[grokit]

 
Quote:

 
Meh.  I worked with that for a while, but it's mostly a diagnostic thing.  It's neat that you do it, I just wouldn't for a permanent thing.  Flash drives wear down faster than SSD drives, and I'd imagine that kind of OS interaction and write/read/rewrite would take a major toll on the drive quickly.

 
Stupid question: How does a drive with no moving parts "wear down" faster than one that physically spins?

 

[racer_x124]

SSD not HDD.
 
If I recall correctly its because SSD is built to a higher standard than standard USB flash drives.

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

Stupid question: How does a drive with no moving parts "wear down" faster than one that physically spins?

Same reason RAM fails after a certain amount of use.  I forget exactly why, though, but SSD drives are made specifically to be less vulnerable to that issue, where as flash drives are not.
 
It's also unnecessary.  (IE: A 32GB eSATA flash drive is $100+.  You can get LOTS of 32GB disk drives for $100...  Or a single 1TB.)

 

[wmf]

"For me, I have an XBox for gaming.  In the end I chose it over building a PC for gaming, as it "just works" and I don't have to keep worrying about upgrades so I can play the latest games."
 
I still have a PC for gaming, but also own a PS3. dont really have many games for that console, and mainly just use it for bluray movies.
 
The thing is, ill never play a first person shooter on a console, as long as there is a keyboard/and mouse for the PC...  

 

[7H3L457H0P3]

 
 
Quote:

I find the iPad fascinating because it's so divisive. The device is very Apple. A lot of enthusiasts flat out hate it. It deviates so far from traditional computers, and it has severe technical limitations. But it does offer a very compelling user experience that a lot of everyday people enjoy using, and find easy to use. I personally get excited when technology gets "regular" people excited, and Apple has been doing a lot of that lately. I feel we should embrace that. And that leads me nicely into gaming.

 
Honesty, I had high hopes for the iPad, when I first heard about it I was hoping it would be a full fledged slate with keyboard and mouse support instead of just the keyboard. If apple had used a CLV or CULV (c2d or i3), thrown in a decent IGP from ATI/NVIDIA such as the 9400m or even a 3200m, and supported full OS X for a decent price ($800 max w/ suggested specs). I would have set aside the money to buy one.
 
Unfortunately that is not the case, if apple is listening, go out and make a good slate and I'll give it a shot. I like Unix, but as of late, Apple has not given me a reason to even consider switching platforms.
 
Quote:

Just a quick correction that the Mac mini is not $1000. The $1000 gets you a small workgroup server with dual hard drives and a full version of Snow Leopard Server. The standard mini did go up in price to $700, which I feel is too much. I still want a low end model at $500. I'll be keeping my current mini, thanks. 

 
Yeah, I should have been more clear. I'm assuming the main expense is the snow leopard. Because two hard drives don't cost an extra $300. 2 500 GB 7200 rpm 2.5'' HDD should cost $150 total for the 2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148374&cm_re=seagate_2.5_500_gb-_-22-148-374-_-Product; +$100 from 1 320 gb). It should be less since it's an upgrade. As far as the RAM I'm assuming it's DDR3 1066 because Apple goes out of its way to avoid telling you what you are really getting (4; 2 x 2 gb costs $110 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134786&cm_re=ddr3_1066-_-20-134-786-_-Product; +$50 from 2 GB). So unless Apple is using notebook components which cost more than desktop components you are getting ripped off. For the record Linux is better for servers and there is paid support teams if thats the issue.
 
I think Apple could be a great company if they would just sell at a reasonable price, but there's a demand so they toy with the economics. Higher demand = raise price.
 
 
 
Quote:

Is your SFF build a definite go? You'll have to start a new thread detailing the project. It will be fun to follow. Or if you're in one of the case mod forums, send us a link. 

 
 
As far as the mod is. I'm definitely going to be doing something, just not sure what that exactly is quite yet. I'm in the peculiar position of having tons of great ideas and the will and desire to go through and do them, but I lack the time and resources to make them all happen in the short term. So it's a bit of a juggling act to decide what to do now and what to postpone until I can afford it a few years down the road. I don't want to spend much more than $1000 for this mod which is why I am thoroughly researching it to make an informed decision. I've already torn through at least 5 concepts; usually I look around, find an idea, pick components based on specifications, power requirements, performance, dimensions, and price and build a few renders to see how I like it.
 
If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them. Possible new forum topic on a separate forum if anyone is interested. I've already toyed with the idea of building a desktop in a laptop form. My design mounted a 21.5'' monitor and full sized keyboard but was big and bulky. 3-4 in thick; I also encountered several issues such as how to do crossfire/sli since the gpu's were both horizontal and facing each other; using risers and custom PSU's; heating was also an issue and airflow.
 
Other ideas I toyed with included cloud computing gaming terminals, sff pc with external GPU (tether pcie x16 from mobo to side of chassis where it would connect to separate GPU housing. Think external graphics (ATI/NVIDIA, vidock and recently MSI have all considered this application but not implemented it satisfactorily).
 
I also thought of mounting monitors in a cube array and using Linux w/ Beryl; don't know why, but you know it would be cool. I also though it would be funny to build a PC in the shape of a GPU and do a Crysis themed mod. I was going to design it off of ASUS' ROG 5870 2 GB and write across it "CAN I RUN CRYSIS?" The mobo I was going to use was a mini-itx (6.7 x 6.7) so if that's my size limitation for the smallest dimension imagine how long the case would be . I was even considering throwing in a little 1337 here and there. I just want to do a mod that's clever, original, and feasible on a reasonable budget.
 
This mod is long term, I won't build till August at the earliest even though I have the money. I want to explore all my options. Right now I'm still working on booting halo/bf2142 on my eSATA HDD. I might even buy a SSD to throw in there. Just for fun on the side. I have everything I need here so no incurred cost.
 
But I plan on doing a proper log once I dive full into the mod. I'm just worried if I post it now it will get closed before August since it's still 2 months off.
 
 
7H3 L457 H0P3
Is your SFF build a definite go? You'll have to start a new thread detailing the project. It will be fun to follow. Or if you're in one of the case mod forums, send us a link. 
Is your SFF build a definite go? You'll have to start a new thread detailing the project. It will be fun to follow. Or if you're in one of the case mod forums, send us a link. 

 

[Currawong]

It's pretty clear that the people who don't like the idea of buying a Mac are focussed on the specifications.  The people who buy Macs are focussed on what they can DO with the computer.  If you go into an Apple Store (at least where I live) they have workshops showing people what you can DO with the software.  They don't go into hardware specs.  That is why I understand people who hate the iPad.  It's a computer that acts as a device as simply as your toaster, and allows the ordinary person the ability to DO things without having to worry about the hardware.
 
The Android vs. iPhone thing is a great example of this: The hardcore geeks love that it's open source, but to take a screenshot you have to go through a load of convoluted crap of enabling USB access then installing third party software.  On an iPhone you just press the home and power buttons at the same time. 

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

It's pretty clear that the people who don't like the idea of buying a Mac are focussed on the specifications.  The people who buy Macs are focussed on what they can DO with the computer.  If you go into an Apple Store (at least where I live) they have workshops showing people what you can DO with the software.  They don't go into hardware specs.  That is why I understand people who hate the iPad.  It's a computer that acts as a device as simply as your toaster, and allows the ordinary person the ability to DO things without having to worry about the hardware.
 
The Android vs. iPhone thing is a great example of this: The hardcore geeks love that it's open source, but to take a screenshot you have to go through a load of convoluted crap of enabling USB access then installing third party software.  On an iPhone you just press the home and power buttons at the same time. 

 
I think that's as good a summary of the Apple v Windows debate as I've read. All it misses is the "building a Hackintosh" part of this discussion. We could have skipped about 10 of the last 18 pages. Personally, I would consider a Hackintosh if I thought I could really go buy the right computer, install OSX and run it without any issues. I don't trust that possibility just yet.
 
Tim
 

 

[7H3L457H0P3]

 
Quote:

That's some expensive hardware.  Personally, I'd go with an Atom or C2D, and 1GB ram for a 'nettop'.  Plus, going with a 9600 GT is terrible, unless you already have the card.  A low profile GT 220 would be WAY better, and cheaper.

 
Yeah I know, you can actually build a quite nice rig for cheaper (extreme budget game build below:; 1 week old), but with SFF you pay more for the size and since it would have been a "PC Mini" it had to play games. I just wanted to prove a point, plus I'm a sucker for SFF PC's. The reason I chose the 9600 gt was the version I selected (Galaxy LP) was because it was low profile with no power pin. The gt 220 is worse (http://www.guruht.com/2009/11/leadtek-geforce-gt-220-1gb-vs-9500-gt.html: Note I realize it says 9500 gt just check the graphic benchmarks, the 9600 gt is there), but I could use a gt 240 although I might have to break out the saw to trim of the vga port for the extra clearance btw the gt 240 is just a rebranded slightly improved 9600 gt. 
 
Fig. 1. - Extreme Budget Build
 

Qty.	Product Description	Savings	Total Price
1	LG 22X DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model GH22LS50 LightScribe Support Item #:N82E16827136168 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$19.99
1	Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 250GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive Item #:N82E16822148451 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$44.99
1	SAPPHIRE Vapor-X Radeon HD 5750 100284VXL Video Card Item #:N82E16814102865 Return Policy: VGA Standard Return Policy	-$15.00 Instant	$154.99 $139.99
1	ASUS M4A785-M Micro ATX AMD Motherboard Item #:N82E16813131595 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy	-$15.00 Instant	$84.99 $69.99
1	AMD Athlon II X4 630 2.8GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor Item #:N82E16819103704 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$96.99
1	COOLER MASTER Elite 460 RS-460-PSAR-J3 460W Power Supply Item #:N82E16817171046 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy	-$10.00 Instant	$39.99 $29.99
1	Kingston HyperX 4GB (4 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Quad Kit Desktop Memory Item #:N82E16820134596 Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy		$96.99
Grand Total:	$498.93

N.B. I realize this build was cutting alot of corners, but it was hypothetical. I actually listed a $300 build to compare to consoles, but that's too far even for me. Case would be a mod.
 
Quote:

Meh.  I worked with that for a while, but it's mostly a diagnostic thing.  It's neat that you do it, I just wouldn't for a permanent thing.  Flash drives wear down faster than SSD drives, and I'd imagine that kind of OS interaction and write/read/rewrite would take a major toll on the drive quickly.

 
Yeah I thought about that. I'm booting from a HDD for now, but if I get the chance i might get a 2.5'' aluminum SATA II internal/usb 3.0 external enclosure and throw in a decent budget SSD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167025). 40 GB is the perfect size. furthermore since my current laptop doesn't support USB 3.0 I could get a PCIe x54 card adapter. Not sure how it would all work out. I'll have to check the transfer speeds, but a flash drive is easier to use because of the lesser power requirements.
 
HDD's drives wear down because of mechanical failure. SSD's and Flash fails from continuous read/write from what I've heard. It would be cheaper to get a drive which is why I might just stick with my current setup unless I upgrade to a SSD. (eSATA enclosure with 160 GB HDD (only 5400 rpm but it does the job). But the money would be better allocated to my mod.
 
And I'm still a headfi noob when it comes to headphone modding. Anyone have any experience with fabricating a headphone housing for drivers? It's on my long to do list.
 
It's 4 am so I think it's time for Daniel Kandi's can't smile mashup (Above & Beyond - Can't Sleep + Duderstadt - Smile). Always keeps me going, Trance - tested for up to 3 days without sleep; God help me if there is ever an ASOT broadcast longer than 3 days. You know what they say about engineers....they study hard...they party harder. To that end I'll going to go crash (sleep, nothing to do with my PC lol.
 
Quote:

The people who buy Macs are focussed on what they can DO with the computer

 
I would focus on what a Mac could do if they could do what I needed them to do, but unfortunately most engineering; from what I've seen and experienced, with the possible exception of maybe computer or electrical engineering is very heavily windows based (most comp sci guys use windows anyway). btw, apparently the guy who invented C++ is a prof at my school. EPIC WIN. l8r,
 
 
7H3 L457 H0P3

 

[Adda]

If I where to build a mini computer, I would definitely base it on one of these:
 
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=47555
 
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=43233
 
They have very low power consumption, so they can be put in to tiny cases with tiny coolers.

 

[piesky]

Hi guys. This is my first post.
 
First I never thought a Mac/PC debate will crop up on a sound forum. But it's been an interesting read so far.
 
Quote:

It's pretty clear that the people who don't like the idea of buying a Mac are focussed on the specifications.  The people who buy Macs are focussed on what they can DO with the computer.  If you go into an Apple Store (at least where I live) they have workshops showing people what you can DO with the software.  They don't go into hardware specs.  That is why I understand people who hate the iPad.  It's a computer that acts as a device as simply as your toaster, and allows the ordinary person the ability to DO things without having to worry about the hardware.

 

The Android vs. iPhone thing is a great example of this: The hardcore geeks love that it's open source, but to take a screenshot you have to go through a load of convoluted crap of enabling USB access then installing third party software.  On an iPhone you just press the home and power buttons at the same time. 

 
Regarding Iphone/Android, I'd say two things. One. The very same hardcore geeks who struggle with a screen shot are the very antithesis of the consumers who just want to be productive on the computer. These geeks are also frustrated enough to jailbreak the OS in order to customize their iphones. There are many things easier to do on Android (like keyboard options etc), and the speed of it's maturation, both OS and apps, is breathtaking. It's only a matter of time before Android overtakes Iphone OS as the best mobile environment to run smart phones.

 

[euphoracle]

Quote:

Here's a good question for you.  One thing I really didn't like about OSX was that, even when I 'closed' a program, it would still be running a background-type instance.  Is there a way to disable that functionality or anything like that?  How do you find 'snappiness' after hours of multiple application work?  (IE: 4 hours of work, 5+ applications opened then 'closed'.)
 
Also, Windows is actually more secure than OSX, it's been reported on many many times.  The problem is market share, the ratio of intelligent people owning OSX to the amount of... not so intelligent people using Windows, and some of the security principles in the TCP-IP implementation.  (Can't send netbios queries, right?)  If compared one to one, a professional security officer can exploit OSX faster than Windows.  The methods of penetration are just not as explored/documented.  I run with no Anti-Virus/Spyware/Firewall, and haven't had a problem in 10+ years.

You don't seem to understand how applications work on non-windows environments.  In windows, a window usually IS an application instance.  On OSX, a window is simply a front for your interaction.  The application itself runs without an interface.  Applications like IE or Word or Excel on windows use horrible hacks to 'emulate' having multiple windows open at the same time while running in the same application instance.  On OSX, that's by design.  If you want to close a window, that's fine in OSX.  The application remains running but your front of interaction has closed.  You can reopen it, or open a new one, or close it by quitting.
 
Consider this example:  On windows, say you want to edit 50 text files in notepad.  You will open 50 copies of notepad.  50 full applications, 50 processes.  On OSX, you open a single TextEdit and then multiple windows.  It's smarter, more efficient, and, although it takes a bit to get used to, it's more convenient.
 
Also running without antivirus/spyware/firewall is stupid.  Being a 'smart computer' doesn't prevent exploits.  It prevents user-error infection.  And OSX is more secure only because users don't run as privileged users by default, on windows they do.  Now with win7, microsoft has done a lot to fix this problem.  They're on par.  They each have security exploits and the overwhelming majority of them are due to either a) escalated privileges by default, or b) third party exploits.

 

[12thgear]

 
Quote:

 
 
Stupid question: How does a drive with no moving parts "wear down" faster than one that physically spins?

Well, there is memory wear in NAND, which I think most SSDs use. I think most of the better drives will remap data periodically to different blocks, so it's less of an issue. As for reliability in general, I remember speaking with a couple of data recovery folks and a they mentioned that traditional hard drives often fail at the firmware or electrical level, not usually mechanically. I wonder if SSDs are just as prone to firmware and electrical failure? 

 
Quote:

 
 
Yeah, I should have been more clear. I'm assuming the main expense is the snow leopard. Because two hard drives don't cost an extra $300. 2 500 GB 7200 rpm 2.5'' HDD should cost $150 total for the 2 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148374&cm_re=seagate_2.5_500_gb-_-22-148-374-_-Product; +$100 from 1 320 gb). It should be less since it's an upgrade. As far as the RAM I'm assuming it's DDR3 1066 because Apple goes out of its way to avoid telling you what you are really getting (4; 2 x 2 gb costs $110 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134786&cm_re=ddr3_1066-_-20-134-786-_-Product; +$50 from 2 GB). So unless Apple is using notebook components which cost more than desktop components you are getting ripped off. For the record Linux is better for servers and there is paid support teams if thats the issue.
Is your SFF build a definite go? You'll have to start a new thread detailing the project. It will be fun to follow. Or if you're in one of the case mod forums, send us a link. 
Is your SFF build a definite go? You'll have to start a new thread detailing the project. It will be fun to follow. Or if you're in one of the case mod forums, send us a link. 

You are correct that the cost of the Mac mini server is in the software. That's $500 right there. They do use notebook components in the mini. 2.5" HDs, slim optical drive, SO-DIMMS (DDR3). They've used DDR3 for a while now. 

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

It's pretty clear that the people who don't like the idea of buying a Mac are focussed on the specifications.  The people who buy Macs are focussed on what they can DO with the computer.  If you go into an Apple Store (at least where I live) they have workshops showing people what you can DO with the software.  They don't go into hardware specs.  That is why I understand people who hate the iPad.  It's a computer that acts as a device as simply as your toaster, and allows the ordinary person the ability to DO things without having to worry about the hardware.
 
This feels debatable and unjustified.  Yes, Macs come with more multimedia software out of the box (lolMicrosoftgotsuedforthatintheEU), but that doesn't mean that it can't do those things, and rather easily.
 
Windows is versatile, but makes you work for it.  Yes, not the best for the 'consumer' but, you could spend $1000 less, and get $1000 in classes and be better off, imo.
 
I hated the iPad because they made it so closed off.  Can't do USB-host, doesn't have a real OS, and you have to circumvent Apple's OS to do anything fun with it.  This obsession with the iPhone OS has to stop, or you're going to see it on laptops and desktops soon.  A closed OS, worse for everything, but few critically think about it.
 
The Android vs. iPhone thing is a great example of this: The hardcore geeks love that it's open source, but to take a screenshot you have to go through a load of convoluted crap of enabling USB access then installing third party software.  On an iPhone you just press the home and power buttons at the same time. 

 
That's one sightly underhanded example.  Android has it's problems but it's a more powerful platform than the locked-down iPhone.  Just because one rarely used function isn't as accessible YET, doesn't mean it never will be, or it's not as easy to use.

Quote:

Yeah I know, you can actually build a quite nice rig for cheaper (extreme budget game build below:; 1 week old), but with SFF you pay more for the size and since it would have been a "PC Mini" it had to play games. I just wanted to prove a point, plus I'm a sucker for SFF PC's. The reason I chose the 9600 gt was the version I selected (Galaxy LP) was because it was low profile with no power pin. The gt 220 is worse (http://www.guruht.com/2009/11/leadtek-geforce-gt-220-1gb-vs-9500-gt.html: Note I realize it says 9500 gt just check the graphic benchmarks, the 9600 gt is there), but I could use a gt 240 although I might have to break out the saw to trim of the vga port for the extra clearance btw the gt 240 is just a rebranded slightly improved 9600 gt. 
 
I know what they are, but, I'm talking cost.  Depending on the Resolution you want to run, the GT220 can outperform the 9600.  Look at Tom's Hardware charts, it actually lists the 8800 GT in first place.
 
Fig. 1. - Extreme Budget Build
 

Qty.	Product Description	Savings	Total Price
1	LG 22X DVD Burner - Bulk Black SATA Model GH22LS50 LightScribe Support Item #:N82E16827136168 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$19.99
1	Seagate Barracuda 7200.12 250GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Internal Hard Drive -Bare Drive Item #:N82E16822148451 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$44.99
1	SAPPHIRE Vapor-X Radeon HD 5750 100284VXL Video Card Item #:N82E16814102865 Return Policy: VGA Standard Return Policy	-$15.00 Instant	$154.99 $139.99
1	ASUS M4A785-M Micro ATX AMD Motherboard Item #:N82E16813131595 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy	-$15.00 Instant	$84.99 $69.99
1	AMD Athlon II X4 630 2.8GHz Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Processor Item #:N82E16819103704 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy		$96.99
1	COOLER MASTER Elite 460 RS-460-PSAR-J3 460W Power Supply Item #:N82E16817171046 Return Policy: Standard Return Policy	-$10.00 Instant	$39.99 $29.99
1	Kingston HyperX 4GB (4 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 1066 (PC2 8500) Quad Kit Desktop Memory Item #:N82E16820134596 Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy		$96.99
Grand Total:	$498.93

N.B. I realize this build was cutting alot of corners, but it was hypothetical. I actually listed a $300 build to compare to consoles, but that's too far even for me. Case would be a mod.
 
That's... not a cheap gaming setup...
 
Watch and learn:
 
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=53810&vpn=8250E%20%26%20K9N6PGM2-V2&manufacture=Bundle%20Deals&promoid=1016 ($80)
 
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=35726&vpn=KVR800D2N5%2F2G&manufacture=Kingston&promoid=1016  ($45)
 
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=49186&vpn=GV-R567OC-1GI&manufacture=Gigabyte&promoid=1016 ($90)
 
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=35528&vpn=CS206BK&manufacture=Logisys%20Computer ($40)
 
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=23266&vpn=WD5000AAKS&manufacture=Western%20Digital%20WD&promoid=1016 ($45)
 
~$300, case, PSU, mobo, CPU, video card, ram.  Cuts more corners, but it could play a LOT of modern games.  (To note, you can sometimes unlock those Athlon X3 CPUs to X4s, and OC them quite well on standard air cooling.  I could see it being a 2.2ghz X4 with little effort.)

Quote:

If I where to build a mini computer, I would definitely base it on one of these:
 
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=47555
 
http://ark.intel.com/Product.aspx?id=43233
 
They have very low power consumption, so they can be put in to tiny cases with tiny coolers.
 
Xeons aren't cost effective, and often need special mobos that might not come in mini-ITX or micro-ATX.  That's the only problem.

Quote:

You don't seem to understand how applications work on non-windows environments.  In windows, a window usually IS an application instance.  On OSX, a window is simply a front for your interaction.  The application itself runs without an interface.  Applications like IE or Word or Excel on windows use horrible hacks to 'emulate' having multiple windows open at the same time while running in the same application instance.  On OSX, that's by design.  If you want to close a window, that's fine in OSX.  The application remains running but your front of interaction has closed.  You can reopen it, or open a new one, or close it by quitting.  
Consider this example:  On windows, say you want to edit 50 text files in notepad.  You will open 50 copies of notepad.  50 full applications, 50 processes.  On OSX, you open a single TextEdit and then multiple windows.  It's smarter, more efficient, and, although it takes a bit to get used to, it's more convenient.
 
Wow, okay, that's in THEORY, for one.  And for two, should never ever be a problem.  For three, if I'm going with Hackintosh, this is totally irrelevant.
 
Also running without antivirus/spyware/firewall is stupid.  Being a 'smart computer' doesn't prevent exploits.  It prevents user-error infection.  And OSX is more secure only because users don't run as privileged users by default, on windows they do.  Now with win7, microsoft has done a lot to fix this problem.  They're on par.  They each have security exploits and the overwhelming majority of them are due to either a) escalated privileges by default, or b) third party exploits.
 
Well, maybe you're the stupid one.  I've run no system protection for 10 years, and still have had ZERO viruses.  (A few scares, and Panda Online scanner proved otherwise.)  Also, zero-day exploits are rarely implemented. The last one we saw was with PDFs.  I wouldn't open a random PDF that pops up anyway...
 
Infact, OSX is less secure, but not because of the users settings.  Just because UNIX has so many backdoors built into it from the beginning.  The latest OSX hacks were really easy to do, just breaking the drive browser or Safari.  Your evidence, anecdotal.  My evidence, easily google-able.

 

[euphoracle]

Quote:

Wow, okay, that's in THEORY, for one.  And for two, should never ever be a problem.  For three, if I'm going with Hackintosh, this is totally irrelevant.

 

Well, maybe you're the stupid one.  I've run no system protection for 10 years, and still have had ZERO viruses.  (A few scares, and Panda Online scanner proved otherwise.)  Also, zero-day exploits are rarely implemented. The last one we saw was with PDFs.  I wouldn't open a random PDF that pops up anyway...

 

Infact, OSX is less secure, but not because of the users settings.  Just because UNIX has so many backdoors built into it from the beginning.  The latest OSX hacks were really easy to do, just breaking the drive browser or Safari.  Your evidence, anecdotal.  My evidence, easily google-able.

 
Whoa there, don't get mad.  It's interesting that you claim that UNIX is insecure by design.  Windows was designed as a single-user environment.  It was NEVER designed to be used in a multi-user environment.  Unix was.  You're just straight up wrong here and I can't comprehend how you think what you're saying is true.
 
I won't even humour your other points lmao.

 

[Hybrys]

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoracle /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Whoa there, don't get mad.  It's interesting that you claim that UNIX is insecure by design.  Windows was designed as a single-user environment.  It was NEVER designed to be used in a multi-user environment.  Unix was.  You're just straight up wrong here and I can't comprehend how you think what you're saying is true.
 
I won't even humour your other points lmao.

The UNIX underlining of OSX is a little different than other UNIX interfaces, for one.  For two, UNIX was designed as a multi-user intranet OS originally.  Thus security protocols were not as much of a concern.
 
Look into it.  You can see that in 2006, 2007, and 2009, they plugged a few UNIX based holes; a way you could SSH into a privileged account remotely.  Some things like that are still accessible.
 
Also, you won't 'humour' my other points, because you have nothing to refute?  <_<  I'm sorry that you think everyone must have an antivirus and firewall.  You've fallen for the marketing ploy, instead of getting by with smart computing.  Maybe you're just not that good with computers...  It's okay, though.  Keep wasting CPU cycles on your anti-virus, and I'll keep having my superior performance and security.