a manufacturer aswell.  Just not paying the Apple markup.

 
When it comes to hardware lag, it's video cards, specifically, where their towers are frustrating. For my Quadro users, it seems to bother them less.
 
I wholeheartedly agree regarding regarding "workstation class CPUs and GPUs" for the vast, vast majority of users. For most people's needs (including me), a Core i7 and fast consumer GPU are going to be just as fast as a Xeon Workstation and a Quadro. A lot of people don't need a Xeon, but want an upgradeable Mac tower. It doesn't exist. That's the most compelling reason for a Mac enthusiast to build a hackintosh. There's a huge gap between the Mac mini and the Mac Pro. 

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

 
 

Quote:

If you were to switch fully to a Hackintosh, I would happily put the system together, set it up for free, and be your free 24/7 phone support.  o.o  Hell, I already do that for anyone who buys a PC through me.

 
​

When my wife's new Dell gets to that point where it won't get out of it's own way (seems to take about 18 months), I'll give you a call.
 
P
 

 

[Hybrys]

http://www.shopping.hp.com/webapp/shopping/load_configuration.do?destination=review&email_id=1640645&jumpid=in_r329_emailconfig
 
That's the HP.  If I was buying a desktop for productivity, that'd be it.
 
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/2009-desktop-cpu-charts-update-1/3DS-Max-2009,1380.html
 
i7 vs Phenom X6.  It clocks in just under the 920, but as you can see, you don't lose much, and it had a better price to performance ratio.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

spend less time posting on internet forums and more time working on life and a career and then you won't have to worry about hackintoshing to save yourself 500 bucks

See, unless you're a trust fund baby, or have some kind of job where your equivalent hourly wage is worth more than the time it would take you to do some basic research, then it would make sense to to do the research and save yourself some money.  Most people just don't have the option to decide to work some overtime this week to buy something nice.  I would bet the reason Hybrys can afford to buy a high end Mac is in large part because he budgets and spends wisely.  I he just went out and bought the thing without doing any research he wouldn't be budgeting and spending wisely, would he?
 
Do you mock someone for being too poor because they want to know if a pair of 'phones will suit them before they buy it?

 

[ayz]

You need to stop thinking mathematically. No, the equivalent hourly wage doesn't have to be more than whatever time it takes to do research and do it, although I'm guessing that it probably would come out that way anyways.
 
It's simply worth it for me to spend an additional $500 on a laptop that is well-built than shopping around for some plastic chasis crap with 2 hours of battery life and _THE_ perfect hardware configuration, and hackintoshing it, and having to worry about every apple update and constantly backing up everything.
 
People pay for peace of mind. I'm willing to bet insurance doesn't pay off for most people either, but they get it anyways. The simple point is that I make more than enough and have enough disposable income that I don't feel the need to trouble myself with all that crap. I certainly know how to hackintosh a PC, but I'm happy to spend a bit more on a mac if I want to run OSX just so I don't have to constantly worry about it.
 
I also don't look at price tags when I grocery shop, I just grab what I want and pay for it. I guess that's not thrifty enough for your tastes, but oh well.

 

[utdeep]

ayz,  don't bother with this thread.  These aren't the type of people who should be getting macs anyway.
 
For those people, please take my comment above as a compliment.

 

[Hybrys]

You two are nutty.
 
I have the income to do it.  That's not a problem.  Instead, I like to think about things critically, and decide intelligently.  It's $1500 less, not $500.  And I DO go into a grocery store, thinking critically about the prices of the meat and produce I'm getting.  I still get what I went in to get, and what I want, but I spend less money.
 
Also, if you for some reason think I'm not 'worthy' enough for a Mac, Mr. Pretentious 'utdeep', I'm sorry.  Maybe I should get one and sledgehammer it just to make you more mad.  It's kind of lolworthy that critical thinking is discouraged if you want to buy a Mac, though.

 

[maverickronin]

I shouldn't think about my budget mathematically?  How else are you supposed to think about numbers.